Official Canon V. Your Personal Fanon

which games or resources do you not consider canon or only semi-canon?


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Everytime I see that retarded "Children of Atom" shit get mentioned I want to throw myself off a cliff.
I thought it was one of the few good ideas fallout 3 had. It didn't feel fallout-y so much as wasteland-y but I'd have loved to see it expanded upon in the base game. I hate that they're in fallout 4 though.
 
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I thought it was one of the few good ideas fallout 3 had. It didn't feel fallout-y so much as wasteland-y but I'd have loved to see it explained upon in the base game. I hate that they're in fallout 4 though.

They went from a mildly interesting if predictable slice of post-apocalyptic society to a generic stock cult.

While I thought that a bunch of people worshipping the bomb was possibly one of the worst examples of uncreativity Bethesda ever devised, it was a likely outcome and pretty much inoffensive; they don't offer any quests and keep to themselves, so I'm not sure what their purpose was but the less Fallout 3 tries to shove nonsensical shite down my throat, the better.

I only started finding it interesting when I discovered that they were peaceful; there's such a ridiculous bias against religion in video games that finding one that is genuinely inoffensive is pretty much a treat.

They're enemies now, though, so fucking whatever I guess.
 
the idea of growing in vault and grow attached to it is very well executed than someone that lives in the pre-war as an ex soldier. compared to Dad, i cant even attached to the spouse character in fallout 4. at least in fallout 3, even though its forced narrative, bethesda have done pretty good enough to give proper exposition why you should care for your home (vault). you watch your character grow in there as a child, living through your 10th birthday, and so on. heck, even the epilogue in fallout 3 just make me shed tear as i watch those photograph of lone wanderer and his dad . Still, that was before i touched the rpg genre in general (the fallout 3 was my first ever computer RPG also)
 
My main issue with Fallout 3's intro is how fucking long it is. Forcing you to be from a Vault isn't unprecedented nor is it particularly problematic; it's still vague enough to allow comfortable development of your own character. Abysmal writing aside, the prologue even has a few moments to define your character, which is a nice touch.

But it's just too long.
 
My main issue with Fallout 3's intro is how fucking long it is. Forcing you to be from a Vault isn't unprecedented nor is it particularly problematic; it's still vague enough to allow comfortable development of your own character. Abysmal writing aside, the prologue even has a few moments to define your character, which is a nice touch.

But it's just too long.
its worth it if they are gonna goin to "defined" protagonist approach. if you dont, then it just would be like fallout 4.
yes, forced as it is, its a still allowing the tabula rasa character for you to develop.
 
I just don't see the value in thinking of Fallout 3 and 4 as canon. They add nothing to the series, both are creatively bankrupt and neither are particularly fun games to play.
 
Caesar actually comments on it, saying that Brotherhood Scribes they captured in their Eastern territories didn't even know their own founder (hence the "they don't care about their own history" prejudice).
Interesting. I like that theory. I always just figured that less-knowledgeable wastelanders saw 'vault' as a word to be applied to any bunker, but that gives some interesting insight into the ideology of the Midwestern Brotherhood.
 
I just don't see the value in thinking of Fallout 3 and 4 as canon. They add nothing to the series, both are creatively bankrupt and neither are particularly fun games to play.
I disagree about the creativity thing. I think that F3 and F4 have plenty ideas that are good in theory, but since it's Bethesda, they're executed pisspoorly.

Like weapon degradation, it sounds interesting on paper but it's flawed with the whole "your high end weapon is no better than average weapons when at low quality" thing. The synths too, if they had some more details about them. I believe that the whole synth thing has potential in the world of Fallout providing the Institute got more background info in and especially since I personally found the Replicated Man quest to be interesting (and while I can't speak for everyone, it does seem TRM is one of the few better recieved quests in F3).
 
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Interesting. I like that theory. I always just figured that less-knowledgeable wastelanders saw 'vault' as a word to be applied to any bunker, but that gives some interesting insight into the ideology of the Midwestern Brotherhood.
I like to think that they're the bad guys of the BOS, and are interested in expansion where the others want to sit tight.
 
I like to think that they're the bad guys of the BOS, and are interested in expansion where the others want to sit tight.

The Midwestern BoS would honestly make for a great villainous faction (as they were intended to be, after all). They're ruthless militant expansionists who, having learned from their predecessor's mistakes, now not only welcome others into the fold but depending on your ending they will force them to.

Also depending on your ending they may or may not put mutants in camps and they may or may not possess the greatest manufacturing facility and weapons arsenal in the US, as well as a sentient supercomputer powered by a council of human brains and an army of machines.

But what is really interesting to me is that the Midwestern BoS don't simply engage in military strategy and combat, like the Californian Brotherhood did or even the DC chapter. No, they have their own CIA: the Inquisitors, sadistic interrogators and agents that act as the Midwestern BoS's personal Gestapo, as well as regular police force and spies.

Considering that by the end of Tactics their territories reach from Chicago all the way to the Cheyenne mountain complex, if the ending permits it wouldn't be far-fetched to assume that they've sent agents into the Legion, the NCR and beyond and nobody is any the wiser.

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A lot of their presumed potential is based on the assumption that one of two specific endings has happened: a member of the player's team has sacrificed themselves with either good karma or bad karma.

I think it's probably the latter.

In the first one, the Midwestern BoS basically stamp out racism forever, create fair laws and usher in a post-apocalyptic utopia within their borders. The wealth of technology afforded to them by Vault 0 is used to help their civilians and other such nonsense; it's your stock "best possible outcome" ending.

