STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI (HUGE SPOILERS EVERYWHERE)

It's about familurh, which is why it's so powerful... except it's not, but it's still powerful because.... Subversion!

I mean when the only thing you have to flaunt about your story is how the casting Agency did with the extras you gotta know you are making a soul-less marketing based cash grab.
 
Walpknut said:
They aren't mutually exclusive tho.
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I consider 'forced diversity' bad writing though. Which is funny, as some people often come up to defend it with the argument, 'you dun like gurlz/black/minority xyz in da moviez!'. Which is yes, absolutely what people mean when they critizie Holywood about it ...

I personaly find token characters more rassist to be honest. Particularly as it makes it sound, like the achievements of movies and actors that actually portrayed strong female characters and minorities, didn't matter. Ripley or Sarah Connor don't exist I assume, or Wesley Snipes, Will Smith, Danzel Washington ... I am also really exited about the Black Panther movie and want to see that one in Theaters.

What I would rather want to see, than all this diversive cast, is actually more diversity in the choice of directors and writers to be honest. No one can tell me that there are no talented female directors or black writers out there. I mean seriously. I think they would bring a lot more to the table, particularly as they would actually have a chance to bring the vision and ideas of minorities to the table.
 
What is exactly the thematic axis or the Narrative core of these movies? Because according to fans of the Last Jedi the entire conflict between Empire 2.0 and Rebels 2.0 is irrelevant. Stories usually have themes and a structure, what resonates with people about these disjointed messes?
 
Crni Vuk said:
What I would rather want to see, than all this diversive cast, is actually more diversity in the choice of directors and writers to be honest. No one can tell me that there are no talented female directors or black writers out there. I mean seriously. I think they would bring a lot more to the table, particularly as they would actually have a chance to bring the vision and ideas of minorities to the table.
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Diversity in cast is usually focused on because that's what the audience sees. And it's believed by some that such diversity will lead to the developments that you speak of. If that makes sense, I don't know.
 
They missed a LOT of narrative opportunities with TLJ, really.
Finn could have a nice character arc of going from "coward who's going to desert" to "heroically self-sacrifices and saves the day", but no, Rose stops him and only by luck do they survive.
More focus on Kylo Ren's conflict to kill his mother, only to have his wingman kill her, making it impossible to live up to his desire to be evil (leading him to want to kill Snoke because he failed), but no, Leia survived miraculously only to have her die off-screen now.
This just blows.
 
Why are you people so sure that Leia will die off-screen?
She was already made CGI in Rogue One. That film also had a deceased actor "revived" through CGI - granted, that one was a bit controversial in the end, but it worked.

All I'm saying is that I wouldn't dismiss the possibility that Fischer's estate (or whoever is in charge) wouldn't allow a CGI scene or two.
On the other hand, I also find that somewhat unlikely given that showing on screen death of a CGI character based on a recently deceased actor would be quite unsavory...but not impossible. Also, maybe don't need to show her death scene per se, it could be a flashback of Leia or something.
 
D Borous said:
Diversity in cast is usually focused on because that's what the audience sees. And it's believed by some that such diversity will lead to the developments that you speak of. If that makes sense, I don't know.
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Has it so far? I don't see it. I mean look at the casting of writers and directors of any Star Wars movie so far.
 
Atomkilla said:
Why are you people so sure that Leia will die off-screen?
She was already made CGI in Rogue One. That film also had a deceased actor "revived" through CGI - granted, that one was a bit controversial in the end, but it worked.

All I'm saying is that I wouldn't dismiss the possibility that Fischer's estate (or whoever is in charge) wouldn't allow a CGI scene or two.
On the other hand, I also find that somewhat unlikely given that showing on screen death of a CGI character based on a recently deceased actor would be quite unsavory...but not impossible. Also, maybe don't need to show her death scene per se, it could be a flashback of Leia or something.
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Lucasfilm president Kathleen Kennedy said loud and clear that they won't CGI her into the movie.
I think they built on having Fisher in Episode 9 and when she died and realized that for some reason Fisher was an icon now they refused to rewrite her death into the scene where it made sense because reasons.
 
