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Discussion in 'Fallout 3 Discussion' started by Sn1p3r187, Jan 18, 2016.
If it could be helped, no. Alas, there's nothing to be done about it. That ship has sailed.
The only new/canon thing Fallout 3 did that can be considered good in my eyes was give us ED-E in New Vegas since his backstory would probably be completely different/nonexistent without 3 creating an Enclave base in the East for ED-E to escape from.
They could have said there was an Enclave base further east without the need to make an entire game dedicated in defeating them.
Canon isn't really set in stone at all, it's whatever the current owners say it is. If some other company came along and bought the rights to the series they could theoretically say everything except for the first two Fallout's are non-canon.
As it is now Fallout 3 is canon in Bethesda's eyes and they own the series. Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel was declared non-canon by them as well.
Again, nothing is really set in stone when it comes to these things and someone could always pick up the rights and switch things up, pick and choose what is canon and what is not, hell they could even declare their story is part of a different "timeline" or "had things gone differently"....
Fans have some control over this. By freaking out when they do stupid shit often times they will declare certain things non-canon due to fan outcry. This gets worse when the fanbase is divided as is the case with Fallout or Star Wars. Then you get a base so torn apart that no change they make will matter. Half the fans will be pissed no matter what you do in these cases.
It's officially canon, but Fallout 3 (and 4) doesn't make much sense in the game's setting.
Both contradict themselves and be rest of the series in the multiple ways to the point where making sense of the lore isn't possible without handwaving and theorising.
So we tend to make up our canon cause it makes the series easier to follow.
Bear in mind, I do enjoy Fallout 3 but it kind of pisses me off to see people praise it as some kind of masterwork of a game when it feels like so much could have been improved in terms of writing and mechanics.
I mean, I agree New Vegas is also pretty messy, but that's because the devs cared more about having a good world and setting to play in with interesting characters and clean up the mechanics for Bethesda.
Honestly, I don't think continuity should stand in the way of a good story. I also don't have the same knee-jerk reaction to the BoS and Enclave that some fans do. I played the original games but it was Fallout 3 which really made me LOVE the franchise.
But Fallout 3 isn't even a good story. It's actually the worst part of the game, it's really awful.
Also, if Bethesda didn't care about continuity, then why go and put a load of money on an IP which is very lore heavy with fans who give a shit about the World, and disregard all of it while also not getting what made it unique in the first place?
This is why we can't have nice things.
Then why bother with anything? Might as well have Fallout 5 with today's technology, set in Narnia with unicorns and magic. Hey as long as the story is good why worry about continuity?
Yeah, I'm surprised you said that CT given you're a writer yourself.
One of the most important aspects is continuity.
I'm not just talking about rather simple stuff like eye colour or so, but major shit.
Just as there's countless versions of Batman, so can the story fudge details if it means a better tale is told. For me, Fallout 3 was all about discussing the post-apocalypse and analyzing the pseudo 1950s nostalgia. It was a game about loss, sadness, and the inability to rebuild until a messiah from Vault 101 got the ball rolling. The game was about making me as the player FEEL the sadness and melancholy of the setting, punctuated by odd bits of humor like Moira Brown and the funny bits with ants.
To me, that's more important than whether the BoS and Enclave belong on the East Coast.
Another example is Human Revolution. It's fairly obvious the continuity of the original game with HR doesn't line up in numerous ways but it's something I can overlook because it's such a great game.
Except those different Batman are all been classified as either reboot of the old ones or in different universe.
And both Fallout 3 and 4 are been classified as the continue of this series.
So there is no legal excuse for Fallout 3 and 4 not to respect the old canon.
I often see you assuming the intention behind the writing was something deep, as opposed to just being the developers putting it in there for the sake of it. I call this type of thing "The good writing of the gaps".
You are taking ambigous writing, and adding your own meaning to it.
