The Guns and Ammo Thread

[TheWesDude]

from what i know NATO rounds are overcharged rounds.

not very good to use in a standard hunting rifle, but if you have one of those like military style rifles such as the AR-15 and such, they have much more reinforcing in them to handle them.

 

[SuAside]

from what i know NATO rounds are overcharged rounds.

No.

9x19mm NATO is more powerful than 9x19mm Para (but only in the US because you guys are limpwristed faggots ).
5.56x45mm NATO is more powerful than .223Rem.
.308Win is however more powerful than 7.62x51mm NATO.

So it depends on what ammo you're talking about and where you are.

Here, M193 which is 5.56x45 is sold as .223Rem and what you call 9x19mm Para +P we just buy as 9x19mm plain jane.


Either way, the distinction tends only to matter for older guns that were pressure sensitive or for accurized weapons tweaked for a certain cartridge. For instance a .223Rem bolt action might lock up its bolt if you shoot 5.56x45mm through it. New weapons are pretty much always safe to shoot with either variants due to proofing laws.

But in the end: RTFM. If your manual has a warning not to shoot the more powerful variant, then don't.

 

[DammitBoy]

Rugers are built like tanks, I'm sure it will be able to handle the most powerful commercial loads I can find.

Most ballistic loading guidebooks have a completely separate column called "ruger only" loads.

If I was a reloader, I'd be able to put some pretty souped up loads through it. I usually stick with Hornady though, their shit is the bomb.

 

[JohnnyEgo]

On the tail end of a brief visit home, but I figured I'd post up a few pictures of my GSR as inspired by DB.

I am not a big fan of the 'Scout' concept, but I do like a utilitarian, compact bolt action rifle. I've never had an M77 action before, so it seems a little stiffer then what I am accustomed to in my 700 and my AI. On the plus side, regular old AI mags fit just fine.

I bought two of the poly 10 round mags, and I am a bit on the fence. They are lighter and smaller than the metal mags, and lock up tighter. However, they don't seem to be feeding all that smoothly.

I have ordered the XS Scout rail, and I plan on mounting a Leupy VX-II series low power scope, probably something like 1-4 or 2-7, in the traditional location. Long eye relief optics have never worked all that well for me in a forward mount. I'm also ditching the factory flash hider and going with a thread protector until my 762 SD silencer gets approved.

I haven't had the opportunity to shoot it yet, but I think it handles nicely and will be an excellent all-purpose rifle out to 300 yards.

 

[Idiotfool]

I just blew a chunk of money on this puppy:

A 12-gauge AK style semi-auto shotgun... but better. The magazines slap in, like an AR, and the bolt holds open on the last shot, unlike a SAIGA. Also, unlike a SAIGA, the gas vents automatically, so it cycles any load without user input. I just picked it up today, so I haven't ran with it, yet, but I plan to just put on a red-dot... maybe a stock and grip change at some point down the road, but I'm good for now.

I plan on getting an EAA Witness .45/.22 combo, too, but everywhere is out of stock.

I've got:

A 1937 Marlin 39, with Octagon Barrel and a 1970's H&R 949

A Remington 700 in .223

A Weatherby Vanguard in .308

A Ruger 10/22 Stainless Steel Rifle (not the normal carbine) and a Winchester Wildcat (import of a Tula TOZ 78-12)

I've since stripped the trigger guard on the Ruger so that it matches the stainless look better...

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[DammitBoy]

On the tail end of a brief visit home, but I figured I'd post up a few pictures of my GSR as inspired by DB.

great pics and good info, but how did I inspire you to get one?

 

[JohnnyEgo]

You inspired me to get off my butt and take pictures. I've actually owned the rifle for a month or two now, but haven't taken it out of the box.

If it turns out that I like the GSR, I am thinking about picking up an M77/44 and having it integrally suppressed by SRT.

 

[SuAside]

Can you guys report on the accuracy (no cheating!) of the Ruger scout rifles?

A 12-gauge AK style semi-auto shotgun... but better.

It's actually an RPK based semi-auto shotgun.

Izhmash Saiga = AK based
Molot Vepr = RPK based

The difference is slim, since the RPK is a beefed up AK, but still it's worth noting.

Winchester Wildcat (import of a Tula TOZ 78-12)

A vastly underappreciated firearm if you ask me. For the extremely low price they used to sell for, it was one hell of a gun.

