NFL 2011

Nology5890 said:
I dunno what conference of college ball you watch regularly, Twinkie, but the Big Ten is pretty mistake-free.
I have to agree, if you're not watching the SEC or BigTen, then you are probably watching lower tier stuff that's not worth the time. It really beats bottom tier NFL filler though.

We get some good old-fashioned football out here, nothing ridiculous like the triple option or wishbone.
I don't even mind them with the right personnel. I love the full, power backfields, and the versatility it brings. Triple option take a sturdy QB to run, but one with good judgment can shred teams. It's basic assignment football, that's good stuff. Anything that includes fullbacks is OK by me.

I don't think the NFL pro sets have ever really defined what football is. And when they adopt the cutesy, gimmicky shit it usually ends up as an abomination (wildcat). If anything NFL is behind college when it comes to adopting new ideas, rules, formations, techniques etc.

Oh, I live in this little ol' nowhere college town called Chapel Hill and was born in WI. No real college teams here or there.

Don't patronize me, dude.
I think you're making his point, NC football teams, and the conferences they inhabit blow. Wisc had a nice year, but they are usually a "lost in the pack" kind of program due to being in a pretty harsh division.

C'mon dude, Duke Football? I'm not surprised you think it's sloppy. It's not worth watching at all.

Well I live in North Carolina and apparently people are creaming themselves over the fact the Panthers picked up Newton. I really don't see what is so special about him.
You answered your own question, I'm pretty sure he was drafted to boost interest more so than for his NFL readiness.
 
Cimmerian Nights said:
C'mon dude, Duke Football? I'm not surprised you think it's sloppy. It's not worth watching at all.

Oh, that's not good enough for you? Ok. I've never watched the Wolverines. I didn't watch every game the year Desmond Howard won the Heisman. And I've never lived in Boston or NYC. Never have I had the FUCKING BRILLIANT CULTURAL PHENONMENON called college football thrust in my face at any point in my life.

You guys are so lucky that the exclusive beams which shoot from a satellite down on earth seem to only hit a few spots on the map...which happen to be right where you live.

I can't fucking believe I've been "doing it wrong" this whole fucking time! Now excuse me while I go /wrists!
 
Cultness said:
Well I live in North Carolina and apparently people are creaming themselves over the fact the Panthers picked up Newton. I really don't see what is so special about him. If anything, he has size. I know they needed a quarterback, but Jimmy Clausen isn't the only reasons why the Panthers went 3-13.
I agree completely. I've got nothing against him, and maybe he'll prove me wrong, but the red flags people are seeing are real, not imaginary. I'm not sure why he's a significantly better NFL prospect than, say, Tebow. Overall athletic ability is nice to have, but it's the least important trait for a QB. Drafting him number one overall puts added pressure on whatever faults he has in his game.

My take on the Pats drafting is that they're good-not-great at assessing prospects, but they realize that, which is why they stockpile tons of picks. That way they can take a shotgun approach and select the best of what they pick. They also make up for it by re-imagining productive players out of other teams' castoffs. They've actually had a surprising number of high-round busts and underperformers over the past several years, though. Hilarious that they end up with 2 first-round picks and 2 second-round picks again next year.

Upon reflection, the Vikings draft makes no sense to me. They seem to think they're still close to being a good team instead of needing to rebuild the oldest roster in the NFL. Misjudged that one. Sure, they needed a QB, but they also needed a center, at least one o-tackle, and a corner. With the draft over, they still need a center, at least one o-tackle, and a corner.
 
UniversalWolf said:
I agree completely. I've got nothing against him, and maybe he'll prove me wrong, but the red flags people are seeing are real, not imaginary. I'm not sure why he's a significantly better NFL prospect than, say, Tebow.
He doesn't have a three-minute throwing motion, he has a much better arm and has shown the ability to actually make every throw.

Yeah, he's really really raw and it's a big, big risk. He'll take a lot of time to develop, and I don't know if he ever will.

