Per counts down his favourite games

[Ratty Sr.]

I managed to finish Baldur's Gate once. The mere thought of doing it again makes my brains cringe with the thought of a thousand agonised hours of boredome.

You have more patience than me. I tried really, really hard to enjoy Baldur's Gate, but 8 hours into the game the experience became about as enjoyable as getting my testicles caught in a bulldog clip.

I more or less agree with Per's assessment of the game, though, even if I wouldn't count it among top 50, let alone top 10 greatest games.

 

[Brother None]

I more or less agree with Per's assessment of the game.

Doesn't his assessment boil down to "wow, look, the shiny!" It indicates exactly how Baldur's Gate is a cog in the great machine that led Western cRPGs trampling downwards into the bog that is "Oblivion: cRPG of the year", which is a good reason to list it in the top 10 "worst influential games ever", but hardly best game.

EDIT: also, as for limited replay value, I only finished it once, but I've started it come quite a bit (roughly to Baldur's Gate or a bit before each time) about 4 times. I've tried it all, evil dwarf warrior, good gnome illusionist, annoying paladin type, dual-classed mage/warrior (everything but bards and elves, I hate them both, a lot). And you know what stung? It played exactly the same way every fucking time. Even the evil path, since only 10% of the "quests" even have an evil option which usually take such a ridiculous slash at your reputation that it makes playing evil a serious non-option. Killed the pixie? -3 reputation, whoops, you now hit -7, prepare to be hunted down by guards. Also, killing guards is -3. You're now at -10. You can never enter a town again ever.

 

[Montez]

I'm not a fan of the original Baldur's Gate, but I have to point out that there's a mod out there that will let you play it using BG2's engine (BGTutu, I think?), which makes it a lot easier to get in to and funner to play. I had about 4-5 aborted attempts at BG before this mod because the game was so slow and devoid of content at the beginning I just couldn't keep interested. It's still not that good a game in my opinion, but it certainly becomes a lot more enjoyable when you can actually go through all those huge, empty, pointless areas at a decent speed.

 

[Per]

Doesn't his assessment boil down to "wow, look, the shiny!"

Needless to say, whatever I happen to write on each game should not be read as "I Like This Game for This Reason and No Other, a Thesis by Per". Anyway, I look forward to hunting down your, Sander's and Ratty's lists in the top 10 thread if they're there and mocking them. Harshly!

3, MP: Turboraketti (Amiga)

This one wasn't even a commercial release, hence the lack of a Mobygames entry (and there are two games of the same name, I'm referring to the one known informally as Turboraketti 2). If you got past the menus and options which were all in Finnish, you'd find a cavernous Thrust-like split-screen environment where two delta-winged rockets were destined to battle it out while also facing the dangers of gravity and unyielding rock. There were some five maps, and ample weapon, fuel and physics settings (hint: disallow the homing missile). Fun with inertia meant you could perform wild fly-by shootings and other weird stunts, and as a desperate measure you could always try to ram your opponent. I remember more than once that everyone involved laughed themselves to tears after someone did something like, I don't know, crash into a wall. A game which does that must have something going for it.

3, SP: Civilization, Civilization II, Civilization III (Amiga, PC)

If there's an exception to the rule that games should be rated on their own, it would be when a sequel pretty much overwrites its predecessor, rendering it obsolete by adding a deeper or more fine-tuned layer of simulation but nothing in the way of plot or concept. While Civ 3 is the game I'd sit down with today, I've spent so much time with Civ and Civ 2 that they belong on the list as well; but since I don't really want to reserve three places, here they all are in the same spot. Do I need to say that Sid Meier is a genius, that Civilization was one of the major milestones of computer gaming, and that the follow-ups, though not developed by Meier himself as they'd have us believe, do a pretty good job at it too? If you don't like the Civilization series, well, then you probably don't like civilization sims much. The thing that always bugged me about the games? The fact that the computer players cheat, and not only in ways that might be justified in order to define difficulty levels. I haven't played Civ 4, but some have mentioned "dumbing down" and possibly even "hell" when speaking of the franchise.

 

[Evil Feline]

I find it absolutety hilarious that the most frequently used argument in this Debate is what can only be describe as Reductio ad Oblivium.

I'm feeling
1. Pokemon
2. Halo 2
3. Oblivion

If this continues I can only guess #1 is Oblivion.

Baldur's Gate is a cog in the great machine that led Western cRPGs trampling downwards into the bog that is "Oblivion: cRPG of the year"

Ahh, if only Bethesda knew

 

[Wooz]

If only Bethesda knew a lot of us isn't drooling over oblivion?

