So...drugs
- Thread starter Volkov
- Start date
wibbly pig
First time out of the vault
I'm a decrim (eventually legalization) advocate, I've been that way for a long time.
To start, most harm associated with drugs is actually due to the enforcement of laws which exaggerate any harm done by the substance itself.
Take for example people who rob to support their drug habits, if drugs were priced normally instead of being exorbitantly expensive because of criminalization, your average druggie could hold down a minimum wage job and keep himself well supplied.
The same thing applies to ODs, many are due to the product being laced or impure, as instead of being handled by pharmacists or responsible people, it's given out by people who are already criminals.
Yeah, drugs will mess you up, but who said it's anybody's business but theirs what they do to themselves?
As for addictions, people can ruin themselves in many ways, alcohol, cigs, gambling, etc, why aren't these just as banned?
To start, most harm associated with drugs is actually due to the enforcement of laws which exaggerate any harm done by the substance itself.
Take for example people who rob to support their drug habits, if drugs were priced normally instead of being exorbitantly expensive because of criminalization, your average druggie could hold down a minimum wage job and keep himself well supplied.
The same thing applies to ODs, many are due to the product being laced or impure, as instead of being handled by pharmacists or responsible people, it's given out by people who are already criminals.
Yeah, drugs will mess you up, but who said it's anybody's business but theirs what they do to themselves?
As for addictions, people can ruin themselves in many ways, alcohol, cigs, gambling, etc, why aren't these just as banned?
Sorrow
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Thats because legislators like to ruin themselves with these thingswibbly pig said:
.
Nah, its just the way our society has developed, there is no real reason alcohol etc. are legal, the order of events in modernisation of our civilisation led it to be that way, we have and are the main influence on the rest of the world therefore what we say for the most part goes. If you were to re-grow our society from the base up pot, crack or opiates could just as well finish up legal.
Personally i am very cautious about any psychoactive substance, we and are exposed to a 'real' world, our reality, our perception. Our reality tends to bore me sometimes and therefore i can easily see the fatal attraction in anything that fucks me up, therefore i tend to avoid it.
Having said that i believe everyone should have at least the opportunity to try powerful psychoactive substances which produce effects so unlike what they are used to. the key is balance and caution and that is the individuals job, not that of the state. therefore i don’t really agree with any form of prohibition. I have eaten shrooms on occasions and tried MDMA, both of these produced spectacular feelings and experiences which is the main reason i am loath to repeat them for at least a year.
Oh and pot and booze both bore me so i avoid them.
[PCE]el_Prez
Vault Fossil
Also you can't just ban everything because you don't like the bad things associated with it. There are millions that die in car crashes... so lets ban driving.
Quantos Leap
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Indeed the best defense of decriminalization is personal freedom, but what about those subjected to the effects of drugs indirectly? What about their freedom can we consider? Were they free to choose to be born into a drug ravaged home? To be fair, addiction and using drugs to a damaging level is usually a byproduct of a fucked up person in general. Perhaps education and psychology alone could be enough to stifle this, but legalization with nothing else would undoubtedly make the problem worse.
Now bring it on you libertarian pussies
Now bring it on you libertarian pussies
This is the logical rhetoric but how effective *is* prohabition at stopping this? And as people have said, alcohol, gambling or any legal addiciton could do just the same.
[PCE]el_Prez
Vault Fossil
Also, people get addicted to lots of different things including food and shopping. Try regulating that shit.
The Vault Dweller
always looking for water.
In total spite of the fact that I have never and will never do drugs I cant justify them being illegal when alcohol, perfectly addictive and destructive, is legal.
Besides...even if it is nowhere near as harmful or addictive, due to its easy access, cheap distribution, and mass production I think television is the most dangerous drug. The addiction percentages may be way lower and the addiction nowhere near as bad, but when 90% of a country has it even a 5% addiction is a terrible problem.
Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller
Besides...even if it is nowhere near as harmful or addictive, due to its easy access, cheap distribution, and mass production I think television is the most dangerous drug. The addiction percentages may be way lower and the addiction nowhere near as bad, but when 90% of a country has it even a 5% addiction is a terrible problem.
Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller
Jarno Mikkola
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
Then how it the h377 can you justify computer games, porn, coffee drinking, chocolate, internet...etc, etc.The Vault Dweller said:
:And yes, I am addicted to all of them.
i think a big factor in recent attitudes saying that drugs are so dangerous was that old idea that marijauna was the most harmless. the other drugs that tend to pop into mind after pot doesn't help either i don't think.
the majority of adult drug users being losers, unintelliegent and/or annoying also does not help.
the majority of adult drug users being losers, unintelliegent and/or annoying also does not help.
wibbly pig
First time out of the vault
Mingus said:Indeed the best defense of decriminalization is personal freedom, but what about those subjected to the effects of drugs indirectly? What about their freedom can we consider? Were they free to choose to be born into a drug ravaged home? To be fair, addiction and using drugs to a damaging level is usually a byproduct of a fucked up person in general. Perhaps education and psychology alone could be enough to stifle this, but legalization with nothing else would undoubtedly make the problem worse.
Now bring it on you libertarian pussies
Really?
So, mom is hitting the crack pipe.
She gets sent to jail, now the kids are without a mom for a few years, if she can even get them back after she gets out.
Or, mom is hitting the crack pipe, kids go into a temporary care facility while she spends a month or so in a treatment program, and since coke and other things aren't illegal she was high but not spending all the family's money on drugs... she can still get a job when she gets back from the treatment, as using drugs isn't something that gives you a criminal record. Etc etc etc.
Yeah, addiction is a bad situation, but which is more productive for society in general?
Let's also ignore that alcohol is probably the worst drug in terms of repercussions on family members.
Face it, the draconian tactics most countries have adopted in the War On some Drugs do more harm than good, unless you build prisons, or can confiscate drug user's property, or have a vested interest in keeping your population under control..
Jarno Mikkola
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
So what country doesn't "have a vested interest in keeping" it's "population under control"wibbly pig said:
:wibbly pig
First time out of the vault
Jarno Mikkola said:So what country doesn't "have a vested interest in keeping" it's "population under control"wibbly pig said:
Ok, possibly that could be phrased a little better..
a vested interest in keeping it's population under its boot heel?
Vicious_Squid
First time out of the vault
Drugs that are ok:
Plants n' Pills
Drugs that aren't ok:
Everything else.
Plants n' Pills
Drugs that aren't ok:
Everything else.
That's neat. Do you have any, you know, arguments for that?
Because I can think of quite a few 'everything else' drugs that are better than 'plants 'n pills' drugs.
Because I can think of quite a few 'everything else' drugs that are better than 'plants 'n pills' drugs.
[PCE said:
What you are saying is illogical to me.
"I can shove a spoon down my respiratory tract, it may kill me, hence it is equally hazardous as a gun"
True, you can kill yourself using practically anything, which doesn`t mean the post hoc results put them all on equal basis.
You can't compare a car which is produced as a means of transportation with a drug whose sole purpose is to impact the functioning of the mind & the body in a destructive way, whether you want to believe it or not.
And before you jump me, yes, I've taken drugs before, both the soft and hard. Their intake only made me aware of their negative effects, at the least on my body, and my mental wellness.
Currently Im abstinent of them, barring alcohol & tobacco, which are legal.
I'm supportive of legalising the posession & sale of marijuana & hash, as long as theyre made unaccessible to minors. With as much traffic as is already going on, keeping these drugs trafficed in the so-called underground makes it more likely that people will buy something spiked with more hazardous drugs. A production for their own needs will at least guarantee that they'll be smoking clean drugs, assuming of course, that they're grown the right way.
Double illogicalness! You see your life span is flawed; for example FAR more people die in car crashes than are killed by LSD, MDMA or cannabis, all classic bad' drugs. Your wooden spoon hypothesis will not hold up in court if myself and Niehem Monarch have a say!
Yoshi, stop spamming.
wibbly pig
First time out of the vault
ola_mala said:
First off, most drugs are not "just a substance created for getting high", cocaine is a topical anesthetic (dentists can obtain it legally for example) the opiate family are quite often used as prescribed painkillers (though heroin is not usually on that list) MDMA was a drug for psychiatric use, etc etc.
There are very few "hazardous" drugs, most deaths from the use come from overdoses (though many more people overdose on ibuprofen), and an overdose is hardly something limited to illicit substances (see hold your wee for wii contest loser). Other deaths come from improper attention to health (someone high on MDMA dances all night, forgets to drink, drops dead of dehydration..) or drugs that have been cut with other unhealthy substances (criminal distribution system again).
Yeah, drugs aren't good, but just because they have the potential for abuse doesn't make them bad either.