Obsidian Announcement on 6th of December

[Norzan]

That post is far too vague to come into any solid conclusion. You can conclude stuff from that like thirty perks meaning you can only have a max of thirty perks with a big pool of perks to choose from or that there's only thirty perks in the game (i doubt it).

Let's not come to any conclusion without any solid, hard evidence and start condemning the game.

 

[nkchan16]

I'm just commenting on what's been posted, I don't know any more than you do. But it clearly isn't a system used by "every fucking RPG".

 

[Risewild]

Let's assume we have "strength" stat and 100 is the max. Wouldn't that suggest that you can only have 5 perks related to Strength in this case? Doesn't mean that you can't have perks for other stats but your strength related perks are limited with 5 perks.

I think what Norzan means is that you can pick pick from several perks with 20 points, not just "get 20 points and you will get this perk".

No stupid Lockpicking minigame +1
Silent Protagonist +1
More than 4 dialogue options +1
No stupid "wheel dialogue" options +1
Better HUD, including companions HP bar +1
Skill checks in dialogue +1
Stats(?) dependent dialogue choices +1
Characters that have nice dialogue and show personality +1
Characters look much better than Fallout 4 plastic faces +1
Reward player for successful skill checks +1
Not using Creation Engine, but Unreal Engine 4 +1
Flaws system +1
Player can pick which Flaws to get +1
Nice real time quest updates and objectives HUD +1
Enemies do not seem to be Bullet Sponges +1
Enemy information window +1
You can lie/bluff +1
You can double cross factions +1
I haven't seen an animal die and drop a rocket launcher yet +1


Just from this short gameplay video I can tell it is 500 times more RPG than Fallout 4, it also has better HUD, better character's looks and dialogue and rewards the player for it's build.


I haven't seen any RPG where that was made properly and didn't make me cringe. Usually makes me play solo, games with romances, because they are so badly made and represented. I doubt Obsidian would be able to make a worthwhile romance in their games...

EDIT: Norzan already said pretty much what I think about Romances in games.

I need to add to that list:
Optional Quest Objectives (even more than just one for some quests) +1

 

[Walpknut]

You could only get 15 perks in total in New Vegas, 25 in total with all DLCs. I doubt that with a requirements of 20 points on a stat that you will be able to even pick a perk every level, let alone maximize more than 2 or 3 stats per character.

Also still doesn't sound like a card stacking system where you get randomized cards and can equip and unequip perks like FO76 has, nor does it sound like the "Increase a Stat or pick a perk" System FO4 has. Just says that every 20 points on a Stat unlocks a new Perk, this can even mean that every 20 points on a stat you get a Perk point that lets you get a Perk.

 

[Norzan]

I think what Norzan means is that you can pick pick from several perks with 20 points, not just "get 20 oints and you will get this perk"

This is precisely what i meant. And this is the system used in Fallout 1, 2 and New Vegas.

 

[nkchan16]

This is precisely what i meant. And this is the system used in Fallout 1, 2 and New Vegas.

I know what you mean, you assume that you'll basically get generic skill points that you can distribute to various skills, but in Fallout you can't spend it on SPECIAL stats, in fact you can't even raise your stats without perks or other methods (implants etc). In this game you obviously can, if valcik's post is true.

one perk for every 20 points you put in one of the main attributes.

This quote suggests that by investing 20 pts into a particular stat, you either "unlock" a generic perk or a perk that is somehow tied to that particular stat. Sounds to me that it's more like the latter, because it wouldn't make any sense to raise your STR and then get a perk related to, say CHA. In either case the number of perks you can have is limited by your stats.

 

[Norzan]

In the Fallout games i mentioned, you invest into specific skills that go from 1 to 100. It's basically the same as this game, but this game has the attributes do this instead. And what if there's perks that require like 20 strength and 20 charisma? It doesn't say anywhere that these don't exist and that each perk is tied to a single attribute.

The current information is too little to come to any final conclusions. I'll continue this when we get more information.

 

[nkchan16]

And what if there's perks that require like 5 strength and 5 charisma?

That would make the game even more restrictive in terms of the number of perks you can have.

I have a feeling that this game may have a pretty low level cap, because from what I've heard, it'll be a relatively short game, about as long as "Senua's Sacrifice".

 

[Norzan]

Like how Fallout 1, 2 and New Vegas had then, where several perks were tied to specific requirements? The aformentioned Better Criticals that required three specific stats.

You seem to have just an hate boner for "restriction" when you think 10s characters are actual good design. I'm done with this argument.

 

[nkchan16]

Like how Fallout 1, 2 and New Vegas had then, where several perks were tied to specific requirements? The aformentioned Better Criticals that required three specific stats.

How many more posts do you need to realize that's not the same thing? Are you a bit dense or something?

You seem to have just an hate boner for "restriction" when you think 10s characters are actual good design. I'm done with this argument.

Whatever.

 

[Chud]

Games that empower players are ultimately boring, a god mode of sorts, which takes away much of the challenge in a game. Me personally, I hate games that lead to total empowerment.

The Outer Worlds Flaws system is very reminiscent to traits from NV and Wasteland 2, in that the player gets a varied boost and negative to enrich the playthrough--a strength and weakness for a more unique experience. It encourages multiple playthroughs, as does skill and/or level caps. It forces the player to make the best out of a limited build. That's a good thing. That's how you get snipers, medics, melee builds, conversationalists, and so on. It adds flavor and roleplaying to the game.

