Raven Rock

Brother None

This ghoul has seen it all
Orderite
This is an endgame location so heavy spoilers, obviously. Fuck spoiler tags. They're for fags. You've been warned.

Now I already noticed with my ultrasharp gamer sense (being an ubertrained game journo and everything) that this game lacks anything but the most sporadic attention to detail. Basically, wherever the hell Bethesda felt like it they pumped in a lot of love and detail, and the rest if half-baked half-assed uninterestingland. The fact that you can stand in fire in this game and not get hurt may not mean that much on the outside, but it sets alarm bells ringing with anyone who has seen this kind of nonsense before.

Apropos, there I was, about 25-30 hours in and bored to tears with wastelands (the POI compass system kills the fun of explorations, the wasteland is too crowded with uninteresting locations anyway) so I decided to round up the main quest.

Big mistake, because the very focal point where Bethesda doesn't just drop the ball but murders it in an alley and dumps it in the sewers is the main quest-line. I'm not even talking about the fact that you can't fast-travel your immortal father across the wasteland or that His Immortality still dies inexplicably some time later (I shot him in the head enough times, that never bothered him - tip in storytelling, Bethesda yokels: death doesn't work as a dramatic moment if it's set up like that), heck I'm not even complaining about the stupid German Nazi Enclave colonel (I literally laughed out loud when I first saw him), heck I won't even complain about the fact that Bethesda felt the need to actually taunt the player with children's immortality by making a town of annoying children.

Buuuut...

Then I bumped into Raven Rock.

Hooooley shit...I have rarely, oh so rarely, seen such an unfinished, crappy, ill-designed and badly-thought-through major location in an RPG, let alone an ending location of such low quality. Let me explain...no there's too much, let me sum up.

1. Conceptually, the whole thing is a linear traipse and a sludge-fest. Not scoring points there, and the predictably un-Fallout design doesn't help (Enclave doesn't really have a tradition of fitting in well with the Fallout setting, granted, but the "omfg look bodies floating in tanks!"-angle doesn't help, the faux-horror thing Bethesda tried leveraging into the game got old fast anyway)

2. After Eden gives the command not to kill you and before Colonel Faux-Nazi (I mean "Autumn") comes in with his astoundingly bad voice acting to countermand the order, you can just shoot anyone and everyone. Nobody cares, or even reacts. Amazing ineptitude.

3. Speaking of Eden, the whole sequence of him kidnapping you makes zero sense. Ok, so Faux-Nazi Colonel just wants the code from you and that makes sense (roughly up until the point where he suddenly commands his men to shoot you...he doesn't care about the code anymore? Ran out of frazzle-bombs to fry your nerves?), but what the hell is up with Eden? The best explanation can be "no, no, I can't trust Colonel Nazi-Guy anymore". What, are you kidding me? So you're going to hand the job to a random stranger you picked off the street who - gee I dunno - has helped a bunch of ghouls slaughter ghoul-haters to take over their tower and was travelling with a ghoul when you found him? Yeah, you sure know how to pic 'em.

I know he doesn't speak face-to-face to anyone except Colonel Nazi-Overcoat, so ok he doesn't have his pick of soldiers he knows well. And after its clear Autumn and he can't work together it makes sense he goes with the PC because that's his last hope, but something is wonky in between. Why go with the PC at all? Why not solicit the services of a mercenary, or invite some soldiers into the office to talk to (or heck, just page 'em privately...what, the dude holds sway over the entire building be he can't reach a private soldier?)

Plot. Broken.

4. And yes, you knew it was coming, the suicide talk. That is some of the most astoundingly bad writing I have ever seen. It's as bad as Harold going "well, hmmm, I never considered that" over an insignificant remark, suddenly all his suicide tendencies fade away. It's like that but in reverse with Eden, and it's just as jarring and unconvincing.

So, ok, possibilities: somehow this dialogue is a cut-out of dialogue that is bigger in reality? No, fuck you. Somehow it makes sense that Eden, when confronted with a new idea, will commit suicide. Fair enough, though I doubt it's so easy to trick a 200-year old machine, but here's the thing: there's still set sci fi ways of expressing these kind of "shock into realisation" moments for machines. Y'know, "teach me about love, hu-man", that kind of shit.