But he's still better than Tebow.
 
TwinkieGorilla said:
Oh, I live in this little ol' nowhere college town called Chapel Hill and was born in WI. No real college teams here or there.

Don't patronize me, dude.

My apologies. Didn't realize that you were from a brother state. You should continue to keep up with your home state's fortunes, though; Bielema has kept the Badgers ideals alive of big-ass, bowling ball running backs and linemen that are carved of mountains. Tolzien wasn't half bad this last season, either.
 
Lolz.

Dude. I don't care about college ball. You couldn't even pay me to watch Tarheel basketball. That's how much I just. don't. care.
 
TwinkieGorilla said:
Oh, that's not good enough for you? Ok. I've never watched the Wolverines. I didn't watch every game the year Desmond Howard won the Heisman. And I've never lived in Boston or NYC. Never have I had the FUCKING BRILLIANT CULTURAL PHENONMENON called college football thrust in my face at any point in my life.
Nobody's disputing that, I'm just wondering when the last time you saw a game involving two top 10 teams (there is a vast distinction between college football in gnl. and elite college football). Desmond Howard was 20 years ago, and Div. I football is not played in NYC. So, I'm not sure how that supports your point. It's like saying 'I saw Jurassic Park when it came out and I live in a town with a lot of late-run movie theaters so I have a credible opinion on cinema.'
Nobody disputes that most college football is not worth watching, but to ignore elite college ball, especially top 10 matches (that's all I would really watch) is like throwing the baby out with the bath water. Whatever, your loss.

My take on the Pats drafting is that they're good-not-great at assessing prospects, but they realize that, which is why they stockpile tons of picks. That way they can take a shotgun approach and select the best of what they pick.
I'd agree with everything but the the part I underlined, Belichik is arrogant and headstrong. If he realizes it, he probably thinks he's smart enough to coach some scrub up or scheme around it, which isn't always realistic.
He's definitely great at draft day maneuvers, but hit-or-miss on the picks.

They also make up for it by re-imagining productive players out of other teams' castoffs.
This tends to fail more than it works though. But it's low risk.
For every Rodney Harrison, there's a whole shitload of Fred Taylor and Galloway types that bomb out.

Hilarious that they end up with 2 first-round picks and 2 second-round picks again next year.
Like I said, they could theoretically do the same thing every year and at worse just have additional 2nd, up until someone's worth burning that 1st rounder on.
Wait until you see what they trade Brady for in the last year of his contract...
 
Meh. If only Andrew Luck came out this year, I wouldn't question the Panthers pick. But yeah, the Pats can assess prospects. Devin McCourty and Pat Chung are prime examples. Don't forget Mayo and Spikes and to even an extent, Cunningham. I almost forgot Meriweather. So yeah, I don't think the Pats have trouble assessing prospects. :roll:
 
Cultness said:
Devin McCourty and Pat Chung are prime examples. Don't forget Mayo and Spikes and to even an extent, Cunningham. I almost forgot Meriweather. So yeah, I don't think the Pats have trouble assessing prospects. :roll:
Yeah, it's a nice, young defense, but they have a loooong way to go.
McCourty was one of those stealth picks Belichik catches shit for at the time (Mankins another one) that turned out to be an elite player, I'll give him that. Mayo was a very safe bet. Spikes and Cunningham have a lot to prove.
Meriweather is exactly what everybody thought - great talent, undisciplined knucklehead. Pretty good marksman though. I really hope they can sucker some team into trading for him, gotta work that fraud pro-bowl selection to your advantage. Brady too in a few years, which makes me like the Mallet pick more and more.

Maroney and Chad Jackson blew though. Should not pick RBs that high anyway, he knows that as a Parcells disciple. The more Belichik diverges from high rated picks like that and instead picks relative unknowns like McCourty, Mankins or Dowling, I tend to trust him more than Todd McShay.

