Terrorist attack on French satirical magazine

There were rounds of gunfire and several explosions heard at the printworks where the brothers have been holed up this afternoon. The gunfire came minutes after armed counter-terror officers were seen traveling towards the building.

There appears to be smoke coming from the printworks at Dammartin-en-Goele
 
Guys, if you're going to post a bit of news in here, try to add a source. Otherwise this is just going to devolve into random rumor mongering.

SnapSlav said:
If "because Islam" and PC weren't impacting these decisions, then why are stereotypically "not Muslim" individuals such as adult white males stopped and harassed by the TSA equally as much as everyone, including stereotypically "Muslim" individuals? Because political correctness HAS impacted the process, and always for the worse. Making a process that should be based on expediency suddenly cumbersome simply because you are compulsorily mandated to hassle all parties equally is great for PC proponents, but a nightmare for anyone with rational mind.
Because they're not. The TSA and every other airport security apparatus I know of engages heavily in racial profiling. Talk to anyone who looks vaguely Middle Eastern and they'll talk about how they get pulled aside for random checks a lot more than anyone else. Hell, there's a whole wikipedia page on the thing. HuffPo has a whole section on the thing. The TSA and the authorities have actually defended the process, and the latest federal restrictions on racial profiling will not apply to airport security checks. "Flying while Muslim" is a well-known expression for a reason. Whether or not it should be, airport security checks are not affected by "political correctness."

My point wasn't that what's being done is effective. My point was that whatever we are or aren't doing, political correctness isn't affecting the process -- because it's not. Nor is some perceived sensitivity to Muslim concerns. But the insistence that it is corrupting the process, that we'd somehow be more effective with dealing with dangers to 'Western' societies if we'd just stop being sensitive to nuance and people's identities, we'd get to taking the actually necessary steps -- that insistence is nothing but a rationalization for the taking of more and more oppressive measures. The answer is somehow never to be more understanding, or more cooperative with marginalized groups -- it's just more oppression, harsher measures, more violation of people's rights, all in an effort to create a false sense of security.

My second point is that sensitivity and political correctness should absolutely concern us. They should concern everyone. Because those people being profiled, harassed, oppressed and treated as as second-class citizens are human beings and citizens who deserve to be treated as individuals, whose rights do not deserve to trampled just because you're scared of what a very small number of people who look like them might do. When we start implementing policies that harm entire groups of people, we're abandoning the very core tenets that are supposed to protect everyone. Instead, we apparently abandon those principles as soon as we get afraid -- and then we start arguing over how those core tenets are actually endangering our very culture, like our dear old alec is doing.
 
Horrendous? Say hello to the future of Europe. This is the kind of world the last two generations of politicians have created for you and your children. You should be glad. It's a utopia, you just fail to see it. Just listen to liberal left: multiculturalism is the most responsible population policy ever. To quote John Derbyshire:

The Diversity Theorem: Groups of people from anywhere in the world, mixed together in any numbers and proportions whatsoever, will eventually settle down as a harmonious society, appreciating—nay, celebrating!—their differences... which will of course soon disappear entirely.

You just have to be a bit patient. You see muslim terrorist attacks, I see well-meant, but somewhat amateurish attempts to integrate. The death of a couple of cartoonists, a couple of journalists, a couple of policemen, ... it is only a small price to pay for the grand multicultural project. Sacrifices need to be made.

Just be patient. In a couple of weeks, months, maybe years, Europe will be the glorious peaceful meltingpot that it strives to be. I'm a fan. Are you?


All I can say is that in Germany the Muslims and the Islam are no issue, not to those of us that have grown up with Muslims, Arabians and the like, I know a lot of young Muslims. And I remember those as peaceful and honest people.

However there is a lot of propaganda and agitation in the German media. But I am not afraid of radical Islamists, I am worried about the right wing in Germany because they are growing and getting more support by the middle class. In Dressden for example a big city located in Saxon 10 000 people have been demonstrating against immigration it is a goup with a very high xenophobic attitude, this PEGIDA movement started their demonstrations before the attacks in France by the way.

However what people don't really mention here is that since the 1990 more than 200 people have been killed by Neo-Nazis, they are in my opinion a much bigger threat to the German society not to mention because they are already in the politics with their parties, like NPD and AfD. Nonetheless from 2001 to 2011 a group of 3 Nazis have been killing 9 people and 1 police officer, yet the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution failed to identify the offenders for 10 years. It was either sheer incompetence, or the killer-group had supporters. I don't know what is worse.

For several years the "I don't have issues with immigrants/foreigners but (insert your racist comment here)" opinion has been steadily growing in Germany. 20% of the German population has a xenophobic attitude, more than 40% of the population in Saxon. 10 000 demonstrated against 0,4% of the population. 0,4% of the population in Saxon are Muslims, 2,4% of the population in Germany are Muslims. Yet more then 200 people have been killed in the last 20 years by Nazis. I am the only one who's seeing a problem here?

