Antiwarprofallout
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Once again, I AM NOT ARGUING FOR THE AMERICAN SYSTEM
The quote was referring to doctors abandoning private practices and going to government owned ones
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It Wandered In From the Wastes
Once again, I AM NOT ARGUING FOR THE AMERICAN SYSTEM
The quote was referring to doctors abandoning private practices and going to government owned ones
So what if they do? Like I said, we don't really have a problem with mass starving doctors in Germany forced to live on food stamps.
What would you do, if it turns out that you have cancer and need a treatment that most likely costs you no clue 170 000$?
If all the private doctors switch to government owned practices.... that kinda presents a problem for those who want to go private lol
Not going to play the "oh yea what if [Insert incredibly specific rare hypothetical scenario that makes me look right] game.
Antiwarprofallout
It Wandered In From the Wastes
No one said that there would be doctors going on welfare, anecdotal evidence is not reliable, and I do not support the American System so I do not have to support it in arguments or respond to criticisms of it.
Your only argument at this point is backed up by nothing and is simply: "Do you want to pay 100,000,000+ dollars or pay nothing?". It's intellectually dishonest and assumes someone's proposed system's effects without actually analyzing the logic, facts and arguments behind it.
Throatpunch
Banned
I would usually go out on bonfire night to see the locals burn a guy fawkes, but I'll wait for 3 days to see the Americans burn a witch
Jogre
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
So what kind of system do you support?
It sounds like you are arguing against a system, without having a practical alternative.
Yeah, you're right. Why should anyone ever think about what he should do in the unlikely event of geting cancer, some serious sickness, like a depression, or maybe injuries, like from a car accident, or health issues from 30-40 years of work maybe. Pfff ... how could I even get the idea to ask something as crazy like that ...
Why don't you remove any air bags or seat belts from your car? Or any fire extinguisher from public buildings! Or lightning rods, who the hell needs those anyway? I mean the fuck, some incredibly specific rare and hypothetical scenario should not cloud our judgements! How much cheaper could we make cars without air bags! Or crumple zones.
Eh? But this is the kind of reality that you see right now in the US, and isn't happening in Germany. But I guess those people starting donnor websites in the US must be illusions, right?
So this is far from 'just' anecdotal evidence. It just happens that I had such a case in my family. But, you know what! The father of my room mate and good long time friend, also had cancer some 6 or 7 years ago, and a teacher in the school where I am working, is right now in treatment! You know what they don't do? Complaining about how shitty it is that they don't have to pay 100 000 for the treatment, because they have been able to get affordable health care.
What kind of argument is there that is defying logic and facts? That you will never have an absolut perfect system that never suffers from issues? Oh gosh! The horror that is German or Swedish health care! But which actually works in practise. Like I ever said anything about Obama care in the first place how effective - or ineffective it is, frankly I don't know it! But that doesn't mean health care in general doesn't work, just because they can't get it to work, thx to corruption, lobbyism and who knows what else.It's simply ridiculous to see how the US is struggling with something that apparantly works in other places. For one of the 'richest' nations in the world, it has become a runing joke really - like that guy who protested against public health care but later asked for donnations to cover his medical bills.
And I am also not sure why we're talking about the potential issues for 'private' doctors when we talk about people getting treatment for fucking cancer and other serious health issues. Again, how many private doctors do you guys know that are ACTUALLY(!) suffering? I sure don't. Does it mean they have to adjust their prices, or do something else that isn't covered by public health care? Like offering people also a foot massage or toilet seats made of gold? Maybe! But god forbid, that there is a system that actually tries to help people that otherwise could not afford the treatment. Talking about obscure rare and hypothetical scenarios here ... private doctors having issues ... yeah, man.
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RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
Now, now. I don't hate democracy. I just hate the people who are apart of it. Its always some rich weirdo who is only looking to line is own pockets and doesn't give a damn about the common man. Would love for there to be democracy without the baggage.
Right, because Im not going to come up with a gameplan for some guy on the internet for if I suddenly needed almost $200k dollars I think we need to remove seat belts and fire extinguishers.
