Opinions on Fallout 4?

We al lalready watched that Extra Credits video on story and we have already commented how stupid it was, and how much wrong information it has too.
 
The EC epsidoe just delivered some rather justified criticism on New Vegas' use of amnesia. I don't think it says anywhere that Fallout 3 is superior to FNV, it just states that it has a clear Act 1, 2 and 3. Just as every other Behtesda game has a brief Act 1, ususally a prison sequence. I am pretty sure F:NV is mentioned very positively in many other EC episodes.

Based on what we know we can deduce that FO4 will also have a very traditional story arc with act 1, 2 and 3, the dramatic question being *probably* what happened to my family?
 
Except New Vegas has no amnesia at all.... Like they make a point of establishing you are not suffering from amnesia (the Rorshaq test and trait selection) not to mention they say that they don't give you different equipment dependant on your tagged skills.... yet the game literally gives you starting equipment related to your tagged skills...
 
Is it me or the guy that narrates the video has the same childish voice as the guy that introduced Fo4 in the E3 ?

About the amnesia, i am not totally sure. The characters clearly remember some stuff, but i think he might have forgotten some other stuff about what he was delivering. That needs to be check out.

Although, the point of the video isn't about keeping the first act at all cost, but about ways to remove it more smoothly.
On the other hand, you can argue that the 1st act indeed exist. IMO, the Water chip/Geck/Dad/Platinium Chip are just an excuse to have you travel, and serve as big tutorial phase, when you get to discover the world before the real plot kicks in. (although, Geck/Dad are longer quests than Water/Platinium chip)

The same might be said about FoT, before you meet the Super-mutants/Robots for the first times. Fighting the raiders/beastlords is the BOS regular job, while the battles agains't SM/Robots is part of a big war that threatens the survival of the BOS.
 
Walpknut said:
Except New Vegas has no amnesia at all.... Like they make a point of establishing you are not suffering from amnesia (the Rorshaq test and trait selection) not to mention they say that they don't give you different equipment dependant on your tagged skills.... yet the game literally gives you starting equipment related to your tagged skills...
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Not as much in the main game but Lonesome Road is essentially a whole DLC that can only exist due to amnesia and not just from the Courier.
 
What? no, ddi you even pay attention to Lonesome Road? Also you can actively choose dialogue options to imply your Courier knows what New Reno is him impregnating a woman 16 years prior....
 
Walpknut said:
What? no, ddi you even pay attention to Lonesome Road? Also you can actively choose dialogue options to imply your Courier knows what New Reno is him impregnating a woman 16 years prior....
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I did, did you? The Courier created/destroyed an entire city/civilization with no mention of it by anyone before the DLC existed. It was very poorly written in that the Courier should never have founded it. The only explanation is amnesia for why the events did not exist before Lonesome Road, even with Ulysses existing beforehand in the previous DLCs.
 
You didn't pay attention to it.... The Courier didn't fund it, he just did deliveries for it during the early stages of the NCR campaigh which helped the settlement grow, he didn't fund it. He delivered the Package that contained the Silo launching module that then also created the Divid as it is, saud package actuallybeing requested by someone in the NCR and probably found in Navarro, he never counciously funded nor destroyed it, he was just a Courier. Ulysses is all about actions having deeper consequences than people think they have when they do them, maybe.... pay better attention to dialogue.... Also there is a LOT of dialogue dedicated to stating the Courier has no amnesia....
 
Walpknut said:
You didn't pay attention to it.... The Courier didn't fund it, he just did deliveries for it during the early stages of the NCR campaigh which helped the settlement grow, he didn't fund it. He delivered the Package that contained the Silo launching module that then also created the Divid as it is, saud package actuallybeing requested by someone in the NCR and probably found in Navarro, he never counciously funded nor destroyed it, he was just a Courier. Ulysses is all about actions having deeper consequences than people think they have when they do them, maybe.... pay better attention to dialogue.... Also there is a LOT of dialogue dedicated to stating the Courier has no amnesia....
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Sigh, you totally ignored what I said. Why does NO ONE IN THE GAME know about the massive civilization destroying explosion despite the NCR sending the package and despite it not being that far from the main game? I also didn't say he has amnesia, I said it's the only thing that explains
none of the events having happened prior to the DLC.