Bethesda screws that up by going along Tod Howard's empowerment fantasy. Who cares about builds, when in the end a player becomes king of all. There's less risk vs. reward doing this playstyle, and it removes quite a bit of difficulty from the late game. Hell, we all saw what happened in Fallout 4 when they tossed a minigun and power armor at low levels.

 

[Risewild]

You could only get 15 perks in total in New Vegas, 25 in total with all DLCs. I doubt that with a requirements of 20 points on a stat that you will be able to even pick a perk every level, let alone maximize more than 2 or 3 stats per character.

Also still doesn't sound like a card stacking system where you get randomized cards and can equip and unequip perks like FO76 has, nor does it sound like the "Increase a Stat or pick a perk" System FO4 has. Just says that every 20 points on a Stat unlocks a new Perk, this can even mean that every 20 points on a stat you get a Perk point that lets you get a Perk.

In the Fallout games i mentioned, you invest into specific skills that go from 1 to 100. It's basically the same as this game, but this game has the attributes do this instead. And what if there's perks that require like 20 strength and 20 charisma? It doesn't say anywhere that these don't exist and that each perk is tied to a single attribute.

The current information is too little to come to any final conclusions. I'll continue this when we get more information.

I'm posting just to jump on the perk speculation.

I just thought of something. I don't think we will get a perk per every 20 points in a stat we add to the character. I think we will get 1 perk point every time we increase a stat. So it is not a perk per 20 specific stat increase, but 20 points when you increase your stats 20 times.

Why do I think this? Because on that gameplay video the player could pick that flaw and the benefit would be that the player would gain one Perk Point.
So the way I see it, when you increase any stat, you will gain 1 perk point, when you have 20 perk points, you can pick a perk from a list.

It's like classic fallout games, but instead of every 3 levels, you gain a perk every 20 perk points. I bet there will be other stuff that will add perk points besides increasing a stat (we already saw that flaw adds 1 if the player picks it). I wonder if all flaws will add something negative and increase perk points as the positive.

I just read an article that explains how it works and it is a perk per 20 points in a specific ability. And that perk point you gain from flaws is a full perk. You get a flaw, you can pick a new perk.

EDIT: Someone just posted this in a different forum:

I believe companions also increase your own inventory size. No more needing to stop and trade/offload items on your companions. Their carry weight is factored into your own.

If this is true, that is pretty good.

 

[Cobra Commander]

DOn´t think so.

This is just too much flaws if you want buy one single perk with just this mechanic, making it very uninteresting.

 

[Walpknut]

You take a penalty based on your failures for the chance of getting a perk, I'll say that is very interesting and has the potential of making each player's character completely unique from each other, even if they are going for the same Skills and perks.

 

[Cobra Commander]

You take a penalty based on your failures for the chance of getting a perk, I'll say that is very interesting and has the potential of making each player's character completely unique from each other, even if they are going for the same Skills and perks.

Yes, it is. But not when you have to pick 20 of them for just one perk =/
Unless some flaws gives more points, then it´s ok.

 

[Walpknut]

If they give you more than 1 perk point it would be too broken, the way to balance it is that if you suck too much and rely on the Flaws to get perks you end up with a character with a chronic fear of everything, penalties to absolutely everything to the point where you can gimp your build completely, making those perks you are farming by sucking be basically worthless. Taking a Flaw would be a high risk high reward scenario and, depending on how they work, they could even be the basis for challenge runs where you always have to take every flaw that you happen to "unlock" yes or yes, and live with them.

I wonder if a scenario for getting a Flaw is that you deliberatedly solve all your quests in a completely non-lethal way and you get a Flaw that makes it so different combat skills get imparied and you use it to create a completely support protagonist that relies on it's team but who can give them morale buffs (the IGN article mentioned "Leader skills").

 

[Risewild]

DOn´t think so.

This is just too much flaws if you want buy one single perk with just this mechanic, making it very uninteresting.

You take a penalty based on your failures for the chance of getting a perk, I'll say that is very interesting and has the potential of making each player's character completely unique from each other, even if they are going for the same Skills and perks.

I was wrong. I just found more in-depth information about Flaws and Perks and it is a perk per 20 points in a specific ability. And that perk point you gain from flaws is a full perk. You get a flaw, you can pick a new perk.

 

[Cobra Commander]

If they give you more than 1 perk point it would be too broken, the way to balance it is that if you suck too much and rely on the Flaws to get perks you end up with a character with a chronic fear of everything, penalties to absolutely everything to the point where you can gimp your build completely, making those perks you are farming by sucking be basically worthless.

JESUS MAN, but that's what I'm talking about all this time

Maybe is my poor english.

 

[Risewild]

Here is the information:

With every 20 points sunk into a particular skill you get a new perk. For example, building into stealth makes you hard to see, but drop 20 points into the Stealth skill and now you’re doing more damage when in sneaking. These bonuses happen every 20 points all the way up to 100, so there’s some incentive for committing to a path.

These perks seem to just be bonuses for specific skills (I was right on NMA Discord though, Obsidian stole my idea, that I use on my RPG system, of getting a "skill talent" every 5 points invested in a skill ).

 

[Walpknut]

JESUS MAN, but that's what I'm talking about all this time

Maybe is my poor english.

I think there might a misunderstandment.
Flaws wouldn't up your attributes, they would give you a Perk point straight up. So you will be able to pick a Perk from the tree without having to put points in a skill and they wouldn't replace leveling up that skill. You wouldn't need to get 20 flaws to get 1 perk, it would just give you the perk point everytime you get a flaw.