Sn1p3r187
Carolinian Shaolin Monk
Ah okay. I learned my Spanish in school and our teacher was a little too formal and that rubbed off on me there. Sorry bout that.
Opinions on Fallout 4?
- Thread starter Sn1p3r187
- Start date
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
Nah don't worry, just giving pointers, sorry if it came off as rude or something.
Sn1p3r187
Carolinian Shaolin Monk
Ah it's cool. But back to Fallout 4. Have you played Syndicate? If you have then I'm sure you know what I mean by a game changing it's gameplay formula too harshly. Syndicate was originally a real time tactics RPG and in 2012 there was a reboot but they turned it into a FPS. You feel like Fallout has become another Syndicate?
naossano
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Another example that i recall is the Commando FPS, which sank the series into oblivion...
If you are a Syndicate fan, you might want to try Satellite Reign, a remake of that game from its creators.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/268870/
It is sad that Fallout didn't have such a remake.
(although, many other games try to fill the gap)
If you are a Syndicate fan, you might want to try Satellite Reign, a remake of that game from its creators.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/268870/
It is sad that Fallout didn't have such a remake.
(although, many other games try to fill the gap)
Battlecross
Banned
I love the original and completely ignored the new one. That is a thing that seems impossible for fandoms though, I don't get it. The new one doesn't affect my love of the original and I don't care about it whatsoever.
Keeping the 50's aesthetic is what they wanted and it doesn't deviate from the first two and hippies don't necessarily equal different music. The divergent timeline doesn't make much sense at points considering the same exact Presidents end up existing. The original lore wasn't exactly perfect.
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Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
Remember the Xcom FPS game that people actually reacted so poorly to so they actually delayed it a lot? Why is it so selective with "gamers" nowadays?
T
TorontoReign
Guest
I told a person what they did to X-Com is what they did to Fallout and they strongly disagreed. I think it is very similar. People get hung up on the RPG moniker even though it barely fits the bill.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
People reacted with pitchforks and torches to Dante getting black hair, they yelled Betrayal at Xcom FPS, they hated every single thing about Resident Evil 6 and the new Alone in the Dark game, But then they turn back and tell people to "accept changes" on Fallout. Why?
Sn1p3r187
Carolinian Shaolin Monk
Well it's close to the same thing. The difference is in Fallout the action point system got integrated into TPS/FPS stuff that made it more like Bullet time and well aimed shots. Other than that, yes What they did with X-Com is similar with what they did to Fallout. In fact, I don't see why more people hated Fallout 3 more than the half of us on NMA. I can only think a lot of people never played Fallout 1 and 2.
Centurion 101
First time out of the vault
I have been trying to process what I think about FO4 now that some time has elapsed since the E3 showcase. First of all, I am going to buy it and probably at day one at that. I am a sucker for sandbox exploration games. If this one is in fallout flavor, even better.
That being said, I have very low expectations regarding story, dialogue and characters. The skill system is not a major thing for me, but design of other subsystems are. The guns look stupid, for all their modding. Perhaps they are not.
Features like base building can be fun and hopefully it will be relatively immersive and not some minecraft minigame that lives by it own rules outside the rest of the game.
Power armor redesign looks honestly very good. The power armor is the ultimate vehicles for a power fantasy, after all, and Bethsoft likes their power fantasies.
The jury is out, but as I said I will find out for myself on day one.
That being said, I have very low expectations regarding story, dialogue and characters. The skill system is not a major thing for me, but design of other subsystems are. The guns look stupid, for all their modding. Perhaps they are not.
Features like base building can be fun and hopefully it will be relatively immersive and not some minecraft minigame that lives by it own rules outside the rest of the game.
Power armor redesign looks honestly very good. The power armor is the ultimate vehicles for a power fantasy, after all, and Bethsoft likes their power fantasies.
The jury is out, but as I said I will find out for myself on day one.
fred2
Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
Lets start off with little background: Planescape Torment, considered to be one of the best cRPGs, where the character has an extensive predefined background. While alpha protocol --another RPG title Chris avellon, obsidian, worked on-- has several predefined backgrounds (e.g. in one of them you had several PhDs).