It should never, ever go like this:
PC: "[speech] This has to end, Eden. You need to destroy yourself and your base"
E: "And why would I do that, when I am clearly the best hope for the people of the Wasteland?"
PC: "You can't just decide to take over, and force everyone to follow you."
E: "What alternative would you suggest? Without the Enclave, what would the world do?"
PC: "If you don't stop it now, where will it end? It's up to you to do what's right."
E: "Yes, I suppose it is. Very well, you shall have your wish. Once you have left, I will put an end to the Enclave."

What. The. Fuck.

That's not even a dialogue, it's a bunch of disjointed sentences thrown together. It's like they were both high and just talking to whatever the hell they were seeing. I honestly could not believe the horrible low level of writing shown in that bit, and Fallout 3 had set me up with some pretty bad writing before that.

Seriously, "if you don't stop it now, where will it end?" What the FUCK is this guy talking about?
 
lol, didn't get this far yet, so I can't comment on it.

i love my immortal dad though. after shooting like 6 times with his .32 revolver, he picked up a lead pipe and decided to kick ass while flaunting his elite vault outfit. "it's not going to end this way" (or some such hugely inspirational taunt) and he charged the super mutant hold-out near Rivet City and slugged the inhabitants into a bloody pulp with his lead pipe.

he's such a badass, not even bothering to pick up firearms or anything.

your only reason to bash him is that you're clearly jealous that you will never be as badass as James...
 
I played through this today also, and I can only say that I agree. The main plot is terrible and it just gets worse the more it goes on. At the start, it works all-right because of teh mystary!!1, more of an excuse to sort of you get you going, exploring the wasteland. But the "deeper" you get into the plot, the more horrible it becomes. Especially since the game suffers from "we must have lots of combat, otherwise it won't be exciting!" syndrome, just like in Oblivion.

I'm dreading what I assume is the final mission.

I've found the rest of the game to be pretty fun. Exploring the wasteland for the first time worked better for me than I thought it would, but it gets boring after a while... Really boring even. But yep, the main quest takes the cake for being a real piece of shit.
 
Starwars said:
I'm dreading what I assume is the final mission

The end mission is head-slappingly stupid, completely un-Fallout but will tickle anyone's nerd-glands. The entire ending sequence is one of the most pointless ones I've ever seen, and contains another plothole

[spoiler:9ae70048c8]Fawkes not stepping into the chamber for you. What the fuck? They couldn't even bother to come up with a plausible reason for this other than "Fawkes is insane yo"

The fact that all of a sudden there are force-fields between the Citadel and Jefferson M is :facepalm: too. It's just too painfully obvious they're only there to give the stupid robot a reason to be in the game. Most pointless sequence ever.[/spoiler:9ae70048c8]
 
I liked Raven Rock, to be honest, although the layout is truly confusing and annoying. The art looks good, the inclusion of Nathan from Megaton made me chuckle and it had that badass aura to it... right until I started slaughtering Enclave soldiers with VATS.

Eden's dialogue looks as if one half was written by a guy with a decent amount of talent and the other by a hack. The hack one was the dialogue path BN quoted, I used the more interesting "circular paradox" one.
 
What the hell!? :shock:

Yeez, it makes my little fan redesign of Fallout 3 look like the work of genius.
It sounds unfortunate a little like Tactics, but compared to this that is only praise worthy.
 
Yeah, the outcome of the main quest is terrible. Starting from OMG HORROR Vault 87 and further.

Raven Rock is a faceless location with a shitty writing.

[spoiler:37b6d2660e]Then goes the crazy giant robot fragfest, where all you do is looting the dead bodies. Tesla armor, Gatling laser, you know.
And I don't know whether it was intended, but when a caravan of Lucky Harith came up to the PP location, that robot sliced poor merchant, his guard and brahmin into pieces.[/spoiler:37b6d2660e]
 
I have to agree with BN on this one. I just finished the game.. however that that's saying much. (It only took 30 seconds to break the quest line and begin at Rivet City quests completely bypassing anything before it. I hear you can skip even more..)
And not only do I feel entirely unsatisfied with the incomplete ending and the shoddy dialogue, but during the credits I see absolutely no *credit* given to Interplay or Black Isle.

