The Guns and Ammo Thread

[JohnnyEgo]

Finally got my garage floor cleaned, so it must be picture time:

I've always wanted a bullpup gun, but I could never find the one that was just right.

• The Bushmaster varient just sucked.
• The FN P90 looked great, but I hated the limited ammo availability.
• The FN 2000 had the right caliber, but was the size and shape of a tuna.
• The Aug was a great gun with the right ergonomics and the right caliber, but looked too Bond-villianesque.

Then along came this fine young thing...

Not excessively bloated, not smoothed like a photoshopped supermodel. Takes my AR mags.
Things looked promising...

I had an EOTech 553 that I couldn't sell because the market and I did not agree on it's value. Turns out, it was just waiting for the right host.

Took her to the range and sighted her in at the 50. It was different than an AR, but not terrible in most respects. People complain about the noise compared to an AR. I don't think it's any louder, you simply have your face directly over the receiver and the muzzle closer to your face.

What is truly terrible is the trigger. 11 lbs from the factory. I've been spoiled by two stage triggers with short uptake and crisp break on nearly all my ARs. This one has a lot of travel and feels almost like my double action 686. Did not like.
So I grit my teeth and pulled out the wallet for a new sear pack:

Pop two pins, then out with the old, in with the new.

Still a lot of travel compared to an AR trigger, but it does have a long way to push that transfer bar. Break is now around 5 lbs, which is tolerable.


Now to address the loudness thing:

Much quieter.

I like this gun a lot, particularly with the new sear pack fixing the trigger problems. It handles very well, and mag changes are very fast once you get used to the motion. Very comfortable to stand with, as the center of gravity is shifted closer in and the bulk of the weight is supported by your shoulder. It is very fast to move with, and about as compact as my 10.5" AR15, without requiring a tax stamp and with a six inch longer barrel.

However, I do not see it selling like hotcakes in this country. It is nearly twice the cost of a conventional AR15 without factoring in the very expensive sear pack. Had I realized the full cost I was going to pay to get it where I wanted it to be, I would have bought a very different rifle - a rifle chassis MRP - and still had money left over for an optic.
On the other hand, I would not have the blaster from 'Aliens', and the amusement I get from owning a 'space gun'.

 

[Deleted member 53669]

Joe Rogan and Hickok45 merge

 

[SuAside]

5.7x28mm ammo availability is really not all that bad, and prices have also come down. Though I guess it might be different in your area.

As for the Tavor, you don't see the olive ones a lot. Do you intend to get the 9x19mm conversion kit too?

 

[JohnnyEgo]

I'm on the fence about the conversion kit. IWI lists them for $899, but they can be found for around the $750 mark. That's still quite a chunk of change. I could buy a myriad of 9mm handguns for that price, or build a 9mm AR for about the same sans optic. It also doesn't look very conversion friendly. I can slap a dedicated 9mm upper and a mag block in nearly any one of my AR15 lowers and be in business with no tools. Similarly, I can swap in a 9mm barrel, bolt, and mag block in my LMT MRP with nothing but a torque wrench, and still be way under the $750 price mark. I think it would be cool to have the capacity, I just don't know if I'd ever use it.

It's funny you say that about the OD Tavor. I would have thought they would have been everywhere on the market right now, but I had a heck of a time getting one domestically. At one point, one of my local shops called to tell me they got one, only to find on arrival that it was FDE instead of OD. Wouldn't have thought them to be that popular.

Because I live in hotels 240+ days a year, I have accumulated an impressive amount of reward points, which I plan to redeem for gift certificates to Cabelas, a large camping and outdoors chain in the US. They have a decent selection of firearms, and I'll have about $1600 to spend. Currently on the consideration list are the new Sig 227, a Browning Hi Power, or a Dan Wesson VBOB 1911. Cabelas mostly caters to the mainstream market, so their selection is predominantly mass-market based. However, they do occasionally have guns from Ed Brown, and I have always wanted an Ed Brown Special Forces. I'd have to throw another $1500 or so on top of the gift cards, but it would fulfill a longtime goal.