As for your generalizations/examples, they suffers from confirmation bias.. Yes FO:NV story structure provided the most blank slate character, however, the single most notable difference between rest is the "engine", not structure. FPP games provide a more detailed visual environment, if you take the time to reconcile those difference with what we know about FO1, you should be able easily match your initial comment of what's wrong with FO4.. In fact I did so for FO2 --my favorite title-- and compared its intro with FO3 --my least favorite title-- and decided that FO2 intro is completely sterile and illogical..
Also you seem to favor the classic fantasy setting i.e. teenager, orphan, who is unwillingly trust into an epic journey.. hence you consider a child a limiting factor to your character build.. never considering that not having one can be as limiting to others ... (I am not interested in bachelor perk, nor sexual experimentation in games)
Lastly i'll leave this video here, which should present a different pov on story structure, and hopefully answer your initial question "What were they thinking?" (it mentions FO:NV a lot )
Toby ehrm Walpknut, god no, please NO!!! Fallout 3 came in 2008, its 2015 ! and you are still here every single day ranting about Beth...
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Sn1p3r187
Carolinian Shaolin Monk
So can we say that Fallout betrayed itself and that's what makes the later titles like Fallout 3 and 4 bad?
naossano
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
About Planescape, it might have relevance on the general sense of being able to find various kind of structure in RPG and games in general, but doesn't matter much on the issue of losing something in Fallout. In order to know if we lost something or not in the Fallout series, Fallout entries need to be considered first.
You need to put more emphasis on that paragraph. What you are trying to say and what are your arguments are quite unclear.
I don't favor a specific character, but defend the ability for any kind of player to choose what kind of character he want to play, especially in games that allow it. (for instance, although i most often than not play a diplomat/pacifist character, i don't intend to make everyone else play that kind of guy, but would mind the disapearance of the possibility, like in Fo3 with the radroaches and Jefferson Memorial super-mutants) The possibility of having a child during your adventure is less limiting than having one forced upon you from the beginning, as, in the first case, it can be avoided. (on the other hand, i have no problem with dialogs options to tell other characters that you already have one or ten children, as long as you have the option to say the opposite) Also, what prevent you to play an old man in Fo1-Fo2-FoNV ? Who told you that you had no parents in those games ? About the unwillingness to go to epic journey, it is also open to interpretations.
Not seen the video yet.
Not that i don't want to, i just have an awfull internet connexion these days.
You need to put more emphasis on that paragraph. What you are trying to say and what are your arguments are quite unclear.
I don't favor a specific character, but defend the ability for any kind of player to choose what kind of character he want to play, especially in games that allow it. (for instance, although i most often than not play a diplomat/pacifist character, i don't intend to make everyone else play that kind of guy, but would mind the disapearance of the possibility, like in Fo3 with the radroaches and Jefferson Memorial super-mutants) The possibility of having a child during your adventure is less limiting than having one forced upon you from the beginning, as, in the first case, it can be avoided. (on the other hand, i have no problem with dialogs options to tell other characters that you already have one or ten children, as long as you have the option to say the opposite) Also, what prevent you to play an old man in Fo1-Fo2-FoNV ? Who told you that you had no parents in those games ? About the unwillingness to go to epic journey, it is also open to interpretations.
Not seen the video yet.
Not that i don't want to, i just have an awfull internet connexion these days.
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I don't think so.
FO3 could have thrown out everything in the franchise and still have been a good deep rpg game. Whether or not it's fallouty enough doesn't say anything about the actual quality of the game. You can't really personify Fallout either and say anything betrayed anything else because an entirely different team worked on FO3, and they can't exactly "betray" design sensibilities they never worked with. Tbh the simplest answer is that Bethsoft aren't really good developers, neither on technical nor design terms, compared to a lot of others, yet they rake in huuuge amounts of cash anyway. Think about it. They didn't have anything going for them except the first 3 TES games, which are good games, but by no means great. FO3 wasn't terribly bad, it was just mediocre in a way that Beth had a lot of ideas but it always felt I was playing a first, shallow draft.
RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
This!
During E3 I kept feeling like Bethesda was desperately trying to emulate Bioware and Mass Effect with Fallout 4. We know that they want the Mass Effect fan base. Joy. 
Goody! Now we can have another militaristic, wet brick of a protagonist that is beloved by thousands of rabid fanboys/girls. This is why I hate voiced protagonist in RPG's. Their personality is almost always that of a wet brick or plank of wood.
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Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
Consider it thus: A comic book fan collects a series for over a decade, then some suit demands a total identity change to the main character, and the following happens...
- The collector formerly proudly (possibly) stated their fandom of said series, but now feels mighty uncomfortable professing their fandom for it, given that most now identify it with the recent change, instead of the original concept.
- The collector has lost any continuance of their favorite series; their pastime, and hobby. Every news item they see that would normally perk up their honed interest now refers to the impostor; and most new fans have nothing in common, no memory and no interest in the original concept.
- All they have left is the older originals, and those have been retconned.
Battlecross
Banned
Why do you think the same people are saying both things? There is likely no overlap.
The griping about Bethesda is more like the current fanboy rage over Metroid Federatiom Force. People want the devs fired and the game canceled because it's not the game they want.
Recently, while watching gameplay videos I've come to a certain conclusion. I assume, that we will meet the Minutemen quite early on. That also means, that we will get to rampage in a Power Armor quite early on. And also that our first fight with a Deathclaw will also be quite early on. Am I the only one who is a bit worried about it? It's almost as if they were just putting out all the best content right from the start, no ace up the sleeve, all the cards just bare on the table.
I don't like it. I much prefer the game to start out slow, pit us against weak enemies and give us weak weapons and armor so there is a sense of progression as we wander around the wasteland doing quests and hoarding equipment and money.
When I think about it, It also makes me afraid that the encounter with Minutemen is very likely to be a part of the "main questline" and thus that only by going down it we will be able to get a suit of Power Armor. It reminds me of what I didn't like about Skyrim, that is the fact that to a certain point I had to go down the main questline to unlock some somewhat essential powers. (Shouts)
I don't like it. I much prefer the game to start out slow, pit us against weak enemies and give us weak weapons and armor so there is a sense of progression as we wander around the wasteland doing quests and hoarding equipment and money.
When I think about it, It also makes me afraid that the encounter with Minutemen is very likely to be a part of the "main questline" and thus that only by going down it we will be able to get a suit of Power Armor. It reminds me of what I didn't like about Skyrim, that is the fact that to a certain point I had to go down the main questline to unlock some somewhat essential powers. (Shouts)
Reaper Shackal
King of the Dominion
I wouldn't put the possibly behind that Fallout 4 will be more on rails than ever before in both the franchise and with Bethesda.
Eumesmopo
Learned to love the bomb
Are you f*cking kidding me? I only watched up to the part where the guy says "Fallout 3 has a better storyline that Fallout NV" so let's discuss only the logorrhea that went up to that point. Basically what he is saying is that if you follow a 'cake-bake formula' of storyline construction and make your RPG painfully linear with no relevant choices anywhere then you are making a good RPG so long as you get the predefined formula right and if your RPG has depth, complex and interesting characters, well written dialogue, believable and interesting factions and ideologies, verisimilitude and plentiful of player freedom (all the points where F:NV beats the living crap out of F3) that doesn't matter for squat? Even if the storyline for first case is super dumb and has no point whatsoever it is still makes it better than the second, non linear, case?
Fuck. If that's the road you are going to take anyone could just as well make a kaleidoscope that constructs storylines you are going to like, just pick a bunch of random plot tools and character archetypes and shake 'em till they each fall into their right places at the predefined 'story structure'. It's like the manatees taking idea balls to construct a new Family Guy episode on that South Park episode.
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