Russian-Ukrainian war

So what if its hypocritical, its TRUE.

And yes, a couple of people here admit Putins a fuckhead but he stands up to NATO so he is friggin awesome.

I hear not one chant of Death to Russia/Putin even though many have stated hes an asshole.


US is guilty of shit in past so now every legitimate spring/protest is EVIL AMERIKAN conpiracy.

So yea, plenty of hate boners here.
 
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DarkCorp said:
So what if its hypocritical, its TRUE.

And yes, a couple of people here admit Putins a fuckhead but he stands up to NATO so he is friggin awesome.

I hear not one chant of Death to Russia/Putin even though many have stated hes an asshole.


US is guilty of shit in past so now every legitimate spring/protest is EVIL AMERIKAN conpiracy.

So yea, plenty of hate boners here.
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So accusing Russia is fine, yet no one cares about what they do?

Oh okay then.

US is still guilty of shit. They were guilty of so much crap since World War 2. They haven't officially been in a war since then!
 
There is no Russian-Ukrainian war. Period. I just don't see what people don't understand here. Crimea is a seprate subject (and yeah, show me a NATO "peacekeeping" occupation carried out for without a single fired bullet... but when nobody dies godess Democracy is displeased, it would seem).

Just because Kiev is embarassing itself over and over again doesn't mean that there's a Russian intervention (which is not to say that there is no Russian aid). Ukraine is a split country. It was created out of an administrative unit, like Bosnia. The difference being that the vast majority of the Ukrainian population is Ukrainian.

What the media is trying to portray is that there is a unified Ukrainian nation fighting these pro-Russian separatists. And anyone with the most basic knowledge of mathemathics and common technology can debunk that. The truth is that Ukraine is a split nation. East and west Ukraine have absolutely nothing in common, other than the fact that the EVIL Russians put them into the same administrative unit as to spread their own territory.

Why is Putin a fuckhead? I can see such a criticism from a citizen of the Russian Federation as legitimate, but coming from a citizen of any western country, it's nothing other than the purest example of hipocrisy. And I don't mean the "you did shit a hundred years ago and you're shitting on people doing it now" kind of hipocrisy, I mean the "you're doing much worse shit now and you're shitting on people trying to protect themselves from you" kind of hipocrisy.
 
LordAshur said:
There is no Russian-Ukrainian war. Period. I just don't see what people don't understand here. Crimea is a seprate subject (and yeah, show me a NATO "peacekeeping" occupation carried out for without a single fired bullet... but when nobody dies godess Democracy is displeased, it would seem).

Just because Kiev is embarassing itself over and over again doesn't mean that there's a Russian intervention (which is not to say that there is no Russian aid). Ukraine is a split country. It was created out of an administrative unit, like Bosnia. The difference being that the vast majority of the Ukrainian population is Ukrainian.

What the media is trying to portray is that there is a unified Ukrainian nation fighting these pro-Russian separatists. And anyone with the most basic knowledge of mathemathics and common technology can debunk that. The truth is that Ukraine is a split nation. East and west Ukraine have absolutely nothing in common, other than the fact that the EVIL Russians put them into the same administrative unit as to spread their own territory.

Why is Putin a fuckhead? I can see such a criticism from a citizen of the Russian Federation as legitimate, but coming from a citizen of any western country, it's nothing other than the purest example of hipocrisy. And I don't mean the "you did shit a hundred years ago and you're shitting on people doing it now" kind of hipocrisy, I mean the "you're doing much worse shit now and you're shitting on people trying to protect themselves from you" kind of hipocrisy.
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Hear, hear!
 
LA, until there is solid evidence to the contrary, none of the arab spring movements have anything to do with the U.S. Same with maiden.

Unfortunately, our other chats were deleted instead of vatted, as I have fully explained how many problems in the ME, are a direct result of sectarianism and that has nothing to do with the U.S.

I say how long can folks keep blaming the west while turning a blind eye to the MANY problems that cripple a nation, like Greeces inability to tax efficiently yet still keep their social programs full bore.

And TBH, people jerk their hate boners off here blaming america for everything under the sun yet I can't say anything about Putin?

You folks are right, there is some serious hypocritical bullshit here.
 
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You can say about Putin what ever you want.

It's just that you can say more about Obama right now.

You can also say about Russia what ever you want.

It's just that you can say more about the USA right now.

The real issue is the idea that West = good, East = evil. Which is the most stupid idea ever. It was not true during the Cold War and it is even less true today. What we are talking about isn't human rights but mining rights.

The US supported the Ukraine with 5 billion dollar long before the conflict. Right after Maidan companies like Chefron moved in to make billion dollar deals, which they canceled because of the civil war. And anyone reading the Ukraine–European Union Association Agreement simply had to know that it rips the nation appart.
 
I never said Putin was evil, hes an asshole. Many folks can be assholes without being evil.

