So...drugs

An acquaintance of mine was addicted to coke. From what he described, he did say he had a heavy physical addiction to it, underwent niacin treatment and generally, spent around six months in rehab sweating the stuff away and putting together bits of his mind.
 
Corith said:
Granted my perspective is overshadowed by living in California, but I do see the gangs that sell the drugs really do hate America. Here in the sunshine state, they openly (well, as openly as gangs can) proclaim how much they hate America and everything it stands for. I've heard it with my own ears. And, Afghanistan's number one crop is opium. More of its arable land is devoted to growing it than food.

And, yes, that potential contributions is my issue, or rather one of them when I made my claim - What things could they have contributed to the world? It is not a non-issue. I brought it up as a possible negative effect to using drugs.

There is always cause and effect, of some type for everything we do including, but not limited to illegal drugs. Mani was incorrect in saying the usage of Cocaine, Speed, and xtasy have no negative effects. I merely pointed out one, in this case, money.

Are you taking the stance that the occasional usage has no ill-effects? Or, that the continued use of mind altering and illegal drugs are a good thing? Perhaps, you feel my thoughts on the money trail are incorrect.

Granted I could be wrong and drug use, illegal drug use, is really good and I am just unable to see those good parts. All I can see are the bad. Can you point some out for me and dispel my negative delusions?
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woo there partner, I was talking about negative effects on the user, not the effects on society caused by the distributors. If the governments of western nations took their heads out of their asses for about 5 minutes they'd realize they could make money out of drugs by taxing them and prevent deaths by regulating them to ensure they were pure.

Then there'd be no need for a war on drugs, then America hating California gangs wouldn't be able to make money with drugs, then Afghanistani farmers wouldn't grow papaver plants.

Of course western democracies are turning into nanny states, banning shit because it might be bad for you so fast it makes Mao's cap spin, fueled by misplaced christian righteousness.

There's nothing wrong with using drugs, it's abusing them where things go wrong, why should responsible users be punished for the exploits of some abusers? Are people who drink a beer now and then compared drunks? Of course not, so stop demonizing casual drug users.

P.S. I's pretty sure Florida is the Sunshine State, although I prefer to call it America's wang.
 
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I'll throw in my two cents. All drugs are not created equal. Some are incredibly dangerous while others are practically harmless. Saying all "drugs" are bad/dangerous is untrue. Some are safer than substances prescribed as medicine. LSD for instance has no long term effects on the body. It's not physically addictive. Tolerance is built up so quickly that daily use is fairly unreasonable. It can have a profound effect on one's psyche, but negative effects can be virtually eliminated with a little bit of planning and caution. Other drugs can be moderately safe as well as long as one is responsible about it. But really that's the problem. People don't seem to realize (or care) that uncontrolled use of a substance (any substance, not just illegal drugs) leads to problems. The problem in most cases is not drugs, it's the people who use them. They're safe to a point. But like many other things, when one gets too involved it becomes dangerous. Even repeated use of keyboards are harmful to health.
 
Like all kids I experimented with mj once or twice out of curiosity, but I never got into the scene, as I've never understood what is so fascinating about blowing your mind on a regular basis. I do have a few stories you might be interested in though.

The friend who intorduced me to the mj, became a heavy user and changed from a nice guy to a paranoid nasty type and we gradually grew apart. I haven't a clue what happened to him. He could be dead, in jail or living a normal life.

A cousin of mine was a real brain at school. He was interested in wildlife and was accepted into Vet School (which is damned hard to get into). While he was at university he started doing mj. Now its 15 years later, he is stoned whenever he is awake, has not had a job for most of that 15 years, lives with his Mum, has no girl friend and has zero chance of getting one.

The other cousin (his brother) is a druggie, should have been a talented artist, but now is just a con artist. Sure he is out in the world on his own, but there's always someone who is after him for money or for things he's stolen from them. It wouldn't surprise me if he was found dead in a gutter some day.

