The Guns and Ammo Thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Kalessin, May 4, 2006.

  1. Wintermind

    Wintermind Vault Senior Citizen

    Jan 21, 2011
    ??? I don't follow.

    Really, any bullet will kill people if you place it properly. "Stopping power" is by and large an utter myth, shot placement is what counts.
  2. Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude

    Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Jul 9, 2004
  3. Bal-Sagoth

    Bal-Sagoth Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Nov 1, 2008
    Because I have no interest in partaking in the one million+ back-order hysteria of the PMAG ordeal, I managed to snag five of these Canadian Thermold Magazines.

    So far I like them a good bit. They hold 30 rounds and with a lever you press in can expand down to hold 45. I am just keeping 30 in the ones I have loaded, but expanded to 45 to keep spring pressure at a minimum.
  4. DammitBoy

    DammitBoy Carbon Dated and Proud

    Feb 23, 2006
    Ummmm, there is no myth involved, it's basic physics and biology. If I shoot you center of mass with a .22 caliber bullet there is a huge difference than if I shoot you center of mass with a .45 acp round.

    Besides your body reacting differently to the impact of the larger slower round with systemic shock, the damage the much larger round does with the much bigger wound channel is in fact what stopping power is all about.

    Shot placement is vitally important, but you can't ignore the kinetic energy a larger slower round does compared to a faster smaller round.

    You need to understand the four basic terms defining how bullets work.

    1) Penetration is the amount of tissue—bone, fat, and muscle—that a bullet passes through.

    2) The permanent cavity is the amount of empty space—the hole—left in the body behind the bullet.

    3) The temporary cavity is the momentary expansion of the permanent cavity stretching as the bullet’s kinetic energy is transferred to it.

    4) Fragmentation is the separation of the bullet into smaller chunks, or pieces, which leave the permanent cavity and spin off in different directions.

    Bigger slower bullets will do more of this kind of damage better than a smaller faster bullet. It's the difference of being hit by a bicycle going 40mph and being hit by a mack truck going 25mph.


    As to shot placement:

    * edited to add a picture

    gun show last weekend - 4000 people attended per day
  5. TheWesDude

    TheWesDude Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Feb 25, 2005
    yea, hampton had one recently and the guy from work who went said it was absolutely insane and they had to regulate people going in because they had to stay under the building limits.
  6. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan

    May 27, 2004
    The American180 was a full auto carbine initially designed for use in prisons. It shoots from a bigass magazine of .22LR at a high rate of fire.

    The idea was to have an effective weapon to use against prisoners, yet that if the weapon would fall into the hands of prisoners during a riot, it would not be able to penetrate bullet proof vests of riot suppression forces & SWAT.

    The thing is that they found out that the .22LR would actually chip away at the bulletproof vests & quite quickly chew through them. So the weapon was not really useful for the proposed task.

    Anyway, every time someone says .22LR is not suitable for self-defense, it reminder me of the American180 (as a joke).

    Also, a .22LR is still better than a .25ACP, which was actually used for decades as a self-defense round. It's still better than nothing.
  7. WillisPDunlevey

    WillisPDunlevey Mildly Dipped

    Feb 2, 2010
    You can buy semi auto American 180s with 180, 275 and 325rd mags (or something like that) Several companies have had ownership of the manufacturing rights and have made a number of versions of the magazines in metal and plastic over the last 40 years
  8. DammitBoy

    DammitBoy Carbon Dated and Proud

    Feb 23, 2006
  9. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan

    May 27, 2004
    Belgistan now has a mag cap restriction of 40 rounds on rimfire semi-autos. So kinda spoils the American 180.
  10. DammitBoy

    DammitBoy Carbon Dated and Proud

    Feb 23, 2006
    Passed on 6 magpul 30 round .223/5.56 magazines today for 29.95 each. I can't get past the idea I was paying 13.00 each, one month ago...
  11. Bal-Sagoth

    Bal-Sagoth Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Nov 1, 2008
    I sold my Daniel Defense M4 V5 and magazines for $3,000 cash. I figured I would cash in on the panic buying while I could. Rolling the dice and gambling that a ban does not happen. If all works out I will probably put a back order in to Lawmens for a KAC SR-15 and get it in 9 months lol.

