So...drugs

[Per]

I've started 3 answers on this bullshit. Long and detailed ones. All of them lead to the fact, that you seem to be either uneducated (what can be fixed), or a stupid christian retard (what can be fixed since you live in the USA and you get guns everywhere).

So please. Stop writing such crap if you're not on the level to discuss certain stuff. For you own, and for humanity's sake.

Guess what? You're no longer on probation. Bye!

 

[Paladin Solo]

What kind of Brisbane bullshit is this ??

The kind that walks on two legs and thinks intelligence derives from the ability to speak one's mind, however flawed it may be. I miss Darwin and Spencer.

 

[SuAside]

Ahh, but there is. There is an unseen cost to drug use that most people tend to forget; who is getting the money for your buying "a little coke, speed or extacy now and then".

Trafficking in illicit drugs tends to be associated with the commission of violent crimes for the competition of drug markets and disputes among individuals involved in the illegal drug market. In order to re-establish the rule of law and fight down the anarchy there is a need for more police, jails, and courts. The money used to fund these legal systems comes from taxes of the citizens.

except most of the MJ i used came from friends who grew their own, so no violence nor funding of gangs involved. but of course, the other things i experimented (only once or twice) with probably went to criminals, i'll admit that.

however, where are your high morals when it comes to socially accepted drugs Corith?
- smoking (and second hand smoking) causes cancer and various other diseases. these take a huge toll on social security and cost society buckets of money each year.
- alcohol causes accidents related to DUI's, causes liverdiseases, and much more. once again, a huge toll on society.
- "legal" addiction meds to stuff like Valium and such runs rampant in your backyard, Corith, how about that?

i'm quite sure you drink a good glass of wine or have a pint of beer every now and then. there is extremely little difference between that and the occasional joint. except joints mellow out & calms down, where alcohol removes certain norms and moral. a few illustrations: drivers high from only a joint drive slower, drunk drivers drive equally fast or faster than usual, but have less capacity to react. high people are mellow, drunk people are often aggressive.

you tell me which is more dangerous to society...

Lets look at another way. Long term use of illegal drugs can lead to major health problems, and since long term drug users are unlikely to have the jobs that pay for health care, they burden the medical system for those that can, increasing the costs for everybody.

so do users of 'legal' drugs... except those are accepted.

The effects of all drugs, including marijuana is impairing thinking, reading comprehension, and verbal and mathematical skills, even after the high as abated. Can these people hold highly complex jobs of engineers, doctors, programmers, architects. What do they contribute to society? Would Edison the pot smoker have created some 1093 inventions? Can you see a coke snorting Yoshiro Nakamatsu create some 3,000 inventions. Could Carl Koller even create cocaine if he had been high on extacy or marijuana?

ah, yes, of course...

since "druggies" haven't produced 3000 inventions, they're not useful to civilisation.

well Corith, correct me if i'm wrong, but i doubt you're created 3000 useful inventions yourself, so maybe you should re-evaluate your usefulness to society
(don't get me wrong, mr christian hatemonger, i still like you)

on a sidenote, might i point out how many artists were drug users? pretty much all of them. (now you can argue the use of art to civilisation of course). as for your inventors, it is rumoured that DaVinci was an avid marihuana user (but that's not very easy to check, although traces of cannabis were found in one of his favorite pipes).

Drugs are for those who lack the strength or character to face reality.

hmz, how about all those RPG's we play? isn't that -partly- an escape from reality? do things we cant in real life. transpose ourselves to another plane?

You know what I agree with Corith, all of what he says is basically near truth. Just because you don't see the effect of drugs now, does not mean that they are not having any effects at all. Long term usage of these drugs really do fuck you well and truly over. I have said before, there was a good friend of mine who smoked the drug Marijuana constantly, and he ended up "offing" himself because the drug fucked him up. He was completely normal before, growing up in a similar family and relationships to I. He never spoke to me about ever feeling like a lunatic before he started smoking, but after, it was impossible to hold a decent conversation with him, let alone find him...

abuse of anything in life is detrimental to your health.

as for your friend, the question is if he commited suicide due to the drugs, or due to a weak and/or vulnerable personality...