I think teams like the Colts and Pats have also been hamstrung the last 10 years when deafting. When you win that many games year after year, you get screwed come draft time. Their 1st rounders are usually 25+ deep, so they never get a shot at the real blue-chippers ever.

Like, I hope that playoff win meant a lot to Seahawks fans, because they probably dropped 10 spots or more.
 
Cimmerian Nights said:
Cultness said:
Devin McCourty and Pat Chung are prime examples. Don't forget Mayo and Spikes and to even an extent, Cunningham. I almost forgot Meriweather. So yeah, I don't think the Pats have trouble assessing prospects. :roll:
Yeah, it's a nice, young defense, but they have a loooong way to go.
McCourty was one of those stealth picks Belichik catches shit for at the time (Mankins another one) that turned out to be an elite player, I'll give him that. Mayo was a very safe bet. Spikes and Cunningham have a lot to prove.
Meriweather is exactly what everybody thought - great talent, undisciplined knucklehead. Pretty good marksman though. I really hope they can sucker some team into trading for him, gotta work that fraud pro-bowl selection to your advantage. Brady too in a few years, which makes me like the Mallet pick more and more.

Maroney and Chad Jackson blew though. Should not pick RBs that high anyway, he knows that as a Parcells disciple. The more Belichik diverges from high rated picks like that and instead picks relative unknowns like McCourty, Mankins or Dowling, I tend to trust him more than Todd McShay.

I think teams like the Colts and Pats have also been hamstrung the last 10 years when deafting. When you win that many games year after year, you get screwed come draft time. Their 1st rounders are usually 25+ deep, so they never get a shot at the real blue-chippers ever.

Like, I hope that playoff win meant a lot to Seahawks fans, because they probably dropped 10 spots or more.
The Colts have nice little quiet drafts nobody thinks of anything but will come and bite someone in the ass. Joseph Addai was a godsend after James left, and Gonzalez fits perfectly into that offense. I'm trying to think of a few other ones, but none come to mind like those two.
 
Colts are pretty amazing, but they have their share of whiffs like everyone else. I respect Addai, but he doesn't quite fill the role of that Edgerin James, Marshall Faulk, Thurman Thomas-y complete, every down, ultra-prolific, robo-back types that Polian loves. It's a testament to how good Polian is that the team is almost completely home grown.
That Manning dude is pretty good at elevating the talent around him too, so they say.

Pitt is very similar in those regards, great at picking top talent, always picking at the end of the 1st, and almost completely homegrown. Neither team signs big FAs, but rather supply the rest of the league. It's inevitable when a Steelers LB's contract expires, other teams start lining up.

Giants too have those quietly competent drafts without much fanfare, but midseason you start asking yourself, where's this depth come from?

BTW, welcome to NMA brah.
 
Cimmerian Nights said:
Cultness said:
Devin McCourty and Pat Chung are prime examples. Don't forget Mayo and Spikes and to even an extent, Cunningham. I almost forgot Meriweather. So yeah, I don't think the Pats have trouble assessing prospects. :roll:
Maroney and Chad Jackson blew though.
Those are the guys I was most thinking of, along with Ben Watson, since he's on another team now. Watson had all kinds of hype at one time. He never quite lived up to it, but I guess he was serviceable.

The Pats have had nowhere near the poor draft performance of the Millen-Lions, but they miss pretty frequently. If Maroney and Chad Jackson had been hits instead of misses they might have added two or three more SBs by now.

The Mallett pick is very sound, I agree. Even if he's a complete bust, you're only out a 3rd. At that price it's a risk worth taking for sure.
 
Cimmerian Nights said:
Like, I hope that playoff win meant a lot to Seahawks fans, because they probably dropped 10 spots or more.

10? Well not by the one win. But by placing ourselves for the playoffs with a losing record? If I recall correctly, we dropped from 7 to 25.

Good fun.
 