Actually. I should be thankful they offered no connection to the classics, lest a player think they were playing a sequel. :roll:
 
ouch...that was harsh.

just ordered the game some hours ago. my roleplaying expectations have dropped another two notches.
 
schatzi said:
ouch...that was harsh.

just ordered the game some hours ago. my roleplaying expectations have dropped another two notches.

Sorry to read that...

I haven't completed the game yet, i don't know if I'm ever going to complete it. My computer doesn't allow me, it's getting worse. It's stupid that there is not many differences in changing the graphics options. I could play MoH 4: Modern Warefare with some small problems, but FO3? Forget it! Even that the graphics are worse and animations in FO3, still it works like a turtle sometimes.
I think it's because there's too much light, bloom in this game and pieces of unnecessary junk!

And even that, it started getting me annoying with this combat. I can't fully play this game with VATS, and stupid weapons when they get a bit broke it takes stupid hours for them to load another mag!

Most of the sub quests are about killing someone. Freaking BoS couldn't resist the mutants' attack but me (a guy with few guns) ripped them all apart!!
 
Brother None said:
[spoiler:a67bd5a085]Fawkes not stepping into the chamber for you. What the fuck? They couldn't even bother to come up with a plausible reason for this other than "Fawkes is insane yo"[/spoiler:a67bd5a085]

Oh lord yes. I thought the same. He gave me the GECK, he was going into the heavy radiated thing, took the GECK and gave it to me. And at the end it is not possible to send him in to activate the shit - and he was the only one who could do it without dying..

Also the end video sucked pretty much. Is it really possible to get more than 200xy endings even with permutation? I don't think so - if they don't mean, changing the diashow images is a new ending.
 
Second that on the ending video. I was expecting to hear about what happened to Megaton, Big Town, Three Dog, etc. All I got was a slideshow. Blah.
 
You know what I really didn't understand was how Nathan got there from Megaton. You can't even free him or really talk to him at all because he's apparently 'fleeing' in his cell the whole time.
 
Lexx said:
Oh lord yes. I thought the same. He gave me the GECK, he was going into the heavy radiated thing, took the GECK and gave it to me. And at the end it is not possible to send him in to activate the shit - and he was the only one who could do it without dying..

my thoughts exactly. ok, maybe his fat mutated fingers would have typed 36316387163894 instead of the required combination. which was the easiest "secret" ever, btw.

i agree on the dialogue-part. i remember debating with the master. yes, DEBATING, that his whole new race is infertile. whereas with eden i click the 3 obvious answers and BAM, he's down. then i have to watch the destruct-o-tron 5000 blow up an endless stream of enclave soldiers (who spawn from walls, btw) and after that, obviously kill the colonel. i know you can talk him out of it, but that path broke the quest logic and i was stuck in the chamber with nothing to do and no one to talk to. *sigh*

"what do you mean, one of us has to go? it's not like i don't have my friend here with me, who is IMMUNE to radiation."
"err."

whatever. self sacrifice ftw.
 
Also the end video sucked pretty much. Is it really possible to get more than 200xy endings even with permutation? I don't think so - if they don't mean, changing the diashow images is a new ending.

They do mean the image changes, it seems. There are only 8 permutations of the narration.
 
I actually just finished it last night for the first time....

I'm with Brother None.....

What. The. Fuck.

EDIT: I was debating in my head about Liberty Prime.
I wasn't sure if I should love or hate it.
 
Conceptually, I really liked Liberty Prime. The whole "Our super-weapon of mass destruction will be a giant robot designed to kick Commie ass!" is great within the context of the world, IMO.

However... for the 10 minutes that this robot was somehow relevant in the game, all he did was sort of cheapen the experience of the assault.
 
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