But whatever. If you people think it is OK to use these drugs, go for it. Smoke, inject snort all the shit that will kill you, so the world may become a better place without you acting like cocks and doing incredibly stupid things whilst high.

Fuck it. These kind of topics always get me angry and I told myself to not even look at the topic when I saw it, but alas, I could not.

drugs do not lead to death duckman... inappropriate use of drugs does.

don't be such a drama whore. i think you'd be surprised how many people have tried drugs or are still using drugs (legal or illegal ones)

Time to get out of here before I say anything else to people who fund illegal drug rings etc.

do you drink? perhaps smoke?

welcome to the drugsrings, my friend.

So, you mean to say that people who may or may not be "educated" should stay out of the argument about drugs if they don't agree in there usage (illegal drugs of course)?? What kind of Brisbane bullshit is this ??

he's saying to stay the fuck out if you're naive and oblivious to the world you live in

 

[TheWesDude]

my older brother is 30 yrs old. he used drugs a lot and still uses weed. that i know of. he had a great career in computers and was making about 25k a year in that job. then he got fired from missing too much work. then he got a job at a printing shop where he had a great job making about 23k a year with good promotional prospects. after 4 years of that he was fired when the company was bought out by another because of a failed drug test. then he went to a AM PM gas/quicki mart type deal making about $7 an hour. he got fired from that job from missing too much work. he has never had a long term relationship, and he frequently forgets things like what time it is, what day it is, and sometimes where he works. yet he still does drugs.

i have an uncle in california who owns a construction company. he like coke a lot. his company makes about 100-150 mil a year and he takes home about 5 mil a year yet him and his wife and his 3 children live off 50k a year. the rest of the money goes to drugs.


i have more stories about long term drug use if you want to, but if you want to know how they turn out, just look at the above 2 and thats pretty much the format.

 

[SuAside]

that aint stories of drug use, TheWesDude. those are stories of drug abuse...

 

[Corith]

since "druggies" haven't produced 3000 inventions, they're not useful to civilisation.

It is always the subtle points that get missed, isn't it.

My point here is what could those druggies have contributed to humanity had they not been druggies. What has been lost? Who or what might have they become?

My overall point, which seems to have been missed, is there is more than nothing to using Marijuana, Cocaine, speed, and xtasy. Something that reaches beyond sitting in the privacy of your own home imbibing what ever mind altering substance you want. It was a counter point to the "There's nothing wrong with doing a little coke, speed or extacy now and then". What is more important than what people are doing with drugs, is where is the money going? For the most part, the money goes into the pockets of people who loath and despise the governments and way of life of the country in which the buyer resides.

Personally, I'd rather see them legalize Marijuana, and tax the blazes out of like they do tobacco and alcohol. Did you know that prior to the American Civil War, all official documents had to printed on hemp paper?

And, for the record, I am not a bible thumping Christian. I proclaim no association to any religion.

 

[SuAside]

It is always the subtle points that get missed, isn't it.

My point here is what could those druggies have contributed to humanity had they not been druggies. What has been lost? Who or what might have they become?

that's a total non-issue.

what art wouldve been lost if there had been no drugs. what damage couldve been prevented if Hitler had been tookin' instead of hatemongering.

My overall point, which seems to have been missed, is there is more than nothing to using Marijuana, Cocaine, speed, and xtasy. Something that reaches beyond sitting in the privacy of your own home imbibing what ever mind altering substance you want. It was a counter point to the "There's nothing wrong with doing a little coke, speed or extacy now and then". What is more important than what people are doing with drugs, is where is the money going? For the most part, the money goes into the pockets of people who loath and despise the governments and way of life of the country in which the buyer resides.

euhm, most maffia and gangs tend to appreciate the government and way of life of the country in which they operate since the government is unable to put a stop to their racket.

and if you mean the 'taliban', 'farc', etc opium producers and such: there is little money in the raw materials. the real money is in the import and mass distribution to the dealers.

