Norzan
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Meanwhile i'm waiting for Grim Dawn's newly announced expansion and playing Xenoblade Chronicles 3. Feels like a better use of my time.
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Mr Fish
Slippy sloppy, The
Yknow, the more I see of the face animations for dialogue the more perplexed I am. Why did people shit all over MEAndromeda for its face animations, face textures and wonky looking hair but when it comes to Starfield that is just as bad (if not worse) there isn't a memetrain going on about it?
Also, bad writing.
Let's have boss lady of let's kill people and throw them out of airlocks faction tell a total stranger who her love interest is, that wouldn't make her a target or anything in case the total stranger isn't here for good reasons. Also why are they telegraphing their relationship status to a total stranger and why is love interest lady so willing to spill every bean about their relationship? Finally, there is a moment of show don't tell but Bethesda in their dogshit writing did show and then tell as well, because they think you're as dumb as they are and needed to really bash it into your brain that BOSS LADY IS MORALLY AMBIGUOUS.
Also, bad writing.
Let's have boss lady of let's kill people and throw them out of airlocks faction tell a total stranger who her love interest is, that wouldn't make her a target or anything in case the total stranger isn't here for good reasons. Also why are they telegraphing their relationship status to a total stranger and why is love interest lady so willing to spill every bean about their relationship? Finally, there is a moment of show don't tell but Bethesda in their dogshit writing did show and then tell as well, because they think you're as dumb as they are and needed to really bash it into your brain that BOSS LADY IS MORALLY AMBIGUOUS.
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Eumesmopo
Learned to love the bomb
Bethesda fans have gotten so accustomed with the uncanny valley NPCs since Oblivion that they don't even mind that shit anymore. The camera locking and zooming in on Mr. Potatohead gazing at them like a crackhead tripping balls doesn't even register.
PaxVenire
Wasteland Peacemaker
This is the first setting Todd and Emil had to create completely from scratch, and it shows the limits of their actual creativity.
-The future human civilization is just contemporary 2020s America in space
-The rival factions of United Star Trek Colonies are just different flavors of contemporary 2020s America in space (cowboy americans and cyberpunk americans)
-The entire universe is just modern 2020s America technologically, culturally, ethnically and economically
Starfield is the most creatively lazy setting in recent memory, it's amazing how someone so untalented at worldbuilding as Emil Pagliarulo can continuously be given lead writer and designer positions for RPG projects.
-The future human civilization is just contemporary 2020s America in space
-The rival factions of United Star Trek Colonies are just different flavors of contemporary 2020s America in space (cowboy americans and cyberpunk americans)
-The entire universe is just modern 2020s America technologically, culturally, ethnically and economically
Starfield is the most creatively lazy setting in recent memory, it's amazing how someone so untalented at worldbuilding as Emil Pagliarulo can continuously be given lead writer and designer positions for RPG projects.
Mr Fish
Slippy sloppy, The
Yeah I know it's not the easiest thing to just sum up a sci-fi franchise but... What is the selling point of Starfield exactly? What is the setting? What is the big hook to draw you in?
Star Trek, philosophy and exploration in a post-resource scarcity society where they can focus on exploring the galaxy and the philosophical quandries they come across.
Babylon 5, a sci-fi setting with some light action, primarily focusing on politics between embassies between different races with vastly different cultures and ideologies, trying to maintain peace and stability.
Star Wars, basically an action adventure story with some war elements that has a hefty sprinkle of space magic thrown in along with some narrative structure elements borrowed from tales of old.
Event Horizon, what if a space ship used a hyper drive and disappeared...
Mass Effect, you take on the role as a super special forces human in a galactic society where humans are recently established and many other races view you with suspicion. You are the first of your kind to be this special forces and have to uncover a conspiracy, a murder and an ancient doomsday prophecy all the while holding the fate of humankind on your shoulders based on the choices you make. Also blue space tits.
All I know about Starfield is that Bethesda made a space game. Some organization called Constellation led by a mid granny who wants to fuck you wants you to go on fetch quests to bring back space artifacts from some alien civilization, maybe.
