Students of Fallout

[Ausir]

The author of the essay, Michael Abbott, posted in the Beth forum:

Thanks for posting a link to my essay, Raphaelp. I encourage readers to also check out the comments to my post, including several that elaborate a bit on the story and my students' attitudes about the Fallout series.

A few people here have questioned how "real" this story is. I understand it can be difficult to verify the authenticity of stuff you read on the internet. In this case, I'll point you to the course description that appears on my college's website as evidence that I do, in fact, teach such a course. As for my students' "conversion," I tried to relate it as accurately as possible, and all the forum quotes I used are verbatim from posts made by students. Aside from these things, I'm not sure what more I can say.

Here's the link: http://tinyurl.com/598wl2

I appreciate your interest in my post.

It would be cool if those older games could have their graphics updated to better suit today's machines.

It's not only about the graphics, also controls.

 

[PaladinHeart]

The only benefit I know of for 3D systems is that it seems easier for modders to put in a new 3D character, item, etc.. than it would be for a 2D based game.

Just look at how many new graphics there are for Fallout mods, in comparison to, say, Morrowind.

For the longest time the 2D games looked far better than the 3D ones.

 

[SuAside]

there's a thing i wonder about, actually:

will the students thank the teacher for showing them such a good game, or will they eventually grow to feel that by raising their standards, the teacher has actually poisoned their future game experiences?
ignorance could be bliss... now they'll be pissed off at the rape of the Fallout series now that FO3 is coming out and without a doubt every RPG played will be compared on some level to the original Fallouts... maybe due to that, they'll enjoy their future experiences less.

strange ideas, i know.

I can't believe all the comments about Fallout being unrelenting, non user friendly or tough to get into

from a design point of view, i'd actually have to say it could've been a lot more user-friendly.

but when i think about it... i was a kid when FO1 came out, and english was my third language. i really had no problem at all getting into it. i cursed a few times in the rat cave, grabbed the manual, read it and started making my way through it (realising that i didn't even have to waste bullets and that if i made my char with a little more forethought, this was a fuckton easier). so yes, the current gamers have fallen far, if near-adults can't figure that stuff out.

but aside from that, i think there are still some glaring flaws, such as inventory being suckass etc. i'll gladly live with those flaws however, since it's one of the best games (if not the best) i've ever played.

 

[TTTimo]

It's not only about the graphics, also controls.

If the games had good controls and mechanics those would not need updating, unless you are talking about key mapping. Since the main barrier of entry to older games seems mainly to be the graphics, that alone would be an improvement. Maybe sound as well.

 

[Sorrow]

@Rev.

You think that was annoying, I believe it was the first Sim City that had a magenta piece of paper that had various symbols printed on it.

When installing, you had to find the correct code sequence, and enter the corresponding password to progress.

Now THAT was a pain in the ass.

Personally I don't care about the scale of the pain. I find both inexcusable enough to turn me off from paying a developer for such a game.

A review in Computer Gaming World viewed the game positively, noting, "The game design is clean, the graphics excellent and no bugs were found."

Bugless games should be a standard.

 

[Pope Viper]

Bugless games will no longer be out, it will be just varying levels, I'm afraid.

Woe to the consumer.

 

[Brother None]

It would be cool if those older games could have their graphics updated to better suit today's machines.

It's not only about the graphics, also controls.

Sure, graphics and controls get outdated by default. A lot of our mods (high resolution, Timeslip's tweaks) fix quite a bit of that graphic/control bit. And maybe games will be so simplified in 10 years time that Fallout will look as impossible and hard to play then as Wizardry 3 does not. I can't imagine that, tho', I think gaming has hit rock bottom with games like Dungeon Siege and Space Siege.

That said, I do think some games could do with remakes, not changing anything in content or gameplay but just tweaking interface and upgrading graphics, voice acting (and translations). Fallout doesn't need it, tho'. I think the most urgently deserving game for that has to be Pathologic. Or maybe Prelude to Darkness

 

[Sorrow]

Bugless games will no longer be out, it will be just varying levels, I'm afraid.

Woe to the consumer.

Isn't it amusing that an industry whose existence relies solely on honesty of its customers doesn't know the concept of customer rights or producers responsibility?

 

[Pope Viper]

Very. When did the industry start serving the interest of the advertisers and game companies rather than the customers?

 

[Jabu]

It's not only about the graphics, also controls.

If the games had good controls and mechanics those would not need updating, unless you are talking about key mapping. Since the main barrier of entry to older games seems mainly to be the graphics, that alone would be an improvement. Maybe sound as well.

I think what Ausir was referring to were the---from today's point of view---awkward, and unintuitive game play mechanics. I tried playing Wasteland myself a few years ago, but the design was so archaic that to me it was borderline incomprehensible. Sure, I had no manual to help me out, but it would still require me to shift my whole gaming mentality. And its a pity. There are so many examples of other games were this proved the case, especially given the limited amount of time I have to commit to gaming recently. Unfortunately improved graphics would not significantly help, because if its the underlying mechanics of play that are incompatible with our mindsets. Imagine controlling the beautifully sparkly Mass Effect through Fortran. Graphics ain't gonna change shit.