I'm about at the end of my firearm budget for this year, but I might also be willing to make an exception for a Nighthawk Heine 6" 10mm if I find one sitting on the shelves somewhere. My boy seems pretty smart, so perhaps he'll get a scholarship and wouldn't have needed a college fund anyways...

 

[UniversalWolf]

Nice to hear about your experiences with the Tavor, JohnnyEgo. That's a weapon that has interested me from afar for a long time.

 

[Deleted member 53669]

I now work at a sporting goods store behind the gun-counter with an employee discount.

Expect updates.

 

[Deleted member 53669]

Bump.

Anyone here do anything long-range?

 

[JohnnyEgo]

Got about a week of downtime, which has given me the opportunity to do some shooting and pick up a few odds and ends, some of which I have been waiting quite a while for. This Surefire can is one of them. Picked it up yesterday after only a year and some change of waiting. My local shop never bothered to tell me that they had received the transfer paperwork, so it sat for six months doing nothing. Submitted the Form 4 for it, and the dealer flubbed their own address, so the approved form got returned to the ATF, who were at least kind enough to call me and get a corrected mailing address. I got this one on a very good price, otherwise I would not have gone with tan. I had planned to hit it with some matte black barbeque paint, and I probably still will, but for now, I plan to shoot it as is.

 

[SuAside]

I wish we could legally own suppressors here. Virtually all my guns would have one.

I went a little crazy a year or so ago and ordered the gun below:

It's a lefty AI AT308 (hence why I had to wait a year), with 20" barrel, Steiner M5Xi 5-25x56mm MSR & Third Eye Tactical / Tier-One Unimount with bubble level.
The bipod will be a Roedale RH50F T/R. I'm also going to slap on the thumbhole stock conversion.

Obviously a quick mock up. The scope isn't screwed down and the triipod is just something to keep it upright.

 

[JohnnyEgo]

That is absolutely beautiful, SuA. I'm partial to the Schmidt & Bender PMII, but a bunch of the cool kids are now running the Steiner M5Xi and are very happy with it. I put some serious thought into one earlier this year when I was going to build up an FN SPR, before I decided I have enough .308 bolt guns I don't shoot often already. My AIAW is the older 1.5 Chassis with thumb hole stock, and I look at the new stocks with envy some times. I know a lot of folks who converted their 1.5 to the Viper Skins, and now that AI puts out their own pistol grip skins, I've thought pretty hard about converting. I don't often run into limitations with the thumbhole stock, but every now and then on improvised prone or seated, I find myself at an uncomfortable angle with the rear of the thumbhole rubbing up on my wrist.

Anyways, you have fantastic taste.

I've got a project going in sort of the opposite direction to yours. I've had a cheap, basic model Ruger 10/22 for years, because everyone in my country who shoots regularly seems to have a moral obligation to own one. I am not a big fan of .22LR in general, and I rarely shoot my .22 rifles, but I had the opportunity to pick up a Gemtech Mist for pretty cheap. Thought it would make a nice companion to my suppressed 77/44. Haven't decided on optics yet. My default for this sort of thing is a Leupold VXII Rimfire, usually the 1-4 version. However, a lot of folks say a lot of nice things about the Vortex Diamondback Rimfire, and it's priced comparable to the Leupold. Might try it out.

I've fired for function with CCI Mini Mag, and things worked just fine, but it wasn't very quiet. I'll run through my random assortment of subsonic .22LR until I find something that can cycle reliably. Even the mini-mag, which is the good stuff, left the barrel and baffles quite dirty.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Eeeww, why do some of you love so many ugly gunz. It seems that only Sua has ... some taste

To be more serious. I am not really a gun nut, definetly not on the level like some here, but I really want to share this with you, since it's awesome - learned so much from him!

