Should Fallout 3 be considered canon?

Walpknut said:
Fallout went from "The New California Republic meddles into the affairs of close communities to try and coax them into joining by means of paid raider parties, funding of crime bosses and facilitating the distribution of drugs in certain communities to ensure cheap mining operations" to "Guhhhh recover the declaration of independence so you can beat the slavuhrsh who have taken over the Lincoln Memorial!!!!"
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I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the giant psychic rat and Super Mutant Stage Magician with summoning powers.

What was that?

Fallout 3 was silly? The Frank Horrigan you say?
 
CT Phipps said:
I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the giant psychic rat and Super Mutant Stage Magician with summoning powers.

What was that?

Fallout 3 was silly? The Frank Horrigan you say?
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But everyone has already said they don't like the silly points of F2.
But at least most of the game was meant to be taken seriously and those parts give us a real World.
Fallout 3 is just a cartoon, that's it.

Also, Frank Horrigan was a pretty good way to end a game. I didn't think it was silly at all.
 
I don't mind silly at all. I think humor can go well with serious storytelling.

:)

Which is why Liberty Prime will oppress us to give us freedom!
 
Little Lamplight being direct neighbors with the super mutants who go out and kidnap people would have never have even existed for long even taking into consideration a possibility of a town exclusively of children thrown together for some reason.
 
Furthermore, the Quest with the slavers I mentioned IS supposed to be one of the serious ones. Phipps even tried to use it earlier to show how deep Fo3 was, you can't have it both ways.
 
I quite like the silly humor from fo2 and fo3, FNV. However don't like it in fo4 and even fo3 in certain intense. But i dunno its okay to be honest and I enjoy however I think it could be treated seperatly from the main story etc. New Vegas handeled it well by having the perk you unlock that allows the wacky wasteland experiences
 
Walpknut said:
Furthermore, the Quest with the slavers I mentioned IS supposed to be one of the serious ones. Phipps even tried to use it earlier to show how deep Fo3 was, you can't have it both ways.
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No, the serious quests are different from the silly quests and both work well in the game. Sierra Petrovita isn't a serious quest, nor is the Ant-Agonizer, or the Republic of Dave.

However, the slavers quests are as well as Tranquility Lane and the return to Vault 101.
 
Speaking of which, how does Tranquillity Lane work, wouldn't the people inhabiting the pods die of starvation or dehydration, what exactly is keeping them alive? HOW HAVE THEY BEEN IN THE PODS FOR MORE THAN 200 YEARS WITHOUT EATING OR DRINKING?
 
CT Phipps said:
3. Well The Pitt explained the Raiders were working for Ashur's insane scheme so at least that was explained.
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We already had this discussion, the Capital Wasteland Raiders have nothing to do with Ashur's Raiders (most of Ashur's Raiders are ex slaves who raised up from the arena fights). Ashur only deals with the slavers from the capital wasteland.
Also even if they raid caravans, they are so far away from the Capital Wasteland that I don't see how they would be raiding caravans in the Capital Wasteland.
Also raiding doesn't make much sense because Ashur is the only one making new ammo in the region and he uses that ammo to buy whatever he needs (specially slaves). Ashur is basically a multimillionaire sitting on a gold mine, and that is why he stays in the Pitt even though it is really radioactive and people don't last long, because he wants to find a cure so he can make the Pitt into a industrial settlement where every one will be free and work on their own free will and share in the richness of their ammo press.
 
JO'Geran said:
Plus, lets not forget that the psychic rat was essentially just a Pinky and the Brain reference.

Little Lamplight wasn't a reference to anything, and had one of the major game choices associated with it.
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so did the brain though he can tie heavily into what becomes of the vault city/gecko problem iirc. he's the reason that that one ghoul knew that vault city didn't have enough power to expand. the brain isn't as bad as little lamplight as it doesn't break basic logic its just so silly that it doesn't quite fit.
 
Risewild said:
We already had this discussion, the Capital Wasteland Raiders have nothing to do with Ashur's Raiders (most of Ashur's Raiders are ex slaves who raised up from the arena fights). Ashur only deals with the slavers from the capital wasteland.
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Okay, YOU were raised from arena slaves. Not everyone is recruited from the arena.

Also even if they raid caravans, they are so far away from the Capital Wasteland that I don't see how they would be raiding caravans in the Capital Wasteland.
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Not necessarily. There's a direct train tunnel right to the region and the Capital Wasteland could be the closest settlement worth raiding.

Also raiding doesn't make much sense because Ashur is the only one making new ammo in the region and he uses that ammo to buy whatever he needs (specially slaves).
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Why doesn't it make sense? Ashur needs materials and slaves to build up his empire. Why pay for it with arming people when you can use it to make your empire work for free.