 

[Sorrow]

Very. When did the industry start serving the interest of the advertisers and game companies rather than the customers?

I suspect it has something to do with most of customers being altruistic, dedicated and lacking a sense of entitlement.
That and gaming being an addiction.

Basically people are so high on ideals of supporting developers and having fun with games that they overlook that the developers treat them like shit.
Taking in account that people still buy games despite that their license agreements practically free the developers from any responsibility for the product their sell, they got what they deserve.

I recently had a dubious pleasure of talking with a developer about the quality of their games and I found his mentality sickening.
Developers feel entitled to be able to sell bugged, often unfinished games and anyone who dislikes it is a "whiner". They simply know no concept of customer rights.

The only way to change it would be talking about it loudly and working on changing the mentality of buyers so that the market would stop being friendly to such practices.

 

[Morbus]

That and gaming being an addiction..

How's it an addiction? Are you addicted to reading a newspaper or watching television news perhaps? Some games are addictive, but I believe the main cause is not that. Most of the issue comes from most players being complete morons. Some of them though, are like me, and are just partially morons, and have some ideas of their own. No Atari, no Ubisoft and no EA. Those are my ideas. From the looks of it Bethesda is joining the group...

 

[FeelTheRads]

1.Dragon Quest VIII
2.Oblvion
3.Mass Effect
4.Tales of Vesperia
5.Final Fantasy Tactics Advance

Teh awesome.

My favorite shooter is Guitar Hero, my favorite racing game is Tomb Raider and without a doubt my favorite football manager is StarCraft (N64 version, obviously).

Now, how about playing some real RPGs? Or some real games for that matter.

I'm terrible about reading manuals and whatnot,...

Terrible about reading manuals... what does that mean? It sounds like it requires some additional knowledge besides reading, like a skill that needs developing.

Like it's only after you play a game like this that you realize how much easier having glowing objects of interest is.

Oblivion must've had plenty of objects of interest... what with that bloom and all.

Also lol@redscorpians

 

[Ausir]

Bethesda's Ricardo Gonzalez says:

I think this article very nicely captures my own first experiences with the original Fallouts, especially one of the comments:

In that sense, the experience of being thrust out of the vault is complete, as the player doesn't just start with no information. The player starts with no information, and the niggling suspicion that they are responsible for having made their survival impossible.

My entire first playthough was like that: seeing opportunities missed, quest lines I wouldn't be able to follow, enemies I wouldn't be able to kill, and the constant thought, "Crap, I screwed myself, didn't I?" I never "got" that the designers were purposefully attempting to invoke a desolate, man-vs-unfeeling-world ambience until later on; at the time, I just thought they were being big jerks about it. Much like the students, if it wasn't for my friends urging onward to play, I would've ended up one of the probably many casualities who picked up Fallout, got frustrated, and never looked back.

At any rate, it's nice to hear that I wasn't the only one who had a tough time getting to know and appreciate those there "choices and consequences".

 

[Pope Viper]

Too bad it didn't sink in enough to affect FO3.

 

[Futch]

Okay, this is too much... I played Fallout when I was 14, and we don't even speak english here.

It was my first rpg ever and I had to play it in a language that wasn't my mother tongue, nevertheless I got it without help.

I'm just feeling people are getting dumber, lazier or something.

 

[shihonage]

Amazing article. Made my day.

Truth prevails.

 

[alec]

Nice read and a nice 'experiment' actually. Real quality (=Fallout) will eventually win over even the most negative/lazy/empty of minds.

I'm just feeling people are getting dumber, lazier or something.

QFT. Welcome to the 21st century!

 

[Public]

Okay, this is too much... I played Fallout when I was 14, and we don't even speak english here.

It was my first rpg ever and I had to play it in a language that wasn't my mother tongue, nevertheless I got it without help.

I'm just feeling people are getting dumber, lazier or something.

Same here. The only English I've known was from Cartoon Network back then (uhh, I still remember "2 stupid dogs" ).
I started with FO2 actually. It came out in the CD Action magazine.
That "Temple of Trails" was making me not wanting to play the game. I think it took me 2-3 times in the Temple to understand the TB combat. But I didn't quit!

When I understood the mechanics, got out from the ToT, the game started to "drill me in".

It would be cool if those older games could have their graphics updated to better suit today's machines.

It can be done. There are open-source 3D engines (like Ogre), but no people to do it I'm affraid.

Fallout Tactics had nice graphics, but it didn't have a ModTool as far as I remember.

 

[Sorrow]

FT had a modding toolset but lacked proper graphics converters. Also, it lacked people who would actually make and animate 3D models for conversion.
And it didnt't have dialogue trees.

Personally, I would find FT level of graphics sufficient. What I would really want would be improved mechanics and open source engine.