Russia attacks Ukraine

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by DarkCorp, Feb 24, 2022.

  1. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    My 5 cents remain that it is entirely unecesary to do anything to Moldova, since Transnistria is already separate from Moldova by treaty, and has functioned as an independent pro-Russian state for the past 31 years. Again - I might be surprised by their stupidity here, but all Russia has to do is clear the land _until_ Transnistria, and simply connect territories. Transnistria would very likely fall right in line, the same way Donbass already do - being pro-Russian and already occupied by Russian forces.

    Transnistria is separated from Moldova by the Dniester river, thereof the name: Trans - Dniestria :0

    Easy mode would be: Consider the Dniester to be the frontier, and incorporate Transnistria into Russian sphere OR
    Stupid mode: Consider Carpathians the frontier, and go for all of Moldova (and as such, escalate things a huge lot) - this would make little sense, if western Ukraine were also not occupied, so... they'd have their work cut out for them.

    Edit, final musings; Moldova as well as the international community (save for Russia and their non-state allies, Abkhazia, Artsakh and S. Ossetia) consider Transnistria an integral part of Moldova, I think M. considers them merely autonomous or something - so - technically, military action in Transnistria is the same as action in Moldova, but practically speaking, it is not. How this will express itself in reality, I couldn't even guess.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2022
  2. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign ⛧卐⛧ Staff Member Moderator [REDACTED]

    Apr 1, 2005
    I heard Russia was gonna INVADE some COUNTRY but everyone KNOWS THAT WOULD START A NUKE WAR.



    Oh also WORLD WAR 3.

    :revolution:

    Why has this not been in the news? Maybe people thought they never stopped blowing each other up?
     
  3. Sn1p3r187

    Sn1p3r187 Carolinian Shaolin Monk

    Apr 7, 2014
    Oh, how is the war in Donbas going at the moment? i hear Russia is really getting their asses handed to them. But i doubt itll be for long
     
  4. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    Well, the already occupied parts are pretty stable (those that fall under the "independent" states), but yeah - from what I understand, the frontlines there are just entrenched by now, and I am still sortof waiting for their "massive eastern offensive". You can find tons of anecdotal stories of incompetence - or maybe more accurate - disinterest. I really don't know what the plan is, beyond "somehow end up controlling all of southern Ukraine" other than just stubborn attrition
     
  5. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign ⛧卐⛧ Staff Member Moderator [REDACTED]

    Apr 1, 2005
    Last edited: May 2, 2022
  6. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    I wonder if we couldn't just give, I don't know, pills to Putin about his small penis fixing it. That way he does not have a need anymore to invade other countries.
     
  7. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    This has more to do with blind "duginism" than anything else - an extremely pragmatic world view, where war is always a fact, wether it is armed or passive.
    Once you view it through such a lens, Ukraine's entire landscape is a passage towards Russia's oil and gas pipelines, and a NATO-allied Ukraine becomes a complete and utter impossibility - something that must be obliterated no matter the cost: Which is what we are seeing - the military charge is blind rage, "no matter the cost" through and through, no planning, no organization - just a wild dash to destroy Ukraine as a direct reaction to their inching towards NATO.

    There are many further elements to this world view, another is the sense of wasted history, Russian vicories in gathering territory for the Russian Empire, the USSR - territory that was strategic in its limit - for example, the USSR had the Carpathian mountains as a defensive line, the Russian Federation does not. The USSR had all of Central Asia as a buffer, the Russian Federation does not, Russian Empire had Finland to buffer away from St. Petersburg area and Warsaw Pact had Poland to block the European Plains corridor - the invasion-highway from Germany towards Moscow - all of this, which might seem pragmatic, obsessive and overly theoretical, is a serious preoccupation to the Russian elite

    Personally, I can even see their concern; these are gaps in the armor, and NATO is a hostile entity, and there is a chance Russia might face invasion and dismantling for the purpose of foreign investment in smaller more manageable entities, resource extraction and all that - if not in this century, maybe the next - or the one after.

    But as living, breathing person is a neighboring country to Russia, I can really only say "well, sucks for them." and basically just hope for their complete collapse, and the end of the Russian Federation - if it's going to be *that* fucking aggro and paranoid all the time. To be fair, I share similar sentiment with the US, for example, as well as China. If they're going to insist on dominating the world, just because they have become too big to slow down, then fuck it - let them collapse, if that means the rest of us can live in peace
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  8. Morgan_

    Morgan_ Duckerz

    Jul 3, 2020
  9. william dempsey

    william dempsey Veteran of the psychic wars. [REDACTED]

    Jan 23, 2022
    let them collapse, if that means the rest of us can live in peace. Who are them ?
     
  10. TheGM

    TheGM The voice of reason

    Aug 19, 2008
    How is it news? Does anybody give a shit? these are questions that would probably be getting asked if they weren't happening for the umpteenth time in the ass end of the world people have heard about for the last 20+ years.

    Is something what a jerk would say.
     
  11. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign ⛧卐⛧ Staff Member Moderator [REDACTED]

    Apr 1, 2005
    It's news because it belongs in the WW3 pile. The more countries go to war the more likely other countries are to start a war. It's fun to add them up. You should play.
     