I'm not going to do this retarded shite because either of us could just make shit up and it's just going to be us asking eachother loaded questions made to make eachother look wrong. It's just pointless strawmanning.
What if you got cancer right now and you couldn't get any service in time to treat it but had enough money to go and get it at a private hospital? ;^)
Antiwarprofallout
It Wandered In From the Wastes
You're assuming the effects of a proposed system and complaining that I don't blindly accept your system because it's better than another.
Because you said that they'd be able to operate and be a legitimate competitor to state run healthcare, while facts show otherwise.
Making shit up ... mhmm, my mother didn't had to suffer from cancer and luckily because she was on healt hcare didn't had to pay 100 000 of euros to get a fucking treatment. Give me a brake. Again, what would your plan be in such a scenario? How old are you again Vergil? Could it be that you just left highschool like Iluminaty guy?
Antiwarprofallout
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Yes, it's impossible to know for sure if you're telling the truth. That's the nature of the internet.
We aren't discussing the what ifs of living in a welfare state, we're discussing the positives and negatives of different systems
Anecdotal "evidence" isn't.
There are always outliers and rare things that happen to some people, just because something happened in your life personally doesn't make it common enough to dictate the policy of how things should be run.
I understand you have a personal and emotional investment in a certain system that causes a kneejerk reaction but please try to understand that there are such things as norms and generalities and your life experiences may not coincide with them.
I could be 11 for all it matters to this discussion.
Which facts? Where are those private doctors with issues? Are we talking about the US or Germany right now?
OK. To get this straight. I am not telling you right now that you have to blindly accept the system. But ... the German one IS better if directly compared to the US. Like, when I just compare the experiences ... here people get ... health care and treatment, what a motherfucking surpise! In the US ... many people have to start ... donnor websites.
How is that something that makes you not shrug one or two eybrows? I never claimed that what we have in Germany, can be directly adobted by the US.
I just think it's simply ridiculous that the richest nation in the world can't get one system to work. Which exposes how deep lobbysm and corruption have become in the US as a whole.
Yeah, because people geting cancer is so rare and unlikely right, and the case I explained is as equall like talking about UFO stories. Even IF I would be lying in this case, it's still happening in Germany that people get cancer and ... regular treatment, without the need to overcommit.
He (or you for that matter) should then simply come up with, well I don't have any plan/idea what I would do then.
- But I get the feeling that we both know very damn well that if anyone of you guys got cancer tomorrow and no way to pay the treatment you would be faster looking for solutions then you can say Obamaandhealthcaresucks. Maybe even starting donnor websites. What the hell do I know what people without affordable health care do in such situations.
Having some experience in live, can change your perspective on things.
But it can't change facts.
THe fact that you don't have a plan if you had to pay 100 000$ in medical bills? True.
I never said I did or didn't. However theres no point because I can literally say anything I want. I could say right now I have an emergency savings account with 6gorillion dollars in it if I want to and I'd be able to easily cover it even if I was a very filthy homeless person in an internet cafe jiggling my coin cup at people passing by.
A speeding ticket will disqualify you from joining the police force where I live. Yet numerous FBI investigations won't preclude you from running for President of the United States. That's fucking laughable.
So long as we're discussing anecdotal evidence, I never get sick and any injuries I get are covered by my job's medical insurance plan. Despite that, I still pay for a public healthcare system that I literally never use. I suppose it's gratifying to get a nice warm feeling when I think about all the people's mums I've saved from cancer. But, if that's what I was after, I'd give to charity.
So long as we're discussing anecdotal evidence, I never get sick and any injuries I get are covered by my job's medical insurance plan. Despite that, I still pay for a public healthcare system that I literally never use. I suppose it's gratifying to get a nice warm feeling when I think about all the people's mums I've saved from cancer. But, if that's what I was after, I'd give to charity.
Jogre
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
But if paying for healthcare was like giving to charity, nobody would ever do it, and all those people's mums could have very well died from cancer.
I don't get this attitude of "I pay for a system I never use", like I'd happily pay a little extra tax if it means other people can afford healthcare.