Yes Crni, our past chats have clearly pointed out the cold war was a dick swinging match between the U.S. and U.S.S.R.

So far, Iraq and Afghanistan are American problems post cold war, hardly proof of, evilz american conspiracies to ruin poor nations and that everything wrong in the world is because of Murrica.
 
DarkCorp said:
LA, until there is solid evidence to the contrary, none of the arab spring movements have anything to do with the U.S. Same with maiden.

Unfortunately, our other chats were deleted instead of vatted, as I have fully explained how many problems in the ME, are a direct result of sectarianism and that has nothing to do with the U.S.

I say how long can folks keep blaming the west while turning a blind eye to the MANY problems that cripple a nation, like Greeces inability to tax efficiently yet still keep their social programs full bore.

And TBH, people jerk their hate boners off here blaming america for everything under the sun yet I can't say anything about Putin?

You folks are right, there is some serious hypocritical bullshit here.
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You can complain about Putin and Russia all you like, they're not great BUT America is worse! They have supplied almost every major terrorist group which now fights them during the Afghanistan war. They LOVE Syria because it can turn into another Iraq, and strengthen their power base in the middle east. They have military bases in various countries around the world!

Nothing to do with the US... American troops in Africa attacking Al Quaeda there actually flamed them spanning a rise in terrorist attacks. America has funded various terrorist groups against the unfair invasion of Afghanistan by Russia so yeah, all those terror problems were sourced by America. Where do you think they got their guns in the first place? Allah maybe?
 
Uh, this is exactly what I explained in other threads.

Guns, LOL. Most terrorists brandish the Avtomat Kalashnikova.

We supported the mujihadeen, NOT, AL QAEDA, both Bin Laden and Al zwarhiri confirmed this. If you bothered to view the facts, what the mujihadeen do with with weapons afterwards is out of our control.

By your argument, Russia is a BILLION times worse with the killing of natives in Ukraine to transplant soviets onto Ukranian soil. The U.S.S.R. leeched off its Warsaw Pact allies. Numerous purges. Support for communist governments no matter how bad, as long as they were anti-U.S. NATO. How many weapons were proliferated by the Soviets?

Atleast our government didn't send thousands of its own citizens to gulags and executions.

When the soviets left, the afghanis fought amongst themselves in a civil war, that has fuckall to do with the U.S.

Ah yes, it was an evilz american conspiracy and not actual syrians who were tired of Assad, that caused the war. Please jerk off more.
 
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Like I said, by now American military presence everywhere is considered normal, and nothing to criticize. Any other country does the same thing, they are evil. If this evil is then turned around back to America, then we are being backwards and totally off the trend, since we have clearly forgotten that criticizing America is sooo passe.

Yes Russia is bullying its neighbors. America has been bullying its entire continent, well, save for Canada I guess... And that's just for starters, let's just bring up the Iraq war.
"Yes but" yes but nothing. America attacked and fucking conquered Iraq - for absolutely no good goddamn reason.
"Yes but" yes but nothing
"Yes but" yes but nothing
"Yes but" yes but nothing
"Yes but" yes but nothing
"Yes but" yes but nothing
"Yes but" yes but nothing
"Yes but Russia - !!!"
 
zegh8578 said:
Like I said, by now American military presence everywhere is considered normal, and nothing to criticize. Any other country does the same thing, they are evil. If this evil is then turned around back to America, then we are being backwards and totally off the trend, since we have clearly forgotten that criticizing America is sooo passe.

Yes Russia is bullying its neighbors. America has been bullying its entire continent, well, save for Canada I guess... And that's just for starters, let's just bring up the Iraq war.
"Yes but" yes but nothing. America attacked and fucking conquered Iraq - for absolutely no good goddamn reason.
"Yes but" yes but nothing
"Yes but" yes but nothing
"Yes but" yes but nothing
"Yes but" yes but nothing
"Yes but" yes but nothing
"Yes but" yes but nothing
"Yes but Russia - !!!"
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Try to make some sense in your next post.
 
Beaushizzle said:
zegh8578 said:
Like I said, by now American military presence everywhere is considered normal, and nothing to criticize. Any other country does the same thing, they are evil. If this evil is then turned around back to America, then we are being backwards and totally off the trend, since we have clearly forgotten that criticizing America is sooo passe.

Yes Russia is bullying its neighbors. America has been bullying its entire continent, well, save for Canada I guess... And that's just for starters, let's just bring up the Iraq war.
"Yes but" yes but nothing. America attacked and fucking conquered Iraq - for absolutely no good goddamn reason.
"Yes but" yes but nothing
"Yes but" yes but nothing
"Yes but" yes but nothing
"Yes but" yes but nothing
"Yes but" yes but nothing
"Yes but" yes but nothing
"Yes but Russia - !!!"
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Try to make some sense in your next post.
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I allready did make sense. Not my problem that you fail to grasp even the simplest of points.
 
So Russia has also recently landed in Syria and promised to help the local government in their own internal conflict.