 

[JohnnyEgo]

I haven't shot mine yet, but my little buddies are reporting MOA to 1.5 MOA at 100 yards with the PMC 147gr. This is certainly not match grade ammo or a match grade barrel (16" tapered profile) but it is good enough for hunting and utility work. When I shoot for groups or distance, I'm still reaching for the AI. On the other hand, I don't feel compelled to put a $3,500 scope on the GSR.

 

[DammitBoy]

Mine won't get here until the 28th.

But everything I've read about range reports supports what Johnny says and if that holds true, I'll be very happy with 1" moa at 100 yards and 2.5" moa at 300 yards.

That'll work for deer, hawgs and zombies...

 

[Idiotfool]

Can you guys report on the accuracy (no cheating!) of the, Ruger scout rifles?

A 12-gauge AK style semi-auto shotgun... but better.

It's actually an RPK based semi-auto shotgun.

Izhmash Saiga = AK based
Molot Vepr = RPK based

The difference is slim, since the RPK is a beefed up AK, but still it's worth noting.

Winchester Wildcat (import of a Tula TOZ 78-12)

A vastly underappreciated firearm if you ask me. For the extremely low price they used to sell for, it was one hell of a gun.

True, it is an RPK descendant. But it still equates to an ak type action.

Yes, I'm quite happy with my wildcat. I want a sporter toz to go with it, since i have the wildcat bull barrel target.

 

[TheWesDude]

so i was thinking of buying a handgun.

i want something larger than a .22

but i would also want something that if all hell broke loose, i could fire it say indoors without it going through 3-4 walls.

and has a relatively common ammunition type.

i think 9mm penetrates too easy although you do have a sizeable list of weapons that can take it. handguns and even rifles.

yea, i know, "i want the ideal handgun that doesnt exist!"

what do you guys suggest?

 

[DammitBoy]

.45 acp

It's slow, it has sufficient mass for stopping power, it's a common round, plenty of platforms for it, including carbines, revolvers, semi-auto, smg's, etc.

You can also buy rounds that frag pretty well so they won't over-penetrate walls.

It is the ideal round and anybody who says different is a slack-jawed commie homo (not that there is anything wrong with that).

 

[TheGM]

.
It is the ideal round and anybody who says different is a slack-jawed commie homo (not that there is anything wrong with that).

Ran into one of them the other day. Standard "it lacks teh velocities to be good" wikipedia knight nonsense.

 

[Idiotfool]

so i was thinking of buying a handgun.

i want something larger than a .22

but i would also want something that if all hell broke loose, i could fire it say indoors without it going through 3-4 walls.

and has a relatively common ammunition type.

i think 9mm penetrates too easy although you do have a sizeable list of weapons that can take it. handguns and even rifles.

yea, i know, "i want the ideal handgun that doesnt exist!"

what do you guys suggest?

Although the 45 has better ballistics, when speaking of momentum, it may not be the best round for your first handgun. Despite your comments, I would say a 9 mm would be good. Magazines typically hold more rounds than what you will find with 45s, and recoil is much less. You will be able to shoot more and may enjoy it more because of these factors. Just as DB said, you can get fragmenting rounds that can penatrate soft tissue, but not through your hole house.

9mm also costs less to shoot. That said, I really like the feel of a classic 1911 in .45, I just suck with it.

 

[DammitBoy]

My .45 holds 14 rounds +1

Just sayin'...

 

[Wintermind]

If you're not going to be carrying it or intending to use it for home defense, but a .22

It's the best caliber for learning the basics of shooting and shit.

If you do want to defend your home, faster things tend to penetrate dry wall the worst.

.223 is pretty shitty at penetrating multiple layers, but pretty much any thing will go through a couple of layers of drywall.

 

[DammitBoy]

 

[SuAside]

I'd say just get a 9x19mm with quality expanding ammo. And if you're really troubled about the dry wall thing, you could look into glaser safety slugs etc.

9x19mm is cheaper to train with, and more training means better shot placement.

I'd agree that a .45ACP is likely better for the scenario, but a lot of .45ACPs have the tendency to punish the shooter for small mistakes far more than a 9x19. I guess it's due to the fact the bullet doesn't leave the barrel quite as quickly? I don't really know.

If you're not going to be carrying it or intending to use it for home defense, but a .22

American180?

 

[Wintermind]

.

If you're not going to be carrying it or intending to use it for home defense, but a .22

American180?

??? I don't follow.

Really, any bullet will kill people if you place it properly. "Stopping power" is by and large an utter myth, shot placement is what counts.