 

[Montez]

I think he means more that if they only knew that "Oblivion" has seemingly become to games discussions here what "Hitler" is to political discussions.

 

[DirtyDreamDesigner]

Expect the "fifty oblivions post" soon.

 

[Per]

2, MP: Bubble Bobble (C64, Amiga)

My older brother used to play the arcade version lots, so it was an inevitable purchase when the C64 conversion was released. Fortunately, it turned out to be perhaps the best of its kind: although some features had to be cut and the physics were slightly different, it was still a hugely playable game. And play it we did. We were eventually able to get through the 100 levels keeping one of us entirely unkilled (which has in-game benefits), the other losing maybe two or three lives. The Amiga version is excellent as well; slightly harder if you're used to some tricks you can pull in the C64 version (and it's possible for monsters to get stuck in almost impossible-to-reach places), but with almost all of the treasures and power-ups from the arcade original intact. Bubble Bobble will always have a place in my heart - watch out for Harry!

2, SP: Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn (PC)

Baldur's Gate was great, and then Baldur's Gate II came along and was even greater. The game is in some ways compressed, in some ways expanded. Fewer NPCs, but each one developed in greater detail. Less extensive areas, but few "dead" locations. More spells and abilities. Also a bucketload of quests, exotic locales, items and enemies. When it comes to sense of wonder, there's simply no game that can measure up to BG2, which consistently rises far above the traditional dungeon crawling motif. You're powerful, and so are they, and then you get whisked off to another plane, and then there's Missy the Coat Check Girl, and then you're chatting to the fading avatar of a dead god, and then you beat up a dragon, and then your apprentices explode making the Staff of Power, and then you're tracking down a serial killer, and then some people want to bump you off for going into their house to loot their containers, but boy are they in for a surprise... There's just so much meat, so many great moments, that in the end it matters little that the main backplot is just a big sidetrack in the Bhaalspawn saga. The infiltration of Ust Natha ranks as one of my strongest gaming experiences ever, and there are throw-away party dialogues that are little gems of art. BG2 is also, like its predecessor, positively huge, and the Throne of Bhaal expansion isn't lame but adds a lot more to the hugeness, closing the epic on a touching note. Real time with pause for the win.

 

[Sander]

....
Well, at least putting Baldur's Gate 2 ahead of Fallout is more understandable than putting Baldur's Gate ahead of Fallout, but it's still ridiculous.

Per, thou sucketh in thine gaming choice (or something like that).

 

[The Vault Dweller]

2, MP: Bubble Bobble (C64, Amiga)

My older brother used to play the arcade version lots, so it was an inevitable purchase when the C64 conversion was released. Fortunately, it turned out to be perhaps the best of its kind: although some features had to be cut and the physics were slightly different, it was still a hugely playable game. And play it we did. We were eventually able to get through the 100 levels keeping one of us entirely unkilled (which has in-game benefits), the other losing maybe two or three lives. The Amiga version is excellent as well; slightly harder if you're used to some tricks you can pull in the C64 version (and it's possible for monsters to get stuck in almost impossible-to-reach places), but with almost all of the treasures and power-ups from the arcade original intact. Bubble Bobble will always have a place in my heart - watch out for Harry!

[

(bows)

I pledge my total and eternal loyalty to you, my dark master. I will do whatever you wish in return for your tutoring that could lead to such power as your apprentice.

,
The Vault Dweller

P.S.

I never got past like the 25th level for f***'s sake.

Also I bet Per's number one game is Tetris. Look at his new avatar.

 

[alec]

Also I bet Per's number one game is Tetris. Look at his new avatar.

It would make more sense if it's Fallout 2, but with Per you never seem to know...

 

[Brother None]

Needless to say, whatever I happen to write on each game should not be read as "I Like This Game for This Reason and No Other, a Thesis by Per". Anyway, I look forward to hunting down your, Sander's and Ratty's lists in the top 10 thread if they're there and mocking them. Harshly!

So you admit to liking a game purely because it's shiny? Tsss.

As for top 10 list, I've hardly played 10 pc games in my life, let alone have the knowledge/experience for a top 10 list.

That doesn't mean I won't discount a list that has both Baldur's Gateses but not Realms of Arkania II as bullshit, though.

 

[SimpleMinded]

Bubble Bobble was an incredible game and it's one of the few games my parents got into. I remember as a kid, me and my mom played it in coop. But then she got so addicted, she just started playing by herself and we pretty much never got to play again.

 

[Per]

I pledge my total and eternal loyalty to you, my dark master. I will do whatever you wish in return for your tutoring that could lead to such power as your apprentice.