Again, your bias doesn't let you point out any problems or actually remember the dialogue:

No one remembers this major incident despite:

"Many NCR were already here when the destruction happened. Keeping the route East open, in fear of Caesar. Fear of the Legion."

Explained as "simply forgetting" (bad writing):

"{Cold, judging, low}And you've forgotten. Forgotten everything. {Beat, emph}Careless, as careless with futures then as you are now in the Mojave."

"I've been to your home, the place you kept returning to... may not be the place you were born, was the place you gave life to, same thing."

"{Thinking}You were the only one willing to make the journey to and from here... a hard road. Kept the land before the Divide alive through seasons, storms..."

"It was you walking that road that kept the Divide alive. It grew from what you did. Settlers... camps... filling that Old World city."

"You brought the Divide to life, Courier. You walked the road. Brought the Bear, then the Bull, brought me, following your tracks."

"You destroyed your own homeland. Seeing a nation burn? Didn't think that would matter any more to you."

The place you gave life to is what I'm talking about and what Ulyssess's says repeatedly. Did you forget?
 
A lot of people actually talk about the Divide in the game, Nash is one of them and other characters make reference to the disaster there during the Battle of Hoover Dam. You kind of get mentions of it everywhere and that's how people got hyped for the DLCs and where even theorizing what would it have, same way a couple of the Caravaners talk about Utah and New Canaan.

Again, your inability to read the dialogue or pay attention to the game prevents you from making a coherent argument.
 
Walpknut said:
A lot of people actually talk about the Divide in the game, Nash is one of them and other characters make reference to the disaster there during the Battle of Hoover Dam. You kind of get mentions of it everywhere and that's how people got hyped for the DLCs and where even theorizing what would it have, same way a couple of the Caravaners talk about Utah and New Canaan.

Again, your inability to read the dialogue or pay attention to the game prevents you from making a coherent argument.
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I like how you ignored my entire post tearing down what you said. Acknowledge it. This is just like when you couldn't handle the previous argument and ignored that too.

Also, literally the only thing Nash says about the Divide is mentioning the storms. No talk of nukes wrecking everything. The NCR and Legion lost tons of people yet don't comment on it? You see no issue there? I don't think I've ever met someone so dedicated to keeping their head in the sand over their biases.
 
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So Far I'm crushed. Everything positive about the game is just minor stuff to me. But the core of the game? The actual role-playing? Looks like it's been gauged severely. I hate, hate, hate, HATE the voiced protagonist. That is sure to reduce the amount of choice we have in the game to a significant degree. It looks like 4 "Mass Effect style" choices is going to be the norm. They showed very little of the actual RPG elements but after what Bethesda has done lately I wouldn't be surprised if they screwed them up as well.

All of this is even worse because I was actually pretty exited from the reveal trailer, it looked like it was going to be Fallout 3, just slightly improved, and you know what? I'd be ok with that, while I'd like Obsidian to make another game I'd actually be ok with another Fallout 3. But this? This is even worse than that, I can't believe how negative I'm being, this is horrible.
 
What did I ginore? First you claim the Courier founded the town, I tell you that s/he did not, then you say no one mentions the Divide in Game, And again I tell you they did, Vulpes Inculta, Cass and Nash mention the Divide by name and allude to what happens there, namely the weather and how it's a death valley now.

"The place you gave life to is what I'm talking about and what Ulyssess's says repeatedly. Did you forget?"
As I aleady told you, Ulysses himself just says that you were the first Courier to make contact with the Divide Settlement, he makes it a more dramatic point about how your seemingly inconsecuential action of delivering packages from NCR outposts in the Mojave actually helped the settlement grow, and he ended p delivering the final package that destroyed the place (Which was a piece of Navarro scavenged tech some other person requested delivered, the Courier never even knew what he was delivering) I don't see how this is hard for you to understand- It's kind of one of Ulysses main points during his ramblings, he is constantly talking about people changing others through actions they don't understand. At no point is there any allusion to amnesia nor to the Courier actually having created the town, nor "just forgetting", the Courier simply never gave too much importance to his deliveries there and the Destruction of the Divide occured around the same time as the Original Battle of Hoover Dam (That's why the Marked men all have an amalgam of Legion and NCR armors). Your entire arguments rests on basically not havign paid attention to the game, on you misreading everything and then coming to a conclusion that is explicitly disprooven during the first 5 minutes of the game.
 