Some people don't want to support Syria because they don't support it's dictator, but if Syria/Russia loses, that means ISIS wins...
 
Don't worry, Al Quaeda also declared war on IS, everything will be fine.
 
The problem with American values is that they have no perception of longevity. They cannot view problems over the horizon of what they are staring at.

The American system in power at this moment is more concerned with Israel, and its oil market. They criticize these dictators because they want complete control over the oil market because they cannot or are unwilling to do the work within their own government to facilitate an economy that is not reliant on being oil barons.

If we do not control the oil directly, we are a mercenary military force that extorts oil producing countries to use or market system, and trade in USD only.

This is a very controversial topic that is on the edge of saying too much, but it has to be expressed somewhere. There will be more chaos in Middle Asia if Syria falls. These neo-con think-tanks may think they are doing the right thing for the western world in trying to maintain a presence in the area and using guerrilla CIA tactics to de-stabilize governments to maintain control of the oil and opium market, however there will not be a future where Middle Asia is occupied by the western empires.

This assumption comes without recognizing the effect of the post-modern ideology and technology we have developed. The entire western world is not going to give up their freedoms and cultures that have sprung from our development. The world will change slowly overtime to a system that is more efficient and free in this sense.

The entire Middle Asia campaign is a unnecessary risk that is working counter to the goals that neo-conservative imperialists in NATO are trying to stage. It is a society that wants IMMEDIATE gratification which is going to put the entire world at the brink again of nuclear war.


You cannot kill ideas with bullets. You can only change minds through leadership by example. Muslims themselves are not at the infrastructure to accept these ideologies that we have developed in the past four-hundred years. If we ever want to see progress in the area, destroying their infrastructure is not going to lead us in a positive direction. It will only breed more radical Muslim paramilitary organizations.
 
The problem with American values is that they have no perception of longevity. They cannot view problems over the horizon of what they are staring at.
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Talking a bit from my experience - I am still someone with a Serbian heritage. I can asure you, that this is not the problem really. Or definitely not the biggest one. People understand the american definition of freedom very well. What worries them is what's left of it when it arrives here - with here I mean in general the kind of actions that take place in nations like Kosovo or Syria or Lybia, Irak etc. I believe that the higher ranking officials in the US government and military know very well what they are doing.

I think the CIA had some report somewhere which shows that the war on terror and counter terrorism by the US governement since 9/11 actually increased the attacks, terrorism and hostility against US citizens. Drone strikes for example are one of the top arguments by terrorist groups for recruting members. And some of them have never seen as much popularity like today. On the other side the US military has increased their budged to vast proportions since the late 1990s, particulary after 9/11 though.

The real thing is, with (islamic) terrorism the US military and government can create a win win situation. On one side it creates a constant situation of fear while not beeing actually realistic threat - the chance to die to a terrorist attack for the average US citizen is what? 0,1%? And it is also not likely that religous fanatic muslims will overthrow the US government any time soon. But it makes it easier to concentrate on foreign affairs rather than domestic policy and pacing questionable/uncomfortable laws and it allows the military to increase their budged every year. A Win-Win situation.
 
Crni Vuk said:
The problem with American values is that they have no perception of longevity. They cannot view problems over the horizon of what they are staring at.
Click to expand...
Talking a bit from my experience - I am still someone with a Serbian heritage. I can asure you, that this is not the problem really. Or definitely not the biggest one. People understand the american definition of freedom very well. What worries them is what's left of it when it arrives here - with here I mean in general the kind of actions that take place in nations like Kosovo or Syria or Lybia, Irak etc. I believe that the higher ranking officials in the US government and military know very well what they are doing.

I think the CIA had some report somewhere which shows that the war on terror and counter terrorism by the US governement since 9/11 actually increased the attacks, terrorism and hostility against US citizens. Drone strikes for example are one of the top arguments by terrorist groups for recruting members. And some of them have never seen as much popularity like today. On the other side the US military has increased their budged to vast proportions since the late 1990s, particulary after 9/11 though.

The real thing is, with (islamic) terrorism the US military and government can create a win win situation. On one side it creates a constant situation of fear while not beeing actually realistic threat - the chance to die to a terrorist attack for the average US citizen is what? 0,1%? And it is also not likely that religous fanatic muslims will overthrow the US government any time soon. But it makes it easier to concentrate on foreign affairs rather than domestic policy and pacing questionable/uncomfortable laws and it allows the military to increase their budged every year. A Win-Win situation.
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No. What they don't understand is that this action of elevating reasons to attack the Middle East will lead nowhere. More military, higher coffers...doesn't matter.

CHINA AND RUSSIA WILL NOT PLAY BALL.

We aren't dealing with Muslims. We are dealing with the two remaining super-powers. The Muslims are of no consequence. There needs to be a new way to increase military deterent outside of what we are currently doing in the Middle East, and here in the western world at home by creating a police state.
 
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