zegh8578 said:
Sorry, I don't remember this point.
2. No, because yes. Humans don't have to be many billions, in order to be regarded humans. It's as if we can't exist, if we exist in a way different than now. You're shooting a world-without-oil right down, as if impossible at all. So what if I'm imagining a world with less people? It's not like I'm planning this, I'm not a bad guy.
No one's saying that you're a bad guy. It's just that you mentioned earlier that I'm wrong because "we" don't need oil. Now, it turns out that "we" is only a few million people. But that doesn't contradict my argument at all, right?
3. Again, yes, that's it basically. In theory a global population as low as a million could survive well, and continue humanity. Also, oil has a certain value, and there's a certain payback in refining it - and in comparison other forms of energy fall short. But remove oil from the equation, and the whole picture will change by itself. Look, here's me being completely honest:
That's all I said, no more no less: We don't need oil.
Again, this is what I mean: for you "we" refers only to a million people. For me, "we" refers to most of 7 billion people.
If "we" refers to only a million people, then almost anything discussed in this thread will be pointless for you unless it leads to literally human beings wiped out. But even then I'm sure you'll be able to show that at least a million will survive given any problem, which means the human race will experience no problems at all.
This line of argumentation makes no sense to me.
I'm not a retard. I realize cars need oil. Right?
Actually, it's not just cars but almost anything that involves manufacturing or mechanized agriculture. And it's not just fuel for energy that's involved but petrochemicals used for thousands of products.
So obviously, making such a statement, I am prepared to imagine a world sans many of todays comforts, it is self evident. And now, something simple, self evident, and not even very weighty has turned into a whole-page debate. I hope this little exchange never ends! Now, ask me if I really expect a world of a million/less global population to enjoy a lifestyle like today, or if I'm naive enough to imagine this to take place soon, or just surprise me!
The "lifestyle" of today may require a population much larger than a million.
Crni Vuk said:
Uh? What the hell dude. I am not going to answer to everything you posted because I see that as boring.
I don't see where it is contradicting anything because we are talking here about
SURVIVAL
Humanity managed for the last 30 000 years to do quite well without any oil. The history of oil as how we use it today is maybe 200 years old. Not to mention a large part of the world does not even use any fuel and oil. Like the tribes and populations which exist without modern civilization.
The effect would be huge for us and the modern society. So much for sure. I am not naive. But it would not mean extinction if there would be tomorrow no oil anymore.
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The issue isn't extinction but ironically the same point: survival. And given what you've said, it is likely that most won't survive. Thus, this doesn't contradict anything that I've said.
What the hell are you even talking about, like there is no alternative to industrialized farming or that it would be a good solution to anything because honestly now we actually realize that it was one of the worst decision in the last 100 years. And now they also want to tell use that we "need" engineered food where the genome has been changed.
Mechanized agriculture doesn't refer only to "engineered food." It refers to using oil needed to run tractors and other infrastructure needed to harvest, process, and distribute food. The use is not just energy but even petrochemicals needed for the whole manufacturing and distribution process, all the way to the plastic containers and bags needed to store food.
I don't think you know anything about this topic. You should study it first before responding further.
Do you even realize how big the lobby is behind all of this? The whole food industry in the US is a total mess.
Again the problem is not how much food we actually produce and manufacture. The problem is the distribution. Its like wealth. Do you realize how much food ends in the trashcan? Each day? Its terrifying when you consider how many people have actually nothing to eat at all.
Again, the problem isn't that we don't have enough food, it's that we have enough food because of oil.
Study the matter further before you post again. Think of the amount of resources needed to produce food, and figure out why it takes eight to ten calories to produce one calorie of food.
The reason isn't lobbying or distribution or waste. It's oil.
Crni Vuk said:
thats a different question. They will find solutions for many products which we make out of oil today. I am sure. I mean they already found ways how to make plastic out of wood, somehow.
I think that's biodegradable plastic. Most of the plastic and synthetic products that we need, for cars, electronic gadgets and appliances, and even clothes, cannot be biodegradable.
Also, the amount of energy needed to produce plastic from other sources will be very high compared to what we get from petrochemicals.
TheWesDude nails it! We're looking at a convergence of multiple threats across the board: conventional oil production not meeting demand, global warming leading to more devastating droughts, heat waves, floods, storms, and so on, decades-high food and oil prices, growing social unrest worldwide due to higher prices and unemployment problems, military forces saber-rattling in the Middle East and in Asia over control of various resources, the threat of a global depression as one economy after another gets hammered by combinations of lack of credit, outright financial fraud, solutions involving creating more money to stem problems caused by too much money, etc.
That's why the only thing we can say to comfort ourselves is that humanity will still survive, even if only a million will remain.
Of course, one also has to assume that he will be one of the million.