Hassknecht said:
Lucasfilm president Kathleen Kennedy said loud and clear that they won't CGI her into the movie.
I think they built on having Fisher in Episode 9 and when she died and realized that for some reason Fisher was an icon now they refused to rewrite her death into the scene where it made sense because reasons.
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Oh well, I didn't know that.
 
https://twitter.com/GMA/status/853001259820994562
They can't recast her, either, because again, for some reason Carrie Fisher is now some STRONG WOMAN ROLE MODEL ICON GODDESS (I guess that happened when she was called "General Organa" instead of "Princess Leia" or "that drunkard from the shitty Lifetime movies").
They really wrote themselves into a corner here.
Unless they change their minds, which is of course entirely possible because Disney Wars isn't exactly known for its consistency now.
 
Crni Vuk said:
Has it so far? I don't see it. I mean look at the casting of writers and directors of any Star Wars movie so far.
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That's what I said, but I did not say I believed it myself. What I do believe is that it's ultimately easier to have a diverse cast than a diverse crew, but that's not to say we aren't slowly getting to that point; you mention Black Panther, hopefully that will be good and hopefully the crew behind it that will allow for more projects like it in the future. Wonder Woman might be another such example.

But what I hope is that there's more creative effort put into making these things diverse than just for the sake of it. Again if that makes any sense.
 
Hassknecht said:
Unless they change their minds, which is of course entirely possible because Disney Wars isn't exactly known for its consistency now.
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Didn't they kinda 'symbolicaly' give the resistance to Poe at the end of TLJ? Like when Leia said something like 'Don't look at me'? I mean it probably required a lot of deaths, but now Poe is a super leader that also knows when to retreat!
 
The actor who plays Poe Dameron is Hispanic. Not sure how significant that is in terms of diversity, since it would probably take someone who is more invested in such matters to determine that (the kind of people who make and apply things like the Bechdel test).

I may be wrong in this, but I dont recall there being any "I have a bad feeling about this" line in these new Star Wars film. To me, its pretty much a tried and true "Star Warsism", like calling someone a scruffy nerf herder. Am I the only one who is disappointed about that? (...probably)

Crni Vuk said:
Didn't they kinda 'symbolicaly' give the resistance to Poe at the end of TLJ? Like when Leia said something like 'Don't look at me'? I mean it probably required a lot of deaths, but now Poe is a super leader that also knows when to retreat!
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They did, but calling him the "leader" of anything is kinda generous at this point. I mean, the Resistance is essentially what, 3 fighter pilots, a First Order deserter, a mechanic, an orange butt plug and that kid who sweeps the stables in Canto Bight?
 
To be honest, I can't wait till all the hype really slows down and most of the people that are in denial right now, realize how bad the new Star Wars movies actually are. There are still people out there defending Rey with the argument, that if she is a Mary Sue, so must be Luke!
 
Hassknecht said:
Lucasfilm president Kathleen Kennedy said loud and clear that they won't CGI her into the movie.
I think they built on having Fisher in Episode 9 and when she died and realized that for some reason Fisher was an icon now they refused to rewrite her death into the scene where it made sense because reasons.
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With how little she did in The Last Jedi and them having a WHOLE YEAR to reshoot and re-edit shit why didn't they kill her off instead? That's just self sabotage.
 
Walpknut said:
With how little she did in The Last Jedi and them having a WHOLE YEAR to reshoot and re-edit shit why didn't they kill her off instead? That's just self sabotage.
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Seriously. Her death would have made so much sense and added a lot of great plot points for Kylo Ren (he failed to kill her, after all), but no, she had to survive and they refused to do a tiny bit of reshooting. Whyyyyyy
 
Now they are gonna have to awkwardly insert a line about Leia either:

"She died in the Battle of X 3 years ago"
or
"She is busy in the Battle of X right now"

It's gonna be hilarious.
 
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