And people are worried about the Islam? Again, I can ONLY talk for Germany here, and I am born in Germany and I have grown up here but my parents are from Serbia. Maybe I have a different opinion, no clue. But I just find it very sad that to see this agitation agains the Islam as whole like Germany will turn in to Syria or some dictatorship tomorrow when I fear the real danger is coming from a different direction.

What I remember though from my youth:

I have never ever seen even ONE muslim terrorist in real life. Never any armed Islamist with the intention to overthrow this government.

What I have seen though over the years, radical nazis going on a rampage and demonstrating in this town and in other towns against immigrants. I can remember a soccer game here in my town where a group of Nazis was shouting racistic garbage at one of the players with African heritage playing for the enemy team.

At leas with Germany, I will say this again. The Islam is the last of our problems.

And this doesn't mean I never had issues with certain people. I was once attacked by a muslim girl in school. But not because of religion, it was because she came from Kosovo and I was a Serb. A decade later we are greating each other and she has a child, a normal job and living a peacefull live.

I am not talking about you in particiular Alec, but many people here have a wrong picture about the Islam. The Islam, in my opinion, is not a good form or government. But in that sense it is not different to Judaism or Christianity, as we have seen in the past. Religion in general simply doesnt make good governments.
 
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Well the children from the school were safely evacuated. Also I think all hostages have been released alive and well. Perps are dead.
 
And it is resolved. Vive la France!

Nice short overview of what is really going on.

All I can say is that in Germany the Muslims and the Islam are no issue, not to those of us that have grown up with Muslims, Arabians and the like, I know a lot of young Muslims. And I remember those as peaceful and honest people.

That must be the reason that Merkel stated on camera that the multicultural project had failed miserably in Germany. Yeah, that must be it. :roll:



Also: maybe next month. Don't think Germany is immune to this virus.
 
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If all you are capable of is posting a reductio ad Hitlerum, then waste someone else's time, will you?

Hitler was evoked earlier in this thread.

Yea I don't know. Some people speak like they are a general in some army and are giving orders to soldiers even if they have zero days in the military. Then there are military guys who are very much against war, violence etc. I find that interesting.
 
I remember some other German leader saying something about a failed multicultural project, hmm...a guy with a mustache...

If all you are capable of is posting a reductio ad Hitlerum, then waste someone else's time, will you?
Why? He has a point. "This political leader says it" is not particularly good proof of anything except that that political leader thinks it (or thinks it's beneficial for their career). Merkel is perfectly capable of being wrong. And she is.
 
Atleast these clowns are dead and no further people have been killed.

Still 'funny' to read here that some people will never learn. Can't wait to dance around trees singing kumba ya while talking about me simply being a white man opresses those poor poor people who come here abuse the welfare system and laugh at how stupid out politicans are.
 
You talking about being a white man doesn't oppress people. The myth that those people who are regularly discriminated against and hated by large portions of society "come here abuse the welfare system and laugh at how stupid out politicans are," that certainly does contribute to that oppression though. Not only is it bullshit, it is part of the narrative that "those people" aren't part of society, they're outside of it. They're different. They don't belong. They're exploiting society. All of that.

And all of that, every single little bit of it, is complete horseshit.

Seriously, how difficult it is to see people as just human beings, just like everyone else?
 
I can't imagine subscribing so heavily to any religion or cause as to want to slaughter people for "god" or throw my life away. What an absolute waste. Even these terrorists were just children like everyone else once. What a world, that we keep producing these fools, partially through war and discrimination. But the root of much nonsense seems to be in religion where no one's life holds much value in the context of there being some kind of afterlife.
 
parisshootingchronology.png

Here's a chronological look at what happened.
 
@SurfSolar: yes, Hitler pops up constantly when these rhetorical amateurs are at play. And 99% of the time he is abused.

Why? He has a point.
No, he doesn't. And the fact that you say he does, once again proves my point that you and logic are not compatible. I urge you to read up on rhetorical fallacies. You will learn a ton.

"This political leader says it" is not particularly good proof of anything except that that political leader thinks it (or thinks it's beneficial for their career). Merkel is perfectly capable of being wrong. And she is.

No, she is not. And may I say that on the subject of German politics I tend to trust her opinion somewhat more than the opinion of a twenty-something Dutchman with obvious delusions of grandeur. Again you show us that you have lost all touch with reality, which is something that happens often to people who present themselves as social justice warriors. The muslim terrorists in this world are another group of people who have lost all touch with reality, so it is no surprise to me that you would rather defend a culture you have no ties with whatsoever than your own. You sad, little oikophobe. You still don't get it, do you? Freedom will win. People will speak their minds once again. You and your liberal left cronies have lost the battle against islam. You've lost. They are not what you lefties have been trying to make us believe all these years. They do have a problem. A serious one. And the West is finally waking up after you lefties bored it to sleep. Say goodbye to political correctness, Sander. The debate is wide open again and shushing people with stupid misnomers like 'islamophobe' and 'racist' is passé. Prepare to get offended. :rofl:

Also, but this was obvious even to my neighbour's cat: Merkel isn't the only politician in Germany and certainly not the only one in Europe who has claimed that the multicultural project has failed. Being the self-proclaimed human sans faults you are, I assumed your deluded brains already knew this. Maybe you're thinking you can waste my time by making me post a list of them, but that won't happen. Just search the alcoves of your cranium, you're sure to bump into the names sooner or later.
 