UniversalWolf said:
Watson had all kinds of hype at one time. He never quite lived up to it, but I guess he was serviceable.
Browns leader in rec, yards and rec. TDs.
Watson was not so much of a bust as he was a Mike Mamula type. Champion of the combine type. Sky high wonderlick, freakish bench-press and speed etc. Superb at running around cones, sack race, all that combine shit that has no bearing. Stone hands.

The Pats have had nowhere near the poor draft performance of the Millen-Lions, but they miss pretty frequently.
I don't know if they miss more frequently than others, or that they are more scrutinized.
I mean, he's also drafted All Pros in the 1st in Wilfork, Seymour, Mayo, Mankins, McCourty, Ty Warren, and Mayo. All of them made All-Pro. Even Brandon Meriweather is merely a pro-bowler. Just stay away from the skill players early and we'll be OK. Again, consider where they've been drafting in the first round over the last 10 years.
Belichik's strength is in the later round guys and maneuverings.

To whiff on Chad Jackson sucks, to then recognize you fucked up and bring in Welker for a 2nd & 7th and Moss for a 4th makes up for it pretty well.

If Maroney and Chad Jackson had been hits instead of misses they might have added two or three more SBs by now.
Yeah, if they had one single serviceable WR in '06 they beat the Colts and slay the Bears with ease. I don't play that game with the Pats since they got some nice bounces on their first SB run. And it's hard to get mad at a team for not winning 5 or 6 SBs in a decade.
I tell you, drafting Bernard Pollard might've won another one though.

Brother None said:
Cimmerian Nights said:
Like, I hope that playoff win meant a lot to Seahawks fans, because they probably dropped 10 spots or more.

10? Well not by the one win. But by placing ourselves for the playoffs with a losing record? If I recall correctly, we dropped from 7 to 25.
Worse than I thought, so was it worth it?


Bledsoe Beats Tuna into Patriots HOF.:
Bledsoe this year's Pats Hall inductee.
Stand up mofo. Kind of a volume stat guy a though.
 
Cimmerian Nights said:
The Pats have had nowhere near the poor draft performance of the Millen-Lions, but they miss pretty frequently.
I don't know if they miss more frequently than others, or that they are more scrutinized.
About on par with the rest of the league, I'd say. Competent, but not exceptional. Nowhere near as bad as the worst franchises, obviously. Better at covering their deficiencies in other ways, certainly.

Try this out:

http://www.sporcle.com/games/detroitwhat22/millendraftpicks

Doesn't really tell the whole story though, since entire draft classes were bust wastelands for Millen.
 
Cimmerian Nights said:
Worse than I thought, so was it worth it?

Yes. Wouldn't have missed out on Beast Mode's run for the world. It may have delayed our rebuild another year, but it is what it is.
 
The tricky thing is, rebuilding isn't automatically successful. There's no guarantees. Bills have been rebuilding for 20 years.

I doubt we're getting a 16 game season at this point, and regardless of how many games there are, it's going to be sloppy, rusty, injury filled mess. Way to fuck up a good thing jerk-offs.
 
It's not really that simple. It's never really that simple. It's easy to blame owners but even players and player reps have recognized the last CBA deal was unsustainably player-friendly. Now both sides are just boxing it out for leverage. Trying to pick a good guy there is just silly, neither one is out for our interests.

As for what's up with it, well, right now we're in deadlock while waiting for the 8th Circuit court to make a ruling on the lockout. They seem to tend towards siding with the owners, which would give the owners major leverage in the negotiations.

Not that a lot of negotiations are happening. Bunch of assholes.
 
There's not much to pay attention to. Even if there were, it's like the old adage about making sausage, it's not pretty. And like anything under the jurisdiction of lawyers and politics in America, it's completely devolved into a game where no one's willing to reach across the aisle, make concessions or bargain in good faith. Representation for both sides panders to their base, common-sense and decency be damned. The public posturing is distasteful and self-destructive. I'm 100% right and I'll never concede that anything the other side says is reasonable. So we'll take the nuclear option and litigate it to the end. The American Way.