Walpknut said:
What did I ginore? First you claim the Courier founded the town, I tell you that s/he did not, then you say no one mentions the Divide in Game, And again I tell you they did, Vulpes Inculta, Cass and Nash mention the Divide by name and allude to what happens there, namely the weather and how it's a death valley now.

"The place you gave life to is what I'm talking about and what Ulyssess's says repeatedly. Did you forget?"
As I aleady told you, Ulysses himself just says that you were the first Courier to make contact with the Divide Settlement, he makes it a more dramatic point about how your seemingly inconsecuential action of delivering packages from NCR outposts in the Mojave actually helped the settlement grow, and he ended p delivering the final package that destroyed the place (Which was a piece of Navarro scavenged tech some other person requested delivered, the Courier never even knew what he was delivering) I don't see how this is hard for you to understand- It's kind of one of Ulysses main points during his ramblings, he is constantly talking about people changing others through actions they don't understand. At no point is there any allusion to amnesia nor to the Courier actually having created the town, nor "just forgetting", the Courier simply never gave too much importance to his deliveries there and the Destruction of the Divide occured around the same time as the Original Battle of Hoover Dam (That's why the Marked men all have an amalgam of Legion and NCR armors). Your entire arguments rests on basically not havign paid attention to the game, on you misreading everything and then coming to a conclusion that is explicitly disprooven during the first 5 minutes of the game.
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That's a nitpick, he's basically the "life" of the town and the way Ulysses speaks it makes him out to be the founder of sorts which is what I was talking about. Ulysses explicitly says the Courier "made" the town by helping to build it up, yet he doesn't ever mention it once in the original game? Nice try. Again, who mentions the major nuclear destruction that isn't the cause of the storms which was a Big MT experiment? Feel free to post the relevant dialogue by the way.

You're also apparently not reading properly here, so talking to you is pointless as per usual. I paid attention, proved you wrong and here you are rambling about how I'm wrong despite being correct, I see nothing from Inculta and only a single mention of the storms from the Divide again. Nothing about a ton of nukes going off and tons being slaughtered.
 
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Sn1p3r187 said:
Also. Do you think Bethesda betrayed Fallout with the First person and third person views and the fact they got rid of the action point based combat from the first two? Could you even say its Fallout anymore?
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I actually think that was a good move for the franchise. The first person view is not what I disliked about Fallout 3, I actually thought that was it's biggest strength, exploring a Fully 3D Fallout setting was a dream come true for me, I just hated pretty much everything else about the game. And New Vegas showed that you can make a (mostly) proper sequel to the first two games in first-person. If Obsidian made another Fallout game, and tweaked SPECIAL and the skills to how they functioned in Fallout 1 and 2 (or better) then I think it would work perfectly.
 
A Nitpick? You are the one who seems to be equating Did deliveris for to "Founded the town". It's not even subtlety Ulysses actually outright says that what you did meant nothing to you because it was a small job but it had big consequences. You are arguing two things that are disproven by the game itself, you are also claiming people never mention the Divid, which they do, a lot, specially in Dead Money and Honest Hearts. You argument was that the only way for Lonesome Road to make sense was Amnesia, and I just showed you how that's just completely not true.
Big Mt's experiment was more with the Weather of the Divide, Cass mentions how her runs to the Divide made her good with Dynamite because the twisters would constantly throw boulders into the road, Big Mt didn't cause the detruction of the Divide, it was caused by the package the courier brought from Navarro activating the Silos underground when some NCR big shot activatd it later on. There is even mentions how that's what actually slowed down the NCR's campaign as they lost a supply line, and even about Caesar's Legion planning on attacking it for that very reason.

