I really dislike compact & subcompact 1911s. It's just not right. 
The Guns and Ammo Thread
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SuAside said:I really dislike compact & subcompact 1911s. It's just not right.
What's wrong with 13 rounds of .45 goodness out of a compact concealable frame?
It shoots as smooth as butter, recoil is easily managable, and accuracy is fine for it's intended purpose. This isn't a pistol you'll be using for 50 metre target practice.
Wintermind
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DammitBoy said:SuAside said:I really dislike compact & subcompact 1911s. It's just not right.
What's wrong with 13 rounds of .45 goodness out of a compact concealable frame?
It shoots as smooth as butter, recoil is easily managable, and accuracy is fine for it's intended purpose. This isn't a pistol you'll be using for 50 metre target practice.
Because it's not right, that's why. A proper M1911 should be single stack, normal sized. They're not like glocks where they look more and more adorable as they get smaller.
The grip's shape is vastly different though. Doesn't feel right, even if they're close.DammitBoy said:
Also, my pref is purely personal ofc.
btw those subcompact 1911s tend to be a lot less reliable than fullsized. Harder to get it 'right'. How's yours?
SuAside said:
Yes, the grip is wider and more rectangular - I find the grip great for man-sized hands. Young boys and women probably find the smaller version more comfortable.
SuAside said:
Now, now Su - you wouldn't be trying to troll me into asking you yet again on what basis you claim this expert knowledge of subcompact 1911's, would you?
because it looked like you were posting a fact, instead of an opinion based on what you have read...From my personal experience, I've owned three and never had a single issue of being "unreliable" or "hard to get right". They all performed as advertised. Including my Llama minimax which plenty of "internet experts" claim is a horrible firearm. Mine ran like a sewing machine.
I've shot a half dozen owned by friends of various brands - never a hiccup. In fact, all my friends love theirs, whether they were kimbers, paras, springfield armory, or what not.
The Para Warthog, based on my own experience, is a frikken swiss clock of dependibility. I've put 500 rounds thru mine so far - it goes bang everytime I pull the booger switch.
Not claiming expert knowledge, you douche. Making an observation about how all subcompact 1911s I've seen around me are shit when it comes to reliability and asking if this claim is warranted or baseless.
SuAside said:
That is a very hurtful thing to say, especially since I was joking - hence the use of the winking emoticon. Lighten up buddy, you might strain something. Do I need to put (jk) next to sentences where I'm just teasing you, to protect your delicate sensibilities?
(jk)SuAside said:
Wait, you lost me there.
Let me ask you a question or two to figure out what you're saying.If your observation is based on what you've "seen" - why would you ask me if your observation is warranted or baseless? That doesn't make sense, does it?
Which subcompacts have you seen, in person, that were "shit when it comes to reliability"? How were they unreliable? Are we talking about jams that might have been caused from lack of cleaning?
If you saw multiple occasions of unreliable function from shitty subcompacts, who am I to refute your observation and based on what?
It could be a bad gun, it could be poor cleaning habits, it could be crap ammo, or poor reloading practices - it could be all sorts of things. You'll have to be more specific.
From my personal experience and from seeing the guys I know shoot theirs, I have a different opinion of 1911 subcompacts.
No offence, but i think any compact pistol in .45 is just wrong.
Make it manly and american and full sized. Like those big muscles u have DB, i just dont get how you can be a beefcake and carry a compact .45.... Unless you have a concealed carry permit that is. In which case you get a pass.
Make it manly and american and full sized. Like those big muscles u have DB, i just dont get how you can be a beefcake and carry a compact .45.... Unless you have a concealed carry permit that is. In which case you get a pass.
mobucks said:
Beefcake?
and besides my muscles are not all that big.The only reason to carry a subcompact is for concealed carry and yes I have my CCL.
"Right - wrong, I'm the guy with the gun" ~ Ash
The only problem I ever had with any subcompact 1911 was the fact that they only carried 5-6 rounds.
The Warthogs 13 rounds solves that issue...
I'm not a huge Glock fan, myself. Got a single stack Colt Delta Elite in 10mm on order.
This is actually my backwoods gun. It's reliable, low maintenance, and I don't really care if it gets wet or dirty. I moved to the foothills of Colorado, where in addition to the usual two legged predators, I face a variety of four legged threats, including feral hogs, rutting deer, and black bears. They have a much denser skeletal structure and more muscle mass shielding vital organs, so you need something with considerably more penetration then 9mm or .45. 10mm is somewhat obscure, but 200gr of lead hard cast moving at 1100 fps will give you penetration and trauma that are unmatched in any other auto pistol.
When I'm not in an area where I am likely to encounter any animal threats, I stick to .45 or 9mm, where over penetration is much less of a problem and recoil is a lot softer.