[edit]
Ok, so I read this: https://www.windowscentral.com/gaming/what-is-starfields-story-about
We're a miner, recently hired.
We're shown the ropes, we dig, we find artifcat, we rub it, knocked out.
Wake up, Some dude suddenly shows up out of nowhere, gives you his ship and tells you to go talk to his group of friends.
Apparently he does not come along with you and HIS ship.
You go to meet them, they got their artifact pieces all strewn about a table, why?
Dunno, why are you allowed to place yours next to them?
Dunno, but you do and the pieces start floating. Why?
Dunno, and off you go on a grand adventure for more pieces!
So what is the setting? No idea.
What is the politics? No idea.
What is Constellation? A bunch of naive idiots ready to be taken advantage of.
What are the artifcats? No idea.
Why are they after them? For funsies I guess.
Why do 'you' care? No idea.
I read parts of this: https://www.videogamer.com/guides/starfield-story-plot-explained/
Ok so... All that exists is humans, we've been taking over stuff, but factions have formed and some wars have broken out in the past so factions aren't all buddy buddy with one another.
And I mean there is a plot hook here that could be interesting. What if Earth (which we know is fucked) got... Fucked. And humanity had to scramble together to the stars to forcefully terraform and create new habitable planets, would all of humanity get along? No, it would automatically fracture. Because even if extinction is on the line human nature is still human nature and for a variety of reasons we will find problems with one another, be it over prosperity, resources, politics, religion and so on.
So a sci-fi setting focused on humanity, exploring how different groups would over the course of centuries of isolation from one another and being cut off from earth completely would transform into completely new cultures and ideologies and how those would clash, repeatedly. And here you are, thrown into it, another war potentially brewing between space faring nations and you're left to figure out what these nations are all about, who to support and whether or not you can deescalate things as a kind of rogue ambassador/mercenary.
THAT could be an interesting setting. THAT could be an interesting plot hook.
That's not what Starfield is about though.
Starfield is about shiny stone.
Touch shiny stone.
Shiny stone make head hurt.
Shiny stone bring gay chocolate man.
Gay chocolate man give space ship.
You go with your shiny stone to meet other shiny stone friends.
Put your shine stones together.
Shine stones float!
Wow!
Go find more shiny stones!
I mean, is this it? Is that the plot hook of Starfield? Go find shiny stones cause... Well what the fuck else are you gonna do?
Star Trek, philosophy and exploration in a post-resource scarcity society where they can focus on exploring the galaxy and the philosophical quandries they come across.
Babylon 5, a sci-fi setting with some light action, primarily focusing on politics between embassies between different races with vastly different cultures and ideologies, trying to maintain peace and stability.
Star Wars, basically an action adventure story with some war elements that has a hefty sprinkle of space magic thrown in along with some narrative structure elements borrowed from tales of old.
Event Horizon, what if a space ship used a hyper drive and disappeared...
Then came back and brought hell with it.
Mass Effect, you take on the role as a super special forces human in a galactic society where humans are recently established and many other races view you with suspicion. You are the first of your kind to be this special forces and have to uncover a conspiracy, a murder and an ancient doomsday prophecy all the while holding the fate of humankind on your shoulders based on the choices you make. Also blue space tits.
All I know about Starfield is that Bethesda made a space game. Some organization called Constellation led by a mid granny who wants to fuck you wants you to go on fetch quests to bring back space artifacts from some alien civilization, maybe.
[edit]
Ok, so I read this: https://www.windowscentral.com/gaming/what-is-starfields-story-about
We're a miner, recently hired.
We're shown the ropes, we dig, we find artifcat, we rub it, knocked out.
Wake up, Some dude suddenly shows up out of nowhere, gives you his ship and tells you to go talk to his group of friends.
Apparently he does not come along with you and HIS ship.
You go to meet them, they got their artifact pieces all strewn about a table, why?
Dunno, why are you allowed to place yours next to them?