 

[Corith]

It is always the subtle points that get missed, isn't it.

My point here is what could those druggies have contributed to humanity had they not been druggies. What has been lost? Who or what might have they become?

that's a total non-issue.

what art wouldve been lost if there had been no drugs. what damage couldve been prevented if Hitler had been tookin' instead of hatemongering.

My overall point, which seems to have been missed, is there is more than nothing to using Marijuana, Cocaine, speed, and xtasy. Something that reaches beyond sitting in the privacy of your own home imbibing what ever mind altering substance you want. It was a counter point to the "There's nothing wrong with doing a little coke, speed or extacy now and then". What is more important than what people are doing with drugs, is where is the money going? For the most part, the money goes into the pockets of people who loath and despise the governments and way of life of the country in which the buyer resides.

euhm, most maffia and gangs tend to appreciate the government and way of life of the country in which they operate since the government is unable to put a stop to their racket.

and if you mean the 'taliban', 'farc', etc opium producers and such: there is little money in the raw materials. the real money is in the import and mass distribution to the dealers.

Granted my perspective is overshadowed by living in California, but I do see the gangs that sell the drugs really do hate America. Here in the sunshine state, they openly (well, as openly as gangs can) proclaim how much they hate America and everything it stands for. I've heard it with my own ears. And, Afghanistan's number one crop is opium. More of its arable land is devoted to growing it than food.

And, yes, that potential contributions is my issue, or rather one of them when I made my claim - What things could they have contributed to the world? It is not a non-issue. I brought it up as a possible negative effect to using drugs.

There is always cause and effect, of some type for everything we do including, but not limited to illegal drugs. Mani was incorrect in saying the usage of Cocaine, Speed, and xtasy have no negative effects. I merely pointed out one, in this case, money.

Are you taking the stance that the occasional usage has no ill-effects? Or, that the continued use of mind altering and illegal drugs are a good thing? Perhaps, you feel my thoughts on the money trail are incorrect.

Granted I could be wrong and drug use, illegal drug use, is really good and I am just unable to see those good parts. All I can see are the bad. Can you point some out for me and dispel my negative delusions?

 

[Sander]

Wait, wasn't Florida the Sunshine State?

Using drugs always has negative effects, there's no going around it. Yes, that includes marijuana.

That said, the government needs to evaluate whether the risk to the general health is great enough to warrant outright banning. I'd say that with a lot of drugs, this is not the case. If you're talking about crack cocaine, heroin or other insanely addictive materials, then yes, they could warrant a banning. But essentially non-addictive materials such as marijuana, cocaine or xtc? Nah.

 

[[PCE]el_Prez]

Anybody watch HBO show 'The Wire'? It's easily my favorite TV show (even though i have to rent the DVD's cause i don't have HBO) but it's all about drugs and drug dealers and the cops pursuing them. I only bring it up because they talk about this shit a lot.

 

[Corith]

Unless I'm mistaken, recent studies have shown both marijuana, cocaine to be addictive. Granted, so is tobacco and alcohol.

However, as I stated previously, I would love to see marijuana legalized. Until 1883, from 75-90% of all paper in the world was made with cannabis hemp fiber. It can be made into rope, cloth, paper, and food. It can produce as much as 4 times the amount of paper per acre than 20-year-old trees can with the ability to grow in various climatic zones. The paper can be recycled 7 times versus 3 times for current paper types and can be bleached with hydrogen peroxide instead of chlorine bleach. MJ plants can be converted into methane, methanol, or gasoline which burns much cleaner, contributing less to global warming than fossil fuels. MJ seeds can be pressed into nutritious oil and the byproduct of pressing the oil is a high quality protein seed cake. An acre of MJ can produce as much usable fiber as two acres of cotton and the clothing made from its fibers are softer, warmer, and more water absorbent than cotton. Particleboard made from MJ are twice as strong as wood particleboard and holds nails better. Almost anything that can be made from wood, cotton, or most petroleum products (including plastics) can be made from this marvelous plant.