The other cousin (oldest brother) was a hardcore mj user with a violent streak. He found God when he met his GF and never took drugs again. 15 yrs later they are still married, have 3 kids and both have stable jobs (I'm not a Christain or promoting religion, I'm just stating the facts as I know them).

Then there are the long standing friends of my parents. They grew up in the 50's and can't imagine socialising without alcohol. Now most of the men are alcoholics, have depression issues or both.

As you can imagine knowing what I know, I'm not interested in drinking or drugs.

I was wondering, does anyone have any positive stories about recreational drugs and regular long term use?
 
Davaris said:
I was wondering, does anyone have any positive stories about recreational drugs and regular long term use?
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Yes. One old housemate of mine did (and probably still does) quite a bit of pot. Hell, when he got his first regular job (a good job, too), he actually smoked on a daily basis because that, unlike alcohol, didn't affect him in the morning. He quit that job because it got too boring, though.

He now has a well-paying job, his own apartment (he owns it, doesn't rent), a lease-car from his job and still smokes regularly. He also regularly joins us at concerts and such. Cool dude.
 
Davaris said:
I was wondering, does anyone have any positive stories about recreational drugs and regular long term use?
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pick any random artist in history and you've got about a 66% chance you've got yourself a "positive story about recreational drugs and regular long term use".

i also still have a bunch of friends who smoke joints on a daily basis and pretty much all of them have regular jobs with decent pays (with the exception of one who's unemployed due to a caraccident which was unrelated to drugs btw).
 
SuAside said:
pick any random artist in history and you've got about a 66% chance you've got yourself a "positive story about recreational drugs and regular long term use".
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I think you are dead wrong. Artists aren't great because they do drugs. They could be great and doing drugs for related reasons, but they'd simply be greater if they didn't also do drugs.
 
Per said:
SuAside said:
pick any random artist in history and you've got about a 66% chance you've got yourself a "positive story about recreational drugs and regular long term use".
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I think you are dead wrong. Artists aren't great because they do drugs. They could be great and doing drugs for related reasons, but they'd simply be greater if they didn't also do drugs.
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I dont mean to promote drug use, but I think abstract art proves you wrong.

:wink: ,
The Vault Dweller
 
Per said:
I think you are dead wrong. Artists aren't great because they do drugs.
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while in this particular case i didn't say they were great due to drugs (i did before though), this was merely an illustration of positive use.
Per said:
They could be great and doing drugs for related reasons, but they'd simply be greater if they didn't also do drugs.
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and why do you say that? how many countless stories, poems, paintings and whatnot were inspired by drugs? quite a few, i can tell you that.
if there were no drugs, those pieces of art would never have existed.

but tell me, how can you presume to know that they'd have made "better" art if there hadn't been any drugs?

want an example? Stanley Kubrick. pretty much all of his movies have drug references. he admits to having used LSD and whatnot. i'm guessing SO: 2001 should've been a dead giveaway. how exactly do you believe his work couldve been better if he hadnt used drugs?
 
SuAside said:
and why do you say that? how many countless stories, poems, paintings and whatnot were inspired by drugs? quite a few, i can tell you that.
if there were no drugs, those pieces of art would never have existed.
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Appeal to consequence fallacy.

SuAside said:
but tell me, how can you presume to know that they'd have made "better" art if there hadn't been any drugs?
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Because drugs erode the brain and brains make for good art-making. As for the rest, the burden of proof is on you. Until you produce something more concrete than "druggies have made some fine shit", you are guilty of fallacies of biased sample, hasty generalization, correlation implies causation, appeal to tradition, and ham sandwich.

SuAside said:
want an example? Stanley Kubrick. pretty much all of his movies have drug references. he admits to having used LSD and whatnot. i'm guessing SO: 2001 should've been a dead giveaway. how exactly do you believe his work couldve been better if he hadnt used drugs?
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Paths of Glory has drug references? Noooo.
 