Ashur is basically a multimillionaire sitting on a gold mine, and that is why he stays in the Pitt even though it is really radioactive and people don't last long, because he wants to find a cure so he can make the Pitt into a industrial settlement where every one will be free and work on their own free will and share in the richness of their ammo press.
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Yes, which is why anything he does like slavery and raiding and feeding people the mutant remains of their dead coworkers is justified.

He's insane.
 
CT Phipps said:
No, the serious quests are different from the silly quests and both work well in the game. Sierra Petrovita isn't a serious quest, nor is the Ant-Agonizer, or the Republic of Dave.

However, the slavers quests are as well as Tranquility Lane and the return to Vault 101.
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Hahaha sure, of course, Vampire Quest, Slavers quest? Oh you mean the one where enslaving people is done through a WACKY HYPNO GUN!!!!!? Or you mean the one where you have to pick up Lincoln memorabilia so you get rid of the Slavers on the Lincoln memorial? Tranquility Lane? The one that you end up acting like you are on a friday the 13th movie and you take orders from a little girl with an old man's voice while you do "mean acts" for him? The return to 101 isn't silly, altho it isn't well written anyway, they force the reference to Fallout 1 but forget to make it make sense, the main quest is already pretty stupid from the get go, you even get the retarded forced sacrifice at the end that they charge you 10 dollars to midly alter later and the already mentioned "forced iconography" by making the Water purifier out of the Jefferson memorial cuz 'murika.
Mos of them don't work well either, mostly from the bad writting but also because they are all linear.
 
CT Phipps said:
Okay, YOU were raised from arena slaves. Not everyone is recruited from the arena.
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At least four Ashur soldiers are known to be ex-slaves who fought through The Hole and gained freedom: Gruber, Hammer, Reddup and Squill.
The game doesn't tell us the background of a few of them (so they might or not be ex-slaves) and only one (Bingo) is said to be there from before Ashur's appeared. The game even tells us that Ashur does not have raiders, he has soldiers. Ashur tells us that some of his men were raiders before but they stop being raiders when they join:
I know some of my soldiers are harsher than they need to be. Usually, it's the ones who were raiders before they signed up here.
I can't stop all of the abuse, but when someone goes too far, I make sure they're strung up around town as an example.
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Doesn't sound like someone who would order raids, he even punishes his men that are too violent, aggressive, etc with a death sentence.
CT Phipps said:
Not necessarily. There's a direct train tunnel right to the region and the Capital Wasteland could be the closest settlement worth raiding.
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Today with modern trains and impeccable tracks it takes at least six and a half hours (6:30 is the shortest and 10:10 the longest of all the train rides I could find) to go by train from Pittsburgh to Washington DC, it takes four hours by car and it would take approximately 76 to 80 hours by foot. The Pitt doesn't have any working train either (we only see train wagons and they are blocking the tracks so no imaginary train can pass by them), the only way to move is using the handcar we take to travel to the Pitt. Now lets say 8 people fit in the car at once (if they snuggle together), where will the loot from the raiding fit?
Also what is there to raid in the Capital Wasteland? There are only four caravans in there, each of them only carry really low value things that are mostly in bad condition (that is why the player has to invest caps in their caravans twice before they have any decent stock) and none of them mention getting raided at all, and since they only have one guard for protection I assume they never got raided much at all. Do they take days to reach the Capital Wasteland to raid a couple pre-war clothes falling apart, a leather armor with less than 50% condition, some chinese pistol almost reaching the jam point, a baseball bat, one stimpack and one mentats, a nuka cola and a iguana bits?
Settlements in the Capital Wasteland also do not get raided except Big Town, and only Super Mutants do that. Do Ashur's soldiers raid raiders?
The Capital Wasteland is so devoid of anything of value that is not inside a well protected settlement that I think keeping the soldiers fed just during the time it takes to come from and back to the Pitt is probably more expensive than any loot they might raid.
It's logistics. Ashur always need workforce because slaves die fast and the radiation in the Pitt is much worst than other places, so he makes that long trip to the Capital Wasteland to get more slaves because there is a large slaver organization there.
I reach this conclusion by seeing what the game tells and shows up, I don't create my own lore.
CT Phipps said:
Why doesn't it make sense? Ashur needs materials and slaves to build up his empire. Why pay for it with arming people when you can use it to make your empire work for free.
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Ashur does not need materials, he only needs the manpower. He has all the materials already, once he manages the cure for the radiation disease he will not need slaves anymore either and people will be able to start producing children. He chose the Pitt because he has everything he needs there except people (because they die very fast without a cure for the radiation disease). The only thing he doesn't have there is food. He doesn't have anyone producing food so he needs to get some food. Now if you think trading ammo for food is worst than using that ammo to kill people and take their food I don't see you getting a medal for your tactics in the future. (Here I am not using stuff the game tells or shows, nowhere is mentioned that Ashur kills or trades for food for example so I can't just say I am right or something like that. Although Ashur does mention the strength of their traders, so we know he trades with the outside).
CT Phipps said:
Yes, which is why anything he does like slavery and raiding and feeding people the mutant remains of their dead coworkers is justified.