I have no idea how your "proved me wrong" when all you have said is non sense that is disproven by the game. So... Try again?
 
Guys, could you please move this debate somewhere else? As fascinating as this exchange is, it has nothing to do with the topic of Fallout 4. Maybe it had at the beginning, but now you have strayed completely off-topic.

Anyway, I'm optimistic when it comes to F4. The game seems more responsive and less "clunky" than the predecessors, it should really help with immersion, which I personally really like.
 
Walpknut said:
A Nitpick? You are the one who seems to be equating Did deliveris for to "Founded the town". It's not even subtlety Ulysses actually outright says that what you did meant nothing to you because it was a small job but it had big consequences. You are arguing two things that are disproven by the game itself, you are also claiming people never mention the Divid, which they do, a lot, specially in Dead Money and Honest Hearts. You argument was that the only way for Lonesome Road to make sense was Amnesia, and I just showed you how that's just completely not true.
Big Mt's experiment was more with the Weather of the Divide, Cass mentions how her runs to the Divide made her good with Dynamite because the twisters would constantly throw boulders into the road, Big Mt didn't cause the detruction of the Divide, it was caused by the package the courier brought from Navarro activating the Silos underground when some NCR big shot activatd it later on. There is even mentions how that's what actually slowed down the NCR's campaign as they lost a supply line, and even about Caesar's Legion planning on attacking it for that very reason.

I have no idea how your "proved me wrong" when all you have said is non sense that is disproven by the game. So... Try again?
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Can you seriously not read? The quotes I posted from the game itself prove you wrong dude, please don't be so bullheaded. You also misunderstood my amnesia comment considering the Courier never once mentions this major event, ergo "lost memory" is the explanation that even Ulysses says.

All the quotes I posted prove me right, choose to ignore them if you wish. That seems to be your thing.

Big MT caused the storms dude, hello. "Hopeville was also the subject of a major Big MT research project concerning meteorology; a project that apparently ended in a disaster, spawning the dust storms the Divide is infamous for." Again, more proof.
 
The Quotes you posted from the game don't prove me wrong in the lest, they are actually what I am saying. THeCourier did delvieries for the Settlement fro mthe NCR, which had lasting consequences beyond them, the NCR got interested in the place and so did Legion in account of attacking the NCR supply lines, Ulysses make it more dramatic but later on he even acknowledges that your actions where small but they had bigger consequences. Your entire point seems to be ignoring this and for some reason you claim that they say you have amnesia.

Also none of them mention Amnesia which is your main argument. Can't you even read your own messages?


"Big MT caused the storms dude, hello. "Hopeville was also the subject of a major Big MT research project concerning meteorology; a project that apparently ended in a disaster, spawning the dust storms the Divide is infamous for." Again, more proof."

More proof of what? That you didn't pay attention? The Big MT experiment was with the sandstorms, what caused the disaster was the Silos underground, not the Big Mt..... the Lonesome Road's copy of ED-E contains the device that activated the Silos originall... it's like Literally stated there....
 
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Walpknut said:
The Quotes you posted from the game don't prove me wrong in the lest, they are actually what I am saying. THeCourier did delvieries for the Settlement fro mthe NCR, which had lasting consequences beyond them, the NCR got interested in the place and so did Legion in account of attacking the NCR supply lines, Ulysses make it more dramatic but later on he even acknowledges that your actions where small but they had bigger consequences. Your entire point seems to be ignoring this and for some reason you claim that they say you have amnesia.
Also none of them mention Amnesia which is your main argument. Can't you even read your own messages?
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I never said they say you have amnesia, what are you talking about? I said it seems like it's the only explanation considering the Courier literally never mentions the events. Can you read dude? Ulysses says the Courier was a major factor in the growth of the community in the Divide, it's all there.

"It was you walking that road that kept the Divide alive. It grew from what you did. Settlers... camps... filling that Old World city."

"You brought the Divide to life, Courier. You walked the road. Brought the Bear, then the Bull, brought me, following your tracks."

"You destroyed your own homeland. Seeing a nation burn? Didn't think that would matter any more to you."
 
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