Dunno, but you do and the pieces start floating. Why?
Dunno, and off you go on a grand adventure for more pieces!
So what is the setting? No idea.
What is the politics? No idea.
What is Constellation? A bunch of naive idiots ready to be taken advantage of.
What are the artifcats? No idea.
Why are they after them? For funsies I guess.
Why do 'you' care? No idea.
I read parts of this: https://www.videogamer.com/guides/starfield-story-plot-explained/
Ok so... All that exists is humans, we've been taking over stuff, but factions have formed and some wars have broken out in the past so factions aren't all buddy buddy with one another.
And I mean there is a plot hook here that could be interesting. What if Earth (which we know is fucked) got... Fucked. And humanity had to scramble together to the stars to forcefully terraform and create new habitable planets, would all of humanity get along? No, it would automatically fracture. Because even if extinction is on the line human nature is still human nature and for a variety of reasons we will find problems with one another, be it over prosperity, resources, politics, religion and so on.
So a sci-fi setting focused on humanity, exploring how different groups would over the course of centuries of isolation from one another and being cut off from earth completely would transform into completely new cultures and ideologies and how those would clash, repeatedly. And here you are, thrown into it, another war potentially brewing between space faring nations and you're left to figure out what these nations are all about, who to support and whether or not you can deescalate things as a kind of rogue ambassador/mercenary.
THAT could be an interesting setting. THAT could be an interesting plot hook.
That's not what Starfield is about though.
Starfield is about shiny stone.
Touch shiny stone.
Shiny stone make head hurt.
Shiny stone bring gay chocolate man.
Gay chocolate man give space ship.
You go with your shiny stone to meet other shiny stone friends.
Put your shine stones together.
Shine stones float!
Wow!
Go find more shiny stones!
I mean, is this it? Is that the plot hook of Starfield? Go find shiny stones cause... Well what the fuck else are you gonna do?
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TheKingofVault14
Fallout Fan For Life!
And actually be PRAISED FOR IT! Seriously it's astonishing for how much praise these guys get, especially when they've been exposed a long time ago, I guess that shows you the dumbed down generation we live in now.
TheGM
The voice of reason
Its all about accessibility, they are very accessible. you don't have to think that much or at all since it is entry level. You know ground floor, bottom shelf, doors wide open, accessible. Everything is spelled out for you in Big BIG letters. Cuts down on the muddlement so you can just play without thinking.
Points if you read this in a Trump voice.
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Norzan
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Bethesda makes baby's first RPGs, which is fine i guess. But the problem is how many people call some of their games as the best of all time, like they can compete with the actual best of all time that have far more depth and work put into them.
TheGM
The voice of reason
Well since most people can best be described as having the mental capacity of infants, baby's first rpg is a godsend.
Mr Fish
Slippy sloppy, The
@TheKingofVault14
I dunno there is something weird about Bethesda and its fans as there seems to be some kind of a blind spot for so much of what they do.
For some reason "Bethesda == Good" and I don't think a lot of people even know why.
They just hear the consensus that Bethesda makes the good games so ok then, they're good.
When they praise Bethesda I don't think they praise them because they have critically reviewed what Bethesda has made and come to an informed conclusion, I think that they praise them because that is "what they're supposed to do", because "Bethesda == Good".
I dunno there is something weird about Bethesda and its fans as there seems to be some kind of a blind spot for so much of what they do.
For some reason "Bethesda == Good" and I don't think a lot of people even know why.
They just hear the consensus that Bethesda makes the good games so ok then, they're good.
When they praise Bethesda I don't think they praise them because they have critically reviewed what Bethesda has made and come to an informed conclusion, I think that they praise them because that is "what they're supposed to do", because "Bethesda == Good".
I genuinely believe that there is a colossal swath out people out there that have no discernment of quality. Like, you know how tone-deaf people sing along to a song and have no idea that they sound like absolute dogshit? It's like that. But for surprisingly everything. If everyone says X is bleh then X is bleh if everyone says that Y is the shiz then Y is the shiz, why?