[video]https://www.youtube.com/user/ForgottenWeapons[/video]

Some really quirky designs, some forgotten but many cool ones! And they try to take a look at their mechanics when ever possible. I can only recommend this chanel!

 

[Hassknecht]

I love Forgotten Weapons. Almost came late to work today because I noticed he finished his Pancor Jackhammer video.
Which is an excellent video, btw., probably the most informative piece on the Jackhammer on the Interwebs.

 

[SuAside]

That is absolutely beautiful, SuA. I'm partial to the Schmidt & Bender PMII, but a bunch of the cool kids are now running the Steiner M5Xi and are very happy with it.

I really am not in the "in crowd", so I wouldn't know what the cool kids are using.

But the Steiner seemed to push all the right buttons. I was initially going to go with NightForce, but the scope I was going to buy was discontinued the day I ordered the rifle.

So far, I'm very impressed with the scope. I hope it'll continue to impress me. It's almost insane that PrecisionRifleBlog lists it as #13 in their test: http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/09/19/tactical-scopes-field-test-results-summary/
If such a scope if #13 I'm guessing the other scopes come with ballistic computers and espresso machines built into them.

I looked at S&B, but it's my impression that their illumination turret might interfere with my lefty bolt. I have no rifle, nor scope to quickly test this with, so I didn't want to risk it.

My AIAW is the older 1.5 Chassis with thumb hole stock, and I look at the new stocks with envy some times. I know a lot of folks who converted their 1.5 to the Viper Skins, and now that AI puts out their own pistol grip skins, I've thought pretty hard about converting. I don't often run into limitations with the thumbhole stock, but every now and then on improvised prone or seated, I find myself at an uncomfortable angle with the rear of the thumbhole rubbing up on my wrist.

I'm actually going to do the thumbhole stock conversion this week. Will use it until I run into any issues with it & then I can convert back. It's just the rear of the pistol grip and two sides on the folding stock that need to be swapped. It's a 5 minute job.

Anyways, you have fantastic taste.

Thanks.
I'm still in awe of your own collection.

Things that I might consider in the coming years:

• SBS Ithaca 37 with wooden stock & pump, with barrel cut down to the length of the 4/5 shot tube. Like this one.
• Taking an Anschutz left handed Fortner action from a biathlon rifle and dropping it into a stock suited to my tastes.
• HK Mk23. I don't dig the (movie, videogame,...)-hype, nor can I suppress it, but it was the first .45ACP I have shot in my life and something just clicked in my head back then. I'm going to try to find someone who has one and shoot it. If I still feel the same, I'll buy it.
• Polish MSBS if it doesn't suck at release? Seems like everything the ACR should've been...
• SMG form factor gun. Maybe a Sig MPx when it's entirely fixed?
• HK53 with ambi navy-style lower. First real SWAT carbine. HK slap. Tiny & counts as SMG sized imo. I don't even like roller locked guns, but this one gives me a boner.
• Custom AR15 or JP22? Baby's first Barbie gun.
• Semi-auto PKM. Just cuz. Legally allowed, but will likely require an uphill battle to get.

I am not a big fan of .22LR in general, and I rarely shoot my .22 rifles, but I had the opportunity to pick up a Gemtech Mist for pretty cheap.

My appreciation of .22LRs is actually growing slowly over the past few years. Before, I saw it mostly as a training tool, but over time I've become real fond of shooting (high quality) .22LRs like our Beretta 87 Target.
I absolutely loathe things like a Walther P22 or Sig Mosquito though.

I'm no fan of the 10/22, but there's a lot of things to do with it that surely make it a pretty damn great gun.
If I'd go for a semi-auto .22LR, I'd probably look at nordic or a JP-22.

I've fired for function with CCI Mini Mag, and things worked just fine, but it wasn't very quiet. I'll run through my random assortment of subsonic .22LR until I find something that can cycle reliably. Even the mini-mag, which is the good stuff, left the barrel and baffles quite dirty.