He's insane.
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I don't think he is insane, he has a long term plan and if successful he will be making a powerful new settlement/faction where the people he enslaved will be free and get all the benefits of this settlement richness. He also knows quite well what he is doing and why, so again I don't think he is insane. He is building something out of ruins, he is acting like a human would act, rebuild civilization.
He even treats the slaves with respect calling them "workers" and letting them fight in the arena to stop being a slave and give hope to other slaves that they can get out of that situation (he has a thing for people to reach greatness by their own strength). He also says he has soldiers and not raiders, and he is educated enough to know the difference between those two words. He is not rubbing his hands and cackling evilly when he thinks of his slaves working, he even shows that he doesn't like using slaves but it is the only way to build his dream.
First of all, they aren't "slaves." They're "workers." They can earn their freedom, like you did.
I know it's not a big difference, but it's important. And it's a lot better than they'll get from the slavers we get them from.
I wish it wasn't necessary, but we need the labor to keep the city functioning. We don't have the leisure of laziness
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The workers need to be pushed, but I don't tolerate cruelty for cruelty's sake. The soldiers who used to be workers know where to draw the line.
I can't stop all of the abuse, but when someone goes too far, I make sure they're strung up around town as an example.
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Without it killing our kids, we can grow like a real city. No more bringing in slaves. No more forced labor. Things can get better.
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"Where others merely survive, we thrive! Our industry is the envy of the Commonwealth! Our safety is the envy of the Capital Wastes! Our might is the envy of Ronto! And while I have led your efforts, it has been by your own strength that you have earned all of the envy of the world. They envy the steel shaped by the workers in our mills, and they envy the strength of our traders and raiders who wield that steel for The Pitt. And most of all, they envy our victories in the struggle for freedom. Because, yes, freedom is what we all work towards. "
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"Ever since the city was scourged, we've done what everyone does: whatever's necessary to survive. I know my city seems barbaric to you, but it's the only way we can carve out a home in this hellhole, and it's kept these people alive. But that's enough stalling for time. So, do you know Wernher?"
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"Right now, nothing. Until we can reproduce a treatment from Marie, they'll have to keep working. Otherwise, this city falls apart. But once we do have a cure, things will be different. We won't need to kidnap people for our city. We'll be able to grow naturally. Until then, this is the way it has to be. It's just what has to be done."
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And he even says the thing that any classic Fallout fan knows about Fallout, it is all about rebuilding and not looting new stuff:
Not in the slightest. During the Scourge, we looted The Pitt and left the rest of it to rot. I was just a dumb convert who got stuck here afterwards.
See, beneath it all, the Brotherhood's just lazy. It's easier to loot a dying city than work to bring it back to life, so that's what they did.
They're so obsessed with the technology of the past, they don't care what needs to be done for today and tomorrow
It takes real work to rebuild and run a city. But there isn't a machine to do it for them, so the Brotherhood ain't interested. Good riddance.
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Definitely, Ashur is actually a good person, that employs bad means to achieve his goal because there is not other way to achieve that goal, he knows that once he achieved it then he can just drop all the bad things and let things grow naturally without slavery and oppression. This is all told and shown to us by the game. I would like to see the game telling us or showing us that Ashur is insane and an evil person.
 
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Risewild said:
And he even says the thing that any classic Fallout fan knows about Fallout, it is all about rebuilding and not looting new stuff:

Definitely, Ashur is actually a good person, that employs bad means to achieve his goal because there is not other way to achieve that goal, he knows that once he achieved it then he can just drop all the bad things and let things grow naturally without slavery and oppression. This is all told and shown to us by the game. I would like to see the game telling us or showing us that Ashur is insane and an evil person.
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Calling Ashur a good person forgets the fact that calling a person a worker doesn't mean they're not here at gun point doing forced labor after being kidnapped from their homes at gunpoint by Paradise Falls. Ashur may not be insane, at least in the classical ense, but he is obsessed with his vision of creating a new society in Pittsburgh's ruins even though it's arguably the only place other than the Glow, the Glowing Sea, and the Capital Wasteland which is WORSE to to inhabit.

He, however, is obsessed with the fact it has a working steel mill and its possibilities.

He's very much a more sympathetic take on Caesar in the context of absolute devotion to a goal with no thought to the morality behind it.
 
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