It's starting to get a lot more mainstream media coverage I've noticed (No football = more NPR for me, that's probably a good thing).

Stiff of all stiffs George Will had a decent piece in the paper today:
NFL owners, players both fumble
Although his Park Avenue office is as quiet as an empty stadium, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell sits atop a seething volcano of fans who will erupt if training camps do not open in July. Fans care nothing about the details of the labor dispute that threatens to keep stadiums empty into September and perhaps beyond: There were meetings between the two sides last week, but apparently there have been no formal negotiations since March 11; the court hearing this past Friday might — weeks from now — result in a decision that will restart negotiations. Even if, however, you think football is one of America's dispensable frills, the NFL's agony is a fascinating illustration of how things can spin out of control.

Explaining why the NFL — a hugely popular $9.3 billion enterprise — needs fixing, Goodell sounds paradoxical: Costs are growing faster than revenues, stadiums are the biggest costs, and they must be made better because most fans never enter them. Most NFL fans have never been to a game; more than 90 percent never or rarely go. They watch at home on wide-screen televisions, with super-slow-motion replays and close-ups of linebackers' collisions and cheerleaders' cleavages. The television experience will be diminished, Goodell says, if the stadiums are not full. And the parlous condition of state and municipal budgets means that taxpayers are resisting building them.

Under the previous agreement, owners took $1.3 billion of league revenues off the top before players got about 65 percent of the remainder. This time, owners began by demanding that another $1 billion of revenues — subsequently reduced to less than $400 million — be set aside for stadiums and other investments, before the players get their portion. But players, whose careers average about six years, according to the league, resist sacrificing earnings so the league can make long-term investments that might benefit players now in high school. Furthermore, because fans — especially season ticket holders — resent having to buy tickets for two home preseason games, the owners want to reduce those games from four to two, and lengthen the regular season from 16 to 18. Players say this means more work and risk of injury for less pay. Owners say players would get a smaller slice but of a bigger pie.

These are splittable differences. But the players union responded to the owners' lockout of its members by dissolving itself ("decertification"). This created a situation in which, without a collectively bargained agreement, all players would be free agents — independent contractors. So the players, whose pay and benefits increased 85 percent over the last 10 years, and who began by playing defense against the league's demands, now might threaten to unravel the draft, team salary caps and other arrangements by which a sports league contrives to produce competitive balance.

The owners, by decrying the current system, desperately want the union resurrected so they can bargain with it to preserve most of the system. Currently, the owners propose a salary cap of $141 million per team, meaning $4.51 billion in league-wide compensation. The players want $151 million, meaning $4.83 billion. It is ludicrous to risk even part of a season over so little.

Any labor dispute is a test of the two sides' pain thresholds. The owners think the players' serious pain will begin when they miss the first of their 17 paychecks. The owners may, however, be forgetting a pertinent fact: NFL players — pain is part of their job description — are NFL players because they are intensely competitive and hate to lose at anything. After decades in which economic sectors much larger and more essential than the NFL — e.g., the steel and automotive industries — were laid low by mismanaged labor relations, and as the role and rights of organized labor are being hotly debated, the NFL's current crackup suggests that both sides are slow learners.

I think Goodell's contention that the stadium experience needs to improve (and thus requires more funding) to draw a bigger audience is silly. He's trying to solve the problem the same way he's trying to solve the mandatory preseason games for season ticket holders.
It sounds like he wants every NFL team to have one of these luxury parks like the Cowboys or Yankees, with all the amenities that money can buy. His solution is to soak the consumer further by forcing them into something the majority of them probably don't care for or want, and has nothing to do with the central product itself. You know the next step is to curtail tailgating under some bullshit safety excuse, they're doing in the Meadowlands already.
It's gonna be just like Disneyworld.

The NFL is the best TV sport, it's perfect for it. It's really not the best live sporting event IMO. I don't think it's lack of franchise restaurants and thousand dollar, catered party suites that is keeping fans away.
 
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