You can start by smiting the non-Baldur's Gate-loving infidels.

So you admit to liking a game purely because it's shiny?

Needless to say, whatever I happen to write on each game should not be read as "I Like This Game for This Reason and No Other, a Thesis by Per".

As for top 10 list, I've hardly played 10 pc games in my life, let alone have the knowledge/experience for a top 10 list.

That doesn't mean I won't discount a list that has both Baldur's Gateses but not Realms of Arkania II as bullshit, though.

So you admit to offering totally arbitrary opinions on other people's opinions? Tss.

1, MP: Worms United (PC)

The "United" part refers to the integration of the Reinforcements add-on, which I think added little of importance. Apart from that, we're looking at the very first Worms, before they totally screwed it up and lost the fun (franchise, meet hell. Hell, franchise). There was nothing original about it, it just did exactly what it was supposed to do. Set the right options, allow the right weapons, assemble three players and have a computer player as a wild card, and there's no limit to the amount of sharp-shooting, carpet-bombing, back-stabbing fun you can have. And why not put on a Toto album, some John Coltrane or Jack Lewis' old time and bluegrass podcast while you're playing?

1, SP: Fallout 2 (PC)

It was when the shotgun wedding faded in that I knew I had a new favourite game. It's rare and precious that a game completely sidesteps my expectations, and Fallout 2 provides numerous weird and wonderful moments of quirky humour. Out of flavour? Perhaps. Out of character? At times. Out of the ordinary? Quite so. From your humble beginnings as a gecko stalker in the hunting grounds of Arroyo, the world unfolds like a swag bag full of awesome. Meeting with Sulik. Blowing up the shitter in Modoc. Discovering Seymour the talking plant. Dropping the land-mine on Lloyd. Reporting for guard duty in the Navarro base. Sailing off for the Enclave. I dare say that anyone who'd rate Fallout over its sequel is thinking of something other and less tangible than the actual games and how they play. Fallout 2 has an improved interface, more character options, more use for utility skills, more "dumb" dialogue, a world easily twice as big, more connections between areas, more rock collecting, more flavour, more choice and consequence. At the cost of some consistency, some sobriety, and... well, not a whole lot else. Some say the franchise's dip into hell took place right after Fallout, I say that's bullshit. Fallout 2 may not represent an artistic achievement in the same sense that Fallout does, due to the simple fact that it's a derivative product, but there's no game I appreciate more.

Finally, some games get an honorary mention (a few of them even had a chance of making it onto the list): Arcanum, Chrono Trigger, Grim Fandango, Knights of the Old Republic, Lords of Midnight, Magic: the Gathering, Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge, Planescape: Torment, Pool of Radiance (the original), Populous: the Beginning, Railroad Tycoon, Sacrifice, The Secret of Monkey Island. Maybe you were waiting for one of these games to appear on the list. Tough luck. They're still pretty good games! They can't all be on the list, is all. Except if you PUSH OUT FALLOUT.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Real time with pause for the win.

Come on! I mean.. COME ON!






Per, are you trolling?

 

[The Vault Dweller]

Per is either trolling, drunk, or fallen into despair and plans to kill himself soon.

Also I never even played Baldur's Gate 1 or 2 though even if they arent as good as Fallout by far they seem good enough to play now...

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller

 

[Ratty Sr.]

Per is either trolling, drunk, or fallen into despair and plans to kill himself soon.

Or maybe he just sucks. Sucks sucks sucks!

I mean, liking Baldur's Gate is practically equivalent with sucking. If he didn't suck, he wouldn't be liking Baldur's Gate.

Per and Baldur's Gate, sitting in the tree, S.U.C.K.I.N.G.

 

[alec]

Finally, some games get an honorary mention (a few of them even had a chance of making it onto the list): Arcanum [...] They can't all be on the list, is all. Except if you PUSH OUT FALLOUT.

I totally get you when you rate FO 2 way better than FO, because it is in various ways, but that you do not dare to kick FO out of your list to replace it with Arcanum (which is superior to FO in a multitude of ways) is beyond me.

Also:

Bubble Bobble was an incredible game and it's one of the few games my parents got into. I remember as a kid, me and my mom played it in coop. But then she got so addicted, she just started playing by herself and we pretty much never got to play again.

I find this utterly hilarious, since I had a similar thing happening to me with Tetris: my mom got addicted to it and actually took possession of my Game Boy. She still plays it to this day and remains unbeaten in the family.

 

[Wooz]

Arcanum (which is superior to FO in a multitude of ways)

Namely, game bugs and crappy party member AI.

Because the rest of the game was, y'know, utter shit compared to Fallout 1.