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Norzan
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Gaming reviewers are partly responsible for this. Seen how many of them sucked Bethesda's dick between Oblivion and Skyrim? 10/10, Game of the Year award, bla, bla, bla. This pretty much tricked a bunch of people into believing that their games were somehow the cream of the crop, the peak of roleplaying games. When most likely most of these reviewers hadn't played any RPG beyond a Bethesda game, or tried like Fallout 1 and started whining that the game wasn't holding their hands, things weren't spelled out to them like they are babies or because it requires far more commitment than a Bethesda game and they don't have time to learn the ropes and actually understand the game due to the fact they have to write articles about bullshit and they can't spend too much time on a game.
Bethesda is the McDonalds of roleplaying games.
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R.Graves
Confirmed Retard
unfair. at least when mcdonalds puts a burger on the menu you do in fact get a burger. they dont give you a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.
Mr Fish
Slippy sloppy, The
With bugs in it, remember the bugs.
eeeet da booogs
ExcelUp
First time out of the vault
The thing is people have become so conditioned to follow a map marker on a compass that when it comes to actually figuring out how to do things themselves they whine "whaa too hard" and instantly bash the game without actually trying.
If people were willing to step out of their comfort zone and actually try I guarantee so many more people would come to the classic Fallout games for example and enjoy them for what they were, but they just point blank refuse.
Mr Fish
Slippy sloppy, The
eh, I dunno about that, wasn't Elden Ring praised by the general public for not having quest markers and shit all over the place?
I really like how you summarize each of these space sci-fi series (and movie) to their basic essentials @Mr Fish, kudos. I always tend to 'overwrite' these things so much, wanting to bring up elements and explain them when they should be something for the potential watcher to check out and not be spoiled.
This also brings up Starfield's campaign's biggest issue; what exactly is the motivation, the player's and that of Constellation and other factions. People want the artifacts as does the player
after touching the beacon, I understand
It can perhaps resurrect Earth? Or lead us to a new Earth?
Yes, this is a setup, it gives us an idea what the state of human society in the galaxy is and what potentially our place and role in it could be? In a way quite similar to my ideas for Fallout Texas right? Or Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri factions. This time not just political ideologies but also philosophies and ideas on how humanity should develop next, but I mentioned that before in this thread and I don't want to sound like someone who is full of their own ideas.
In a way this is so very typical of Bethesda writing; you are looking for the thing because the thing is important. Okay that is a plot device but we need a little more to build a plot on and make the player intrigued to want to find more about it or explore the galaxy and ask others if they have seen more things or what we need to do to get their things.
A low key opening does not need to be a bad thing. I agree with the Codex folk that not every game should open with an explosive Marvel cinematic style opening. But there needs to be more to start with.
I know that Bethesda is going for a 'mystery of the ancients' plot here, but other than it being a tired plot device just mentioning it does not suddenly make the world more interesting. Plenty of people now know Mass Effect which in a way is competition to this game despite being older and more linear.
In Alien the crew of the Nostromo followed the alien transmission and found the Space Jockey ship, a ship made by giants that is so old that it is not know if the species is even around anymore. Soon after Kane is attacked by a facehugger and the story becomes about survival for the remaining crew. But the seeds of for an intriguing mystery and search are there, an alien ship that is possibly more advanced than anything humanity has build, used by alien giants whose civilization is much older than humanity, and a terrifying organism which appearance seems to suggest that it is connected to the creators of the ship, possibly another one of their works.
A follow up would be great on this story, not that it was needed (Prometheus and Convenant have effectively killed my interest). There is an advanced alien civilization out there whose technological remains could advance us with thousands of years of scientific development, but they also make terrifying weapons capable of wiping out entire biospheres. (long before Prometheus and Convenant I already supported the idea that the Jockey ship was a 'space bomber' with the Alien eggs its payload)
But there you have a mystery and a plot hook. A race for advanced technology and a possible threat if any of the technology makers' weapons are still active.