    Oh well, it is not like I was shooting the thing right now anyways, busy with school and I refuse to pay the asinine prices that .223 is going for at the moment. Going to Columbia Friday to wave my Gadsden flag around like a good ole hill billy while my states senator speaks about it all.
  12. TheWesDude

    TheWesDude Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Feb 25, 2005
    yea, there are lots of pictures floating around on the interwebz of gun stores putting up signs.

    they go along the lines of "our thanks to our salesman of the month"

    and credit people like:
    sen feinstein
    piers morgan


    i think those signs are funny, and extremely true. they are hyping this stuff which scares people into thinking they are going to ban or limit these things.

    so what do people do? go on a buying frenzy.

    lots of people i hear from all say its a sellers market right now due to this and prices are skyrocketing. not only for the guns themselves, but for the ammo too.
  13. Tagaziel

    Tagaziel Panzerkatze Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Dec 10, 2003
    As the thread took on a life of its own, I took the liberty of modifying the title.
  14. WillisPDunlevey

    WillisPDunlevey Mildly Dipped

    Feb 2, 2010
    I had three parts kits left... so I will end up with three of these:

    here is progress on the first one-

    Its a semi auto sten. 16" Barrel, full ventilated shroud. Trigger group is from a Czech Vz-52 rifle. Modified bolt has an AR-15 firing pin.
    It feeds from the bottom and ejects straight out the top.

  15. donperkan

    donperkan Vault Dweller

    Aug 4, 2011
    Is this legal?
  16. WillisPDunlevey

    WillisPDunlevey Mildly Dipped

    Feb 2, 2010
    Yes it is perfectly legal.

    1. 16" legal length barrel. (Stens have much shorter barrel)
    2. New USA made receiver. (new receiver reduced inner diameter.. Full auto bolt wont fit)
    3. CZ-52 trigger group with hammer, trigger, sear. (Full Auto Sten only has a trigger and sear... since it fires from open bolt
    4. AR-15 firing Pin- floating firing pin for hammer to strike
    5. reduced outer diameter semi auto bolt. (Full Auto bolt has a fixed firing pin on the bolt face and a FA bolt wont fit in this receiver)
    if you look at the pic above the sten, the bolt on the left is original. The bolt on the right is a modified bolt with a firing pin channel added.

    This rifle is similar to my Micro Sten pistol (see several pages back)

    I chose a vertical feed configuration because I dont like all the weight on the left side.

    I chose the long ventilated shroud to hide the full length barrel. I did not want to go through the hassle for a short barreled rifle (fed tax stamp etc). I had several options:

    short original barrel with a long smothbore extension welded on (yuck)

    Long barrel + shroud or no shroud + ventilated holes or solid.

    The vent holes will reduce weight as well.
  17. mobucks

    mobucks As a goof Orderite

    May 22, 2010
    Whats the shroud for? Heat dissipation? Is it like a radiator? Why do some guns have it and some not? Pros/Cons?
  18. WillisPDunlevey

    WillisPDunlevey Mildly Dipped

    Feb 2, 2010
    On that particular sten, the shroud serves two purposes:

    1. It hides the long barrel. Without it, it would look like something an anteater would design. On a real sten, the shroud/receiver would end around the third cooling hole in front of the mag well. From there forward, the barrel would be hanging out in space (12" inches or so, which is ok on a hunting rifle, but would look weird on a sten)

    2. It does offer heat protection for your hands. Since there are no wooden forearms for this weapon, the shroud keeps you from touching the barrel. The shroud does not act like a radiator, it just keeps you from touching the hot barrel. The shroud does not have to have holes, but I like them as they save weight, and look pretty cool. Some semi auto stens have the shroud modified to look like an integral suppressor (Like on a suppressed sterling). Its not silenced even one bit, but it is a way to hide the long barrel.

    it is pretty heavy though.

    This is my 3rd "fallout" inspired gun.
  19. DammitBoy

    DammitBoy Carbon Dated and Proud

    Feb 23, 2006
    The reason it was called the "gun owners/appreciation thread" was to keep the anti-gun tools out of here and making it against the house rules to bring that kind of crap to this thread.

    Changing the thread title seems arbitrary and pointless.
  20. TheWesDude

    TheWesDude Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Feb 25, 2005
    well, there isnt a whole lot of discussion about ammo from what i have seen.

    what do you guys think about modern glocks and desert eagle handguns?

    i remember a while ago that desert eagles were considered to be extremely high quality, even better than glock handguns which have generally been considered the "standard" and their 9mm the staple.

    i have never been a fan of 9mm because while the glock 9mm looks beautiful in a form/function marriage of design, which is actually the more sturdy handgun maker nowadays?

    is the glock still the standard, or are desert eagles still the higher quality gun?