Is it possible that Fallout 3 was analysing nostalgia?, It's possible, but given that there's not even a slight debate or mention of it in-game, it's just as possible that Bethesda saw the retrofuturistic side of the series, exaggerated it, and called it a day.
As for the inability to rebuild, that's probably Bethesda just going "Post-apoc settings need to be destroyed forever right?" and not realising how complex the setting could be if they did something unique with it.
This has been stated several times and I don't believe it. Mostly because the Washington D.C. setting has a lot of tragic bits of environmental building (the teddy bear flapping in the wind), skeleton placements, stories on the computers, and adventures based around various elements of the Pre-War related to American contradictions. For example, Paradise Falls and the slaving adventures are all about how America the supposed land of the free had slavery as one of its bedrocks for years.
I think a lot of detractors of the game would feel differently about it if they took a bit of time to just soak up the atmosphere.
But again, what is art to some people is trash to another.
The environmental storytelling in Fallout 3 is one of the most overrated aspects of that game because the game world doesn't have any internal logic. The skeletons should be dust, wooden structures shouldn't be standing, BUT OHH EMMM GEEE there are two skeletons on a bed next to each other, that's soooooooooo sad. Not to mention the computers probably shouldn't be working either. It's hard to be engrossed by something when it doesn't make sense on any level. Fallout 3's disrespect for continuity aside, the game biggest sin is it's lack of internal logic within it's own game world.
I can't believe what I am reading actually. Are you real? Environmental world building with teddy bears and skeleton placement and terminal entries? Are you aware of how dense you sound? You literally sound like the typical Bethesda drone (fresh out of middle school) that strolls in here claiming Bethesda are masters at their craft at building believable worlds.
I guess we could sit here deconstructing how fucked up every aspect of the Capitol Wasteland is, but I won't waste my time. Soak up the atmosphere? That is all there is to the fucking series now. ATMOSPHERE! SO IMMERSIVE! You know what immerses me in the atmosphere? Shit that makes sense and lore that isn't fucked up. Canon that is adhered to and not thrown aside with total disregard because of some possible character development or freedom from constraint which is usually freedom from thought.
Only one Highlander movie due to the plot? Fuck that lets make him an alien and he starts off old in a dystopian future and then dudes come down from space and he gets young again. Then we will retcon that retcon so we can be more creative.
Am I insane? Is it too much to ask for writers to read up on the lore of the series they are writing about? Get the damn dates right at least. Detractors need to just soak it up? I soaked up that shit until every last bit of content was slurped out and it tasted like shit.
Defending Fallout 3 at this point is fucking hysterical. Wow they are slavers guys and the USA did slavery so it is really deep. I would say more, but this leash is digging into my neck, but rest assured that you are wrong sir. When your next sequel comes out I expect a total retcon of previous events due to it all being a dream.
Sorry. I think Fallout 3 is easily the best and most atmospheric of the Fallouts and the other games don't even come close. Fallout: New Vegas was awesome but it didn't feel like it had any sense of tragedy from the Great War which coated everything in Fallout 3.
Disagree but I cared more about rescuing the Constitution and destroying Paradise Falls than I ever did about the Water Chip or GECK.
Fallout 1, 2 and New Vegas didn't have teddy bears and manequins, NOT ATMOASSSPHURIC!
I disagree Toront, Fallout isn't all about atmosphere nowadays, no it's about teddy bears in stupid set ups and lots of repetitive looting while Bethesda appeals to the easily manipulated with the very stuff Fallout used to mock, overt patriotism, worship of national icons and generic plots about finding your family and pointless sacrifices.
I think the only place which really invoked the feels in New Vegas the way Fallout 3 did was Dead Money and I hated the gameplay there.
Realism doesn't matter to me as long as the story is good. I don't mind stuff unchanged from the Pre-War era in Fallout 3 because it's such a desolate and dangerous place--albeit I think Fallout 4 overdid it since it's supposed to be a reasonably settled area.