Well, if there's one thing you can expect from a .22LR, it's probably that it'll run pretty damn dirty. Even worse when suppressed.

As for the noise, I guess the sonic crack of the mini-mag and the higher than normal amount of pressure/gas plays a big role in how effective your teeny tiny suppressor is.

To be more serious. I am not really a gun nut, definetly not on the level like some here, but I really want to share this with you, since it's awesome - learned so much from him!

[video]https://www.youtube.com/user/ForgottenWeapons[/video]

Ian is a great guy. It's very rare that you can catch him (accidentally) spreading misinformation, which is really commendable since a lot of the "firearms truths" that you'll find out there are actually opinions and dogmas.

If you like his stuff, you will also enjoy the info, pics and diagrams that you can find on: http://candrsenal.com/

 

[JohnnyEgo]

You will have to let us know how she shoots when you get her out!

I just joined a local range that has steel plate at 100 yard intervals from 400 - 1000 yards. Did it for a couple reasons. One is that I don't shoot my distance guns near often enough. Another is that a thousand yards is a long distance to walk with steel plates, and the third is that I got tired of taking fire at the public spaces I can shoot at from idiots who set up perpendicular to me and overshoot the low hill they use as their 'backstop'. At any rate, I plan on getting out with my AI and my Mk 11 at least once or twice before it gets too cold here.

This probably isn't the most exciting of things, but my wife bought me a new set of stacking tool boxes for Father's Day. They aren't water tight, but they do have an o-ring seal and some pretty stout latches, and they have done an excellent job of keeping all the prairie dust out. They also interlock and are pretty portable. I liked them so much I bought a couple more of the very top box for assorted purposes. They make it a lot easier to haul all my crap to the range:

This particular box I use for ammo, magazines, and odds & ends. I have another of the same make that I keep my field spares and travel maintenance gear in for training classes and competition. Bought yet another which I plan to cut for some specific holsters and belts, but I haven't gotten around to it, so right now it's just crammed full of holsters. I like the form factor of this box very much.

Middle box contains targets, field bags, cheap binoculars, my Leica range finder, and a mid-range spotting scope. I had my stapler in here, but in practice, I found it more practical to put in the lower box with the stuff I cart down-range.

Bottom box is mostly plates and stuff I want right away when I get to the range. I also shove my target stands and uprights into it to wheel everything down-range.

Makes packing the truck a little more efficient. I could probably squeeze a half-dozen more gun cases in there.

Makes a nice improvised table.

100 yard sight-in range.

If you look way in the back, just to the left of the two white silohuette targets on the right side of the berm, you can see my 12" steel target gong. Able to rock it all day long standing with the Tavor and my shorty AR at a rapid pace and no magnification with next to no effort. However, even seated and bagged, I could only hit it once every 4-5 rounds with the 77/44. It was throwing wildly to the right despite minimal cross-wind. The scope and mount seemed tight in the field, but I ran out of ammo and patience before I pinned down the problem. Will give it a good cleaning and take it to an indoor 100yd range where wind and elevation aren't a factor.

 

[SuAside]

I just joined a local range that has steel plate at 100 yard intervals from 400 - 1000 yards.

Super jealous of that. For that kind of range, I'd need to go to the UK, Switzerland or Germany.

And yeah, I wouldn't mind spending some money to go to a nice private range in the US to have better accomodation and less dangerous retards.

This probably isn't the most exciting of things, but my wife bought me a new set of stacking tool boxes for Father's Day. They aren't water tight, but they do have an o-ring seal and some pretty stout latches, and they have done an excellent job of keeping all the prairie dust out. They also interlock and are pretty portable. I liked them so much I bought a couple more of the very top box for assorted purposes.

Looks solid. But you do seem to haul a lot of crap to the range with you. Do you actually need all that?