The second has the Calculator become truly complete for the very first time; it allies itself with the Midwestern BoS, but chooses not to officially join its ranks. Eventually, it secretly murders all of its Elders and takes direct control, ushering in an age where efficiency is seen as their top priority. Racism is made illegal not so much because it's wrong, but because mutants are valuable resources; by the time we leave the Calculator, it is considering the best possible way to approach its inevitable contact with the original Brotherhood.

The remaining two endings have the Midwestern Brotherhood fight either the Mutant Liberation Front in response to their camps or various civilian uprisings and rebellious factions following their weakening. Either way, they lose a lot of territories.

Caesar's comment tells us that the Midwestern BoS still has a foothold as far West as Colorado, excluding General Barnacky's ending and the destruction of the Calculator; after that, it becomes more speculative.

Fallout 3 tells us that the Chicago chapter has not only established a recruitment policy but that even mutants are allowed, which is something that occurs in either ending. They also mention them having come into some trouble last they've heard, but that doesn't tell us much; it could be referring to the assassination of their elders, but that was years ago and it seems unlikely.

However, the DC BoS also tells us that the Chicago chapter has refused Lost Hills' authority and is, at best, a reluctant ally to the original Brotherhood. They also mention them 'falling off the radar', meaning that they are no longer reporting in.

Though it's not conclusive proof, the 'Good' ending to Tactics has the Midwestern BoS prepare for a diplomatic meeting and shows them to be willing to work with the Californian BoS, while the 'Bad' ending tells us that the Calculator is wary of them and is not going out of its way to contact them.

Though it is entirely possible that diplomatic relations simply fell apart, it seems more likely that the Calculator simply cut off contact; after all, it has a precedent for refusing to accept the Brotherhood's authority in favour of simply remaining their ally and if history is anything to go by, it's probably planning their destruction.

TL;DR the Midwestern BoS would make cool villains and the canon ending is probably the poor karma "player squadmate becomes the Calculator" one
 
Imagine the Midwestern Brotherhood attempting to expand into the West Coast, could be a cool idea for a game or RPG setting.

I feel like an expansionist militarized BoS secretly controlled by an AI wouldve been a great for *good* fallout 4, or a new vegas style spin off.
 
I feel like an expansionist militarized BoS secretly controlled by an AI wouldve been a great for *good* fallout 4, or a new vegas style spin off.
It would be interesting to see how the post-War America would handle a Brotherhood of Steel that successfully adapted to the changing world around them with said AI in control and how territories under their rule would function.

Would it be similar to the Legion with strong infrastructure but appearing barbaric and cruel to the current residents of the wastelands? How will the tech and its development diverge due to the prevalence of cyborgs in the Calculator's faction? How would the people under their rule view their regime as? Would they be attempting to simply exterminate normal biological humanoids or subjugate them under their regime?

The possibilities are tremendous and are worth exploring.
 
It would be interesting to see how the post-War America would handle a Brotherhood of Steel that successfully adapted to the changing world around them with said AI in control and how territories under their rule would function.

Would it be similar to the Legion with strong infrastructure but appearing barbaric and cruel to the current residents of the wastelands? How will the tech and its development diverge due to the prevalence of cyborgs in the Calculator's faction? How would the people under their rule view their regime as? Would they be attempting to simply exterminate normal biological humanoids or subjugate them under their regime?

The possibilities are tremendous and are worth exploring.

I smell potential for a quest mod. Because god knows nobody at bethesda, or anyone else in an official capacity, is going to make the most of this interesting premise.

On a sidenote, I honestly pity the legion once this version of the Midwestern bos decides to push west.
 
I like the AI because it seems like a truly threatening and insurmountable adversary. A being of pure consciousness possessed of godlike intelligence that just doesnt give a fuck terrifies me. President eden was a wasted opportunity.
Human foolishness and brutality seems better to me.
 
Human foolishness and brutality seems better to me.

Explains your profile pic.

Jokes aside, youre not wrong. Human foolishness and brutality can certainly make for some good stories. I just think that we've already seen a lot of that in the Fallout universe and have seen very few interesting examinations of true AI and the wider implications of it. That seems strange to me.

But, hey, that's just my opinion about a hypothetical interpretation of a faction who some dont even believe is canon. Whatever floats your boat, homie.
 
Explains your profile pic.

Jokes aside, youre not wrong. Human foolishness and brutality can certainly make for some good stories. I just think that we've already seen a lot of that in the Fallout universe and have seen very few interesting examinations of true AI and the wider implications of it. That seems strange to me.

But, hey, that's just my opinion about a hypothetical interpretation of a faction who some dont even believe is canon. Whatever floats your boat, homie.
I don't like AI, to me it's boring in comparison to the unpredictability Humans bring. I mean seriously, can you believe an AI forming the Legion?
 
I think it matters what kind of AI youre talking about.

When I think of a true AI, I basically imagine it as a consciousness with all the same psychological depth of a person that exists entitelt in cyberspace, lacks all moral compunction (so pretty much a sociopath) and has processing power upwards of hundreds or thousands of times greater than a human being. You can never surprise or outmanouver it because in the time it takes for you to get out a 12 second sentence, its had an equivalent time of 12000 seconds to take everything in and figure out exactly how its going to respond.

If you then take this extremely intelligent sociopathic entity and give it the resources of the Midwestern Brotherhood, you end up with a nightmare that neither the legion, ncr or house have an answer to.

Ive yet to see this interpretation of AI in fallout and I personally think that it would be awesome. But, as I have already pointed out in another thread, I grew up watching way too much Terminator and it probably coloured my thinking haha
 
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