R.Graves
Confirmed Retard
99% of scifi writers deciding weather to write about aliens, ai, or maybe clones:
Bethesda on its way to write about nothing:
theres only two possible scenarios.
1) they're weapons, engineered or not doesn't really matter
2)they were cargo on the way to a space zoo
not a lot of reasons for animals to be on a ship in such large quantities.
Bethesda on its way to write about nothing:
well thats the inherent probelm with trying to give the alien a backstory isnt it?
theres only two possible scenarios.
1) they're weapons, engineered or not doesn't really matter
2)they were cargo on the way to a space zoo
not a lot of reasons for animals to be on a ship in such large quantities.
T
TorontoReign
Guest
Spoony was wrong about FF8 and also probably has a vagina by now.
Mr Fish
Slippy sloppy, The
Mass Effect is also great at giving you a hook and good writing because it has multiple hooks.
1. It sets up the universe with a few bits of information about humanities role in it. (setting)
2. It establishes the Spectres and also that you are on trial to join them. (faction)
3. Nihilus that is supposed to review you is murdered by Saren, both Spectres. (conspiracy)
4. The Geth are seen on the planet and they are explained to never venture out of their home. (establishing a foe for this installment of the series)
5. The Geth are using nano machine spiks to turn people into rave-zombies. (body horror)
6. You get to the artifact and accidentally activate it, the result is that you get a series of imagery, a vision of technological horror. (horror + mystery)
7. A giant spaceship, the likes of which has never been seen is seen leaving the atmosphere. (mystery + awe)
8. Once you finish your mission and report to the council you are made a Spectre and made informed of just how important your decisions will be. (giving you a sense of responsibility)
9. Gives you a politician to hate. (lol)
This is in the first what? 40 minutes? Maybe 20 if you don't mess around too much?
THIS is how you set up a RPG sci-fi universe of "grand scale". If one plot hook fails there are others that might hook you.
[edit]
Also as I've been walking around today trying to get my 20K steps in I've been thinking of new sci-fi settings and I managed to come up with like 4 different sci-fi settings that could all have been super interesting and only one of them included aliens. If I cam come up with ideas in just a few minutes each time and they had years of pre-production then... What happened?
[edit2]
Two of my ideas didn't have aliens or AI as a heavy part of them. One of them was basically Starfield's artifact fragments except mixed in with Highlander basically. Each fragment can give you powers and everyone in power want those objects to turn the tide in their favor but the power you got from touching yours is the power of locate the other fragments, whether they are in the ground or whether they belong to someone. Once attached to a person the only way for them to "detatch" is for the person to die. So it basically turns into a highlander situation of there can only be one.
The other idea was basically that an isolated star system isn't doing too peachy. A lot of hardship has been happening over decades and people are turning desperate. In that desperation a lot of people try to seek answers in religion (New religions) however because the world order isn't doing too well either eventually some agencies start to crack and in that crack came a little tiny bit of information that eventually they had to 'come clean with', and that information is this. God is dead, and we got pictures to prove it. See there is an entity in deep space that is a giant corpse, and when I say giant I mean there is no planet that could ever house this being and there is no way this being could survive or grow to this kind of size by just being a space creature but the most important bit of evidence is this, people who feel in their hearts that god exist, whenever they were brought in to see these images would know that god is dead and it is a fact. The mere viewing of these images just confirms something in their hearts that leaves them completely and utterly hopeless. Reason this was under lock and key is, well, obvious. But the agency that had it under lock and key got a whistleblower now that order is falling apart and the imagery is out. And it causes chaos.
There's more to it than that of course but yeah story hook is god is dead and struggling people in a very downtrodden system suddenly turns hopeless and feels like everything is meaningless and chaos ensues, you're a cop who has to keep the peace, but it's getting violent...
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True. Or people becoming cyborgs.
The sci-fi idea pool has been rather over-recycled.
Ugh, I forgot to mention that in my previous post but from its description it sounds like Bethesda has made Starfield the Seinfeld of games.
True. I can see how this dismantles the mystery.