I've been looking at the Pelican Hardigg Storm iM3100 case for my AI. It seems to be the only decent case I can find that would fit the AI AT with stock folded without being extra long.
Still need to figure out if I'm going to cut the foam myself or have it fitted.

 

[JohnnyEgo]

The iM3100 is an awesome case. It's a little taller than the 1700 series Pelicans I generally use, but otherwise, every bit as stout. They also make a fitted soft case for it that is very nice if you don't want to do foam or want the flexibility.
If you aren't going to change the configuration around very much, I'd pay the few extra bucks to have the foam insert laser-cut. There are a ton of places that do it stateside, and most of them already have the patterns for the AI and any number of scope sizes and accessories. Since it is just foam, I can't imagine it would be ITAR restricted if you couldn't source something in Europe. I've cut my fair share of foam with serrated knives and hot wire, but I think the laser cut just looks a lot cleaner.

I am an over-preparer by nature. Most of the places I shoot are an hour from nowhere in all directions, so if I don't have something I need with me, I am not going to have it. Consequently, I bring everything necessary to set up whatever I am going to do for the day, be it prone, table based, or standing. Also food, a pop-up tarp for sun protection, a first aid kit, and toilet paper. No half measures. The Ridgid boxes enable this tendency by keeping everything together and stackable. I probably have issues.

 

[Crni Vuk]

And yeah, I wouldn't mind spending some money to go to a nice private range in the US to have better accomodation and less dangerous retards.

Hey, If you're looking for a cheap stay I could offer you a nice comfy couch. However I have no clue how the laws are with weapons and such, I guess they are a bit more strict than in Belgium

 

[SuAside]

The iM3100 is an awesome case. It's a little taller than the 1700 series Pelicans I generally use, but otherwise, every bit as stout. They also make a fitted soft case for it that is very nice if you don't want to do foam or want the flexibility.

It needs to be a rather deep/thick case, since I want to transport it with the stock folded. That way it becomes quite a bit shorter.

If you aren't going to change the configuration around very much, I'd pay the few extra bucks to have the foam insert laser-cut. There are a ton of places that do it stateside, and most of them already have the patterns for the AI and any number of scope sizes and accessories. Since it is just foam, I can't imagine it would be ITAR restricted if you couldn't source something in Europe. I've cut my fair share of foam with serrated knives and hot wire, but I think the laser cut just looks a lot cleaner.

I've got decent contacts with a guy that sells custom foam stuff and I don't intend to change the configuration around much. I'll see what he says is best.

If I do change it, I can always have more generic foam cut, of course. It's not cheap, but surely not -that- expensive when you realize how much money it's protecting.

I am an over-preparer by nature. Most of the places I shoot are an hour from nowhere in all directions, so if I don't have something I need with me, I am not going to have it. Consequently, I bring everything necessary to set up whatever I am going to do for the day, be it prone, table based, or standing. Also food, a pop-up tarp for sun protection, a first aid kit, and toilet paper. No half measures. The Ridgid boxes enable this tendency by keeping everything together and stackable. I probably have issues.

Well, if I was shooting out in bumfuck nowhere, I might do exactly the same thing. But here shooting ranges tend to come with shops and cafetarias.

And yeah, I wouldn't mind spending some money to go to a nice private range in the US to have better accomodation and less dangerous retards.

Hey, If you're looking for a cheap stay I could offer you a nice comfy couch. However I have no clue how the laws are with weapons and such, I guess they are a bit more strict than in Belgium

Ranges here are perfectly safe and well regulated. Only problem is that we can't shoot real long distances. It's a shame, but that's what you get when you live in an neverending urban environment.

You're always welcome to come shooting here, though.

 

[Crni Vuk]

I will consider that offer when I have a more stable financial situation! With my serbian herritage we are natural born killers

 

[SuAside]

I will consider that offer when I have a more stable financial situation! With my serbian herritage we are natural born killers

Well, just remember that the only type of killing you'll be doing here is putting holes in paper and cardboard!