  12. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Yeah, a military historian from a German tank museum told in a video on their youtubechanel about the offensive in Ukraine that Putin isn't exactly doing anything special in particular here. Historically speaking of course. Since what he has done now was a common thing for rulers. Solving geopolitical issues by force. So it should technically not be a surrpise. But it kinda is, because no one expected someone to do this machiavellian thing in the 2ßth century. This kind of "war is politics by other means" approach. Putin himself must be probably pretty surprised that everyone was like, oh no you didn't invade Ukraine! I mean in technically he has not done anything different compared to how Russia was dealing with his neighbours in the last 30 years. Like, you guys let me fuck Goergia but not Ukraine? What's wrong with you!

    My theoriy is that NATO and well The West, was kinda gambling as well. They probably didn't expect this kind of full military invasion. Maybe a push for the Donbass if anything. Russia anexing parts of eastern Ukraine and that's it. If I was from Ukraine I would be almost as mad at NATO and Europe as with Russia. I mean Russia is obviously the aggressor that should take the blame here. But this whole shitshow has a long history of events behind it leading to it. And NATO and Europe are not just simply uninterested neutral bystanders here.

    I wonder though if Ukraine never gave up the soviet nuklear arsenal. Would things be different today?

    I see what you're saying and I agree with the thought. Particularly as Russia has seen quite a few invasions on their soil from the Zarist time to the Soviet Union. So yeah this thinking does play a big role in their culture. Not to mention that they have some kind of inferiority complex there too. Because technically the US with NATO won the cold war and the Soviets lost.

    However at this point I believe it's also a self fulling prophecy. By attacking Ukraine they are not strenghtening their >armour< I believe. They are probably going to destroy their security and defense for years to come. If not decades. Particularly when you consider how important economic ties are today. I mean when you look alone at how many skilled people decided to leave Russia recently due to the war? That alone is pretty heavy! The brain drain is real. And people with better education and skills usually tend to be kinda more informed and less affected by propaganda too.

    Russia fears NATO so much that they might become a pawn for China in the future. Economically speaking. There is, I think, this saying in China? If you keep both arms around your enemy he can't stab you. Or something like that.
    And of course instead of looking inward, which Russians should, to fixing things they, fighting corruption and the oligarchy, they will blame outside forces, go for conspiracy theories and maybe get more nationalistic as a result. Who ever follows Putin could become even worse. I mean when their leaders now go full isolationism, who else but China and probably India will they find to get support? It's like Russia shot themself in the head because their foot hurt or something. I don't know. This is complicated. But seriously if Putin really wants to destroy this legacy I guess this is it.

    We probably won't. Pax Romana. If empires collapse ... it usually never happens peacefully. Because nature does not tolerate a vacuum. If powers like the US, China or Russia become weaker or dissapear entirely, others will emerge and take up their place. Which means more conflicts, wars and so on.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2022
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  13. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    They might strenghten their "armor" in a very strict "Hearts of Iron" kind of sense, but yeah - in the bigger picture, this is a shitshow without comparison; they really only got a pyrrhic victory to achieve now - to FORCE the territorial situation that they are seeking, but one they can only win by grinding up countless more conscripts, pushing attrition to the limit - or by actually employing tactical nuclear strikes. Ukrainians are already well beyond the point of any reconciliation with Russia *and* the Russian people; and while Russian populace are being fed propaganda, this sort of control is unstable, and many Russian youth know reality - and ten years from now, twenty - when their darling neighbor "little Russians" still refuse to *ever* forgive, public shame might become a very real thing. Russia was already bleeding demographics, bleeding brains - they're gonna have to ban people from emigrating, or something - at least ban people from looking sad and ashamed for the next century.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2022
  14. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Precicely Watson. And then there is also Sweden and the Meth fueled Fins joining Nato. Like the whole thing of Ukraine not existing was to have this "buffer" between NATO and Mother Russia. Even if they get Ukraine they might end up with like what? A 1300 km Border to a NATO State that's not only well trained but also having a pretty modern military?

    You really have to wonder if Putin actually became senile or lost his mind or something.
     
  15. TheGM

    TheGM The voice of reason

    Aug 19, 2008
    MUH SPHERES OF INFLUENCE!
     
  16. william dempsey

    william dempsey Veteran of the psychic wars. [REDACTED]

    Jan 23, 2022
    I've never played that. Is it like Pillars of Eternity
     
  17. TheGM

    TheGM The voice of reason

    Aug 19, 2008
    They called it Marble Madness in some countries.
     
  18. william dempsey

    william dempsey Veteran of the psychic wars. [REDACTED]

    Jan 23, 2022
    I had worms once.Better than crabs though. dikk.jpg
     
  19. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Worms is how Toront plays Geopolitics.
     
  20. Sn1p3r187

    Sn1p3r187 Carolinian Shaolin Monk

    Apr 7, 2014
    Im gonna go with the latter. He's nuttier than squirrel shit and it shows. Someone senile wouldve at least been kind enough to forget about that he's fighting a war against ukraine