Per said:
SuAside said:
and why do you say that? how many countless stories, poems, paintings and whatnot were inspired by drugs? quite a few, i can tell you that.
if there were no drugs, those pieces of art would never have existed.
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Appeal to consequence fallacy.
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*sigh* at least you have to admit that if there were no drugs, there'd be no art with drugs as it's subject... that is no argumentum ad consequentiam, Per.

Per said:
SuAside said:
but tell me, how can you presume to know that they'd have made "better" art if there hadn't been any drugs?
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Because drugs erode the brain and brains make for good art-making.
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i'd call that a red herring, but you didn't even give any arguments for it... so it's not even that.

please, god sir, do prove to me that all drugs and drug usage erodes the brain,
that brains are required for good art-making,
and that therefore, drugs are bad for artmaking.

even if that'd succeed, i'm sure it'd be an argument ad ignorantiam...

Per said:
As for the rest, the burden of proof is on you. Until you produce something more concrete than "druggies have made some fine shit", you are guilty of fallacies of biased sample, hasty generalization, correlation implies causation, appeal to tradition, and ham sandwich.
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you're quick to throw in a lot of big words and then saying 'now you prove it!'. you didn't prove shit either, my friend...

i say druggies made some fine arts
you say druggies wouldve made better art if they weren't druggies

well, both stances are hard to prove, except we know pretty much all modernday humans and therefore probably also a good handful of artists have used drugs (be they hard, soft or socially accepted ones).

it is clear that druggies have made widely acclaimed art, therefore i say the burden of proof lies with you, not with me.

Per said:
SuAside said:
want an example? Stanley Kubrick. pretty much all of his movies have drug references. he admits to having used LSD and whatnot. i'm guessing SO: 2001 should've been a dead giveaway. how exactly do you believe his work couldve been better if he hadnt used drugs?
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Paths of Glory has drug references? Noooo.
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L2R...

"pretty much" as "is not all, but close enough".
 
A history book about art in the 20th Century might help, read about surrealism, expressionist abstract art, cubism, constructivism and symbolism.
 
IMO, it should always be an individual decision on what you want to do with your life. If you want to sit in your apartment and smoke dubes all day – it should ultimately be your own decision. Everybody who tried/used drugs (unless they are complete morons) should be aware of their pros and cons, and therefore it must be up to the individual to decide whether or not using any kind of substance is worth it (same applies to medication). If you can support your habit, without becoming a strain on society, be my guest, do whatever you can handle.

Having positive or negative predisposition toward something often clouds your judgment and makes you more/less reluctant to do certain things.

Someone once told me that you need to experience things on your own, at least once, to have a proper opinion. If you want to do snorts, go ahead do it – that is if you can handle it. If you can’t, you and society ultimately have a problem. But again, in the end – it’s all up to you. Me, personally I believe in the freedom of choice - Your life is your own, and no one has the right to tell you what to do with it
 
SuAside said:
at least you have to admit that if there were no drugs, there'd be no art with drugs as it's subject...
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Well, that is a safe and pointless statement.

SuAside said:
it is clear that druggies have made widely acclaimed art, therefore i say the burden of proof lies with you, not with me.
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As I said. Biased sample, hasty generalization, correlation implies causation, appeal to tradition, and quite possibly ham sandwich.

SuAside said:
"pretty much" as "is not all, but close enough".
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"Pretty much" all of Kubrick's movies includes Paths of Glory. It's Eyes Wide Shut which isn't included.
 
As far as I'm concerned, I think it's the individual's choice as to which drugs to take or not to take. Yes, I am a believer in free will, in all its aspects. If this seems to be strange to you, then I appologize in advance. I think life is much too short for everyone to try to do only what other people say is correct or legal. Rather, because life really is just the span of a blink of an eye, everyone should be able to experience whatever they want to experience, as long as it causes no harm to other people.

I may not be as extreme as most people when it comes to what I do, I do not follow the whims set about by what our "superiors" believe we should do.

I drink; mainly whiskey, vodka, Schnapps, Vampire Kisses, Dead Hitlers, Hell's Gates, Mudslides, Dirty Girlscouts, beer, etc; and I also smoke weed.
 
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