Russian-Ukrainian war

Hassknecht said:
What would be the negative effects on the EU from this agreement?
And aren't free markets and trade your solution for everything?
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It being a common market doesn't make it a free one.

The only thing the EU is going to get out if it is cheap labor, and access to some natural resources, the Ukrainians can't really afford to buy many European products. I'm not sure how Ukrainian products can compete in the EU market, or if they can at all. In terms of aid, it's going to take huge amounts of money to make Ukraine even resemble a normally functioning country. It's also a safe bet that trade with Russia is going to remain crippled for a longer time.

And then there's the whole question of whether or not it's smart to sign agreements with governments of dubious legitimacy which are engaged in a civil war.

The only way it could good for the EU is as a long, long term investment, the kind a union facing a massive immigration crisis, near-bankruptcy of some of its members and others possibly leaving the union can't afford to make.
 
I will be voting no.
Yanis Varoufakis said:
In this geopolitical context, Brussels’ ambitions ought to be curtailed. The European Commission is clueless, regarding the goings on in the Ukraine, and the less involved they get the better for everyone. Indeed, the EU apparatchiks resemble Rome’s last emperors who, foolishly, thought that extending the Empire’s borders was all that mattered, when in reality the problem was that the Empire’s core was rotting.

http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2014/03/0...stern-liberals-and-a-comment-on-the-eus-role/
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In my limited, mostly ignorant perspective, this man is the authority on political criticism on the european union. So I'm with him.
 
zegh8578 said:
What, the war? :V
It'll continue untill Ukraine has recaptured Crimea, Russia has annihilated all threats to itself, or Ukraine and Russia decide to stop quarreling, and just get along allready! :V
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When will Ukraine recapture Crimea? I'm surprised it hasn't be done yet.
 
Sn1p3r187 said:
When will Ukraine recapture Crimea? I'm surprised it hasn't be done yet.
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Ukraine has started demobilizing recently because they went broke. Again.

Akratus said:
I will be voting no.

In my limited, mostly ignorant perspective, this man is the authority on political criticism on the european union. So I'm with him.
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Not that I disagree with your decision, but which of his arguments persuaded you?
 
Fuck man, I don't know. I just want to make the most informed decision, but I can't really find a well researched source to base it off. It's not like it matters in the end since it seems like most people will just vote no.
 
Sn1p3r187 said:
When will Ukraine recapture Crimea? I'm surprised it hasn't be done yet.
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They can't :D
Simple as that

To use the "playground analogy", Russia is like a very big, strong, half-bearded kid, who walks up to you, takes your toy, and says "Thanks for giving it to me, so freely" while you look around, desperately, for anybody to back you up. Everyone around you looks around their own shoulders, whistle distractedly, and go "Hey, you gave it to him."

Superpowers sometimes do shit like this. Not always, but sometimes. Russia did the same thing with South Ossetia, in Georgia. "We will take that now." Georgia all "Hey world, world, look, look world!" World all "yes yes, sheesh, here you go: Inspectors! They will inspect!" "Inspect?" "Yes, inspect. They'll inspect the shit out of the situation!"

To be fair, the boss of doing stuff like this is the USA - "Let's bomb Iraq!" UN + World "That would be illegal, so... let's not, allright?" USA "I said LET'S >:I"
*Iraq bombed by willing coalition*

Take that Russia
 
It bothers me a lot that i love Russia but i love Ukraine even more. I support a lot of things Russia do and then they just had to mess with my favorite country.

So now i'm torn between "fuck you Putin!" and "good job Putin!" :|
 
Sn1p3r187 said:
When will Ukraine recapture Crimea? I'm surprised it hasn't be done yet.
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Recapture Crimea? In which parallel universe, the one where Ukraine had 5 times the size, an actuall military power that could rival others, wasn't struggling with a civil war, political instability, a corrupt government and an economical crisis? Russia is sure not the Sowjetunion, but Russia is hardly a push over either. If Russia has serious ambitions to hold the Crimea, there is not much chance for Ukraine to get it back.

It sure sucks for Ukraine, I wish them be best in the world, but with Russia as neighbour ... well good luck, you will need it! - By the way I am not anti Russian, but com on, they are heated by a lot of people in Eastern Europe, and that for a reason.
 
Makta said:
It bothers me a lot that i love Russia but i love Ukraine even more. I support a lot of things Russia do and then they just had to mess with my favorite country.

So now i'm torn between "fuck you Putin!" and "good job Putin!" :|
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I'm not talking politics here, but what kind of weirdo does someone have to be for Ukraine of all places to be his favorite country?
Other than a Ukrainian, that is, and I'm sure even many of them would have reservations over it.
 
The only Legion-like faction in our world is ISIS, and they're even worse faggots than the one in the game. The EU, Ukriane and Russia are all NCR-ish.

And if there's a real-life mr. House, let's not decieve ourselves that it can be anyone but the Donald.
 
I just went out and voted for the agreement. Might not have gone at all if the school just 50 paces outside my house wasn't a polling station.

Anyway, I voted yes. Basically in the end it came down to two shitty options in my opinion. I understand the eurosceptic sentiment, and do believe europe should change. As it is, it's more or less stumbling forward led by western interests and pure old money. But the answer is not right wing populist arguments, which the likes of nigel farage, geert wilders and even putin and his propaganda machine support. My vote was more against them than it was for europe. It seems quite stupid to campaign against this thing which just happens to be going on, for the anti-european cause, without any real relation to the agreement in question, as geenstijl who begun the whole affair admits. I'd rather have a dumb, money-led pro american policy than a dumb anti european rightwing policy. And besides, the Ukrainians themselves are pleading for our support in these troubled times. The arguments for this whole 'no' campaign are so silly. "Oh they made it very obscure what bit to color in on the voting paper!" they say, as the very picture they use to show this has the clearest possible instruction at the bottom, and voting has always been done by coloring in a small circle with a red pencil. It seems for these people it's not about policy but about emotional empowerment. But again, I never feel 100% informed on anything political.

In the end it's a drop in an ocean (of no votes most likely) and I'll keep on being a spectator on the world stage.
 
Akratus said:
I just went out and voted for the agreement. Might not have gone at all if the school just 50 paces outside my house wasn't a polling station.

Anyway, I voted yes. Basically in the end it came down to two shitty options in my opinion. I understand the eurosceptic sentiment, and do believe europe should change. As it is, it's more or less stumbling forward led by western interests and pure old money. But the answer is not right wing populist arguments, which the likes of nigel farage, geert wilders and even putin and his propaganda machine support. My vote was more against them than it was for europe. It seems quite stupid to campaign against this thing which just happens to be going on, for the anti-european cause, without any real relation to the agreement in question, as geenstijl who begun the whole affair admits. I'd rather have a dumb, money-led pro american policy than a dumb anti european rightwing policy. And besides, the Ukrainians themselves are pleading for our support in these troubled times. The arguments for this whole 'no' campaign are so silly. "Oh they made it very obscure what bit to color in on the voting paper!" they say, as the very picture they use to show this has the clearest possible instruction at the bottom, and voting has always been done by coloring in a small circle with a red pencil. It seems for these people it's not about policy but about emotional empowerment. But again, I never feel 100% informed on anything political.

In the end it's a drop in an ocean (of no votes most likely) and I'll keep on being a spectator on the world stage.
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Which of the arguments presented by right-wing populists do you dislike and why?
 
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