 

[Sander]

Unless I'm mistaken, recent studies have shown both marijuana, cocaine to be addictive. Granted, so is tobacco and alcohol.

I've seen one such study, yet there have been many more (and, more importantly, more recent) studies that showed the exact opposite, at least for marijuana.

Of course, any substance can still be mentally addictive, but marijuana (in any of its forms) and cocaine are not physically addictive for as far as I'm aware.

 

[SuAside]

remember there is a difference between psychological and physical addiction.

 

[Sander]

remember there is a difference between psychological and physical addiction.

Ehm, yeah, which is, you know, exactly what I noted in my post.

 

[Per]

Stop it with the drugs, SuAside.

 

[SuAside]

remember there is a difference between psychological and physical addiction.

Ehm, yeah, which is, you know, exactly what I noted in my post.

grmbl grmbl grmbl

i was trying to back you & add some crap, but it appears a clumsy cut/paste ate 99% of the post...

Stop it with the drugs, SuAside.

lies! i've been off everything except alcohol for over 5 years now!

 

[armagetiton]

cocaine is highly physically addictive, and you go through a withdraw after using the first time... as for pot, there is also a physical addiction, but only after long time use. You only get withdraw from pot if you are addicted, and withdraw might take a few days to kick in. There is no physical addiction to extascy, and no withdraw, however the day after use of ex gives extreme hangover-like symtoms.. most notably sluggishness and loss of cognative ability.

 

[Sander]

cocaine is highly physically addictive,

No, it isn't. It really isn't.

and you go through a withdraw after using the first time...

Eh, no you don't. You could have varying physical reactions to cocaine, but they are not withdrawal effects. In fact, there is probably not a single drug in existance that causes physical addiction (and hence withdrawal) after just one use.

as for pot, there is also a physical addiction, but only after long time use. You only get withdraw from pot if you are addicted, and withdraw might take a few days to kick in.

Again, no, it isn't. A *mental* addiction can occur and this can lead to mild withdrawal symptoms, but this is *not* a physical addiction.

 

[Corith]

The euphoria from cocaine disappears rather quickly and thus leaves the user with a craving for the same feeling. The user usually increases the dose and the frequency to satisfy this craving.
When cocaine use is stopped or when a binge ends, depression follows along with a strong desire to reproduce the feelings, fatigue, pleasurelessness, anxiety, irritability, sleepiness, and sometimes agitation or paranoia. Doesn't this count as addiction?

Several medical centers, including Spencer Recovery Center and National Institute on Drug Abuse, lists cocaine as highly addictive.
And, if cocaine is not addictive, then why is there a help group for its addiction - Cocaine Anonymous?

 

[Sander]

The euphoria from cocaine disappears rather quickly and thus leaves the user with a craving for the same feeling. The user usually increases the dose and the frequency to satisfy this craving.
When cocaine use is stopped or when a binge ends, depression follows along with a strong desire to reproduce the feelings, fatigue, pleasurelessness, anxiety, irritability, sleepiness, and sometimes agitation or paranoia. Doesn't this count as addiction?

Yes, mental addiction, not physical addiction.

Several medical centers, including Spencer Recovery Center and National Institute on Drug Abuse, lists cocaine as highly addictive.
And, if cocaine is not addictive, then why is there a help group for its addiction - Cocaine Anonymous?

Again, the difference is between physical and mental addiction. Cocaine is certainly mentally addictive, as are all stimuli. However, it is not physically addictive as opposed to, say, crack or heroin.

The most important difference being, of course, that the body will not ask for more cocaine.