Seriously, how difficult it is to see people as just human beings, just like everyone else?
Shouldn't we prioritize impressing this on the guys who murder cartoonists and behead people, over the people exercising their rights to say what they want, however disagreeable their opinions might be?
 
You talking about being a white man doesn't oppress people. The myth that those people who are regularly discriminated against and hated by large portions of society "come here abuse the welfare system and laugh at how stupid out politicans are," that certainly does contribute to that oppression though. Not only is it bullshit, it is part of the narrative that "those people" aren't part of society, they're outside of it. They're different. They don't belong. They're exploiting society. All of that.

And all of that, every single little bit of it, is complete horseshit.

Seriously, how difficult it is to see people as just human beings, just like everyone else?

Ah so because I am a white male I should feel ashamed 24/7 because this automatically means I am an evil opressor, even though I never actively do so. It just is that way apparently.

And again with that feelings bullshit. It's easy to say 'can't we all just get along, we're human beings ;__;' from your ivory tower of wealth and relative security in europe. Meanwhile in reality this simply doesn't work.

Have you ever lived in a 'culturally enriched' part of your city? I did. And people were constantly getting simply for being german daring to set foot in their little enclave built on welfare. There were shops were you were not meant to go as a german if you didnt want to get harmed. Germans being insulted as fucking stupid, how they are superior and soon to overrule the country anyway and yadda yadda. People being called infidels because they are not muslim and thus deserve to be killed was the norm. And I know exactly the same from many friends in different cities around here.

So forgive me if I can't appreciate that glorious multiculti that you praise so much. I once thought pretty similar that each human being should deserve the same respect like anyone else. Then I grew up and saw how it is in the real world. :roll:
 
I think political correctness is not going away anytime soon, especially not by something like this.
Already many mainstream media institutions are starting to print critiques of Charlie Hebdo's caricatures and a general reluctance to put their pedestal too high. The initial feeling of "western brotherhood" is already fading, and some hardcore right-wingers are already starting to smell conspiracy and false flag operations.
 
No, she is not. And may I say that on the subject of German politics I tend to trust her opinion somewhat more than the opinion of a twenty-something Dutchman with obvious delusions of grandeur. Again you show us that you have lost all touch with reality, which is something that happens often to people who present themselves as social justice warriors. The muslim terrorists in this world are another group of people who have lost all touch with reality, so it is no surprise to me that you would rather defend a culture you have no ties with whatsoever than your own. You sad, little oikophobe. You still don't get it, do you? Freedom will win. People will speak their minds once again. You and your liberal left cronies have lost the battle against islam. You've lost. They are not what you lefties have been trying to make us believe all these years. They do have a problem. A serious one. And the West is finally waking up after you lefties bored it to sleep. Say goodbye to political correctness, Sander. The debate is wide open again and shushing people with stupid misnomers like 'islamophobe' and 'racist' is passé. Prepare to get offended. :rofl:

Also, but this was obvious even to my neighbour's cat: Merkel isn't the only politician in Germany and certainly not the only one in Europe who has claimed that the multicultural project has failed. Being the self-proclaimed human sans faults you are, I assumed your deluded brains already knew this. Maybe you're thinking you can waste my time by making me post a list of them, but that won't happen. Just search the alcoves of your cranium, you're sure to bump into the names sooner or later.

I've visited Belgium, nice country. Nice chocolate shops with excellent chocolate in Brussels. Visited the Justice Palace, big building on a hill that has a pretty dark history. I don't tell what Belgians should do with their country, are you telling the Germans what they should do with theirs?
 
alec said:
I urge you to read up on rhetorical fallacies. You will learn a ton.
Oh yeah, I forgot about your obsession with shouting "fallacy." Maybe you can use it to look up what's wrong with "these politicans say X therefore it's true."

I do have ties to Islam, though. Because Islam is a part of European culture. Muslims are a part of European society, and human society. I doubt you'll ever wake up to that reality, sadly. I doubt you'll ever understand that Muslim Europeans (or just Muslims in general) are not an external force, not enemies, but just human beings trying to live their lives alongside everyone else.

I'm not the one who hates a culture, no matter how often you want to throw around that word you copied from the douchiest Dutch "intellectual" I've ever seen. No, alec, it seems to me that you're the one who actually hates a specific culture.

Shouldn't we prioritize impressing this on the guys who murder cartoonists and behead people, over the people exercising their rights to say what they want, however disagreeable their opinions might be?
I wasn't aware we had to choose between one or the other. We can do both, y'know. Of course, one group consists of a few hard-to-reach extremists, and the other seems to consist of around 20% of the European population.
 
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