This is actually my backwoods gun. It's reliable, low maintenance, and I don't really care if it gets wet or dirty. I moved to the foothills of Colorado, where in addition to the usual two legged predators, I face a variety of four legged threats, including feral hogs, rutting deer, and black bears. They have a much denser skeletal structure and more muscle mass shielding vital organs, so you need something with considerably more penetration then 9mm or .45. 10mm is somewhat obscure, but 200gr of lead hard cast moving at 1100 fps will give you penetration and trauma that are unmatched in any other auto pistol.
When I'm not in an area where I am likely to encounter any animal threats, I stick to .45 or 9mm, where over penetration is much less of a problem and recoil is a lot softer.
D
Deleted member 53669
Guest
What are your guys opinions on the .357SIG vs .40S&W debate?
))<>(( said:
The ballistics are similar enough to make it very difficult to argue performance. Beyond that we have availability and price. I think .40S&W wins out on market saturation which brings down the price.
As for my collection:
Glock 22 .40 cal
Me and my Remington 870
Mosin Nagant M44 carbine
and my newest baby
Tanfoglio/EAA Witness .40 cal
Welcome to the forum, law573.
Your picture of you using your 870 reminds me of something I saw the other day on the range.
Our local corrections department was qualifying new officers to their transport duty, which involved having them shoot a .357, a 9mm, and an 870. They had targets set up at about 5 yards, and were using Estate Game Load to qualify with the 870s. At that distance, the shot spread was of course quite narrow, but the wad was tearing giant holes in the paper. One target was sawed in half in three shots.
When they were wrapping up, I asked their range officer if they normally used bird shot on prisoner transfers. He said no, of course, they usually used some flavor of #00 buck, but it was too expensive to qualify people with. I also asked him if he thought that the effect of the wad on a paper target at that close of a range might set unreasonable expectations. He sort of half nodded and then changed the topic of conversation to my X5.
Your picture of you using your 870 reminds me of something I saw the other day on the range.
Our local corrections department was qualifying new officers to their transport duty, which involved having them shoot a .357, a 9mm, and an 870. They had targets set up at about 5 yards, and were using Estate Game Load to qualify with the 870s. At that distance, the shot spread was of course quite narrow, but the wad was tearing giant holes in the paper. One target was sawed in half in three shots.
When they were wrapping up, I asked their range officer if they normally used bird shot on prisoner transfers. He said no, of course, they usually used some flavor of #00 buck, but it was too expensive to qualify people with. I also asked him if he thought that the effect of the wad on a paper target at that close of a range might set unreasonable expectations. He sort of half nodded and then changed the topic of conversation to my X5.
Observation -> Induction -> Deduction -> Testing -> Evaluation.DammitBoy said:
It's the empiric method.
Since I can't do the deduction and testing myself, I asked you to confirm my hypotheses. Which you shot down.
As for why I said they're unreliable? Because even squeaky clean guns tend to FTE and FTF in those that I've seen.
.357Sig is a gimmick and .40S&W is marginably better than a decent 9x19mm.))<>(( said:
I'm a fan of 9x19mm. Good 9mm will get the job done.
.40S&W's downsides are about equal to the advantages it has over 9x19mm in my eyes.
YMMV
Try stuff with the Flite Control Wad. Seems to work wonders compared to the S&B crap we usually shoot here.law573 said:
D
Deleted member 53669
Guest
SuAside said:
Hmm. Well, I'm looking for a decent self-defense semiauto caliber that doesn't fly too wild and can be considered to have decent people-killing ability.
I know the biggest rule of thumb is shot-placement, but I'm still concerned on the penetration/expansion/fragmentation/wound-cavity ratios.
The caliber I'm looking for it a balance between all, and if you guys ever hunted with pistols I want to know your opinions (Besides .44 + calibers.)
Going by this graph:
I can deduce that the .357 and .40 are the best calibers besides the big ass .45 that I don't want to lug around.
Honestly, for 2 legged predators in a conventional urban environment, anything at or above .38 Spl +P will give you plenty of stopping power. What will make the difference is reliability, capacity, speed of follow up, and of course, aim.
If you don't do a lot of shooting, you may find both .357 Sig and .40 S&W to be a bit 'snappy'. A 9mm with quality self defense loads will do 90% or more of what a .40 will do in terms of damage. It's softer shooting, meaning your follow up rate will likely be quicker. And it's cheap to shoot, meaning you are more likely to practice and thus more likely to hit.
Go with what you feel most comfortable with. I wouldn't want a 9mm against a feral pig, but I'm very comfortable with it against a human aggressor.
If you don't do a lot of shooting, you may find both .357 Sig and .40 S&W to be a bit 'snappy'. A 9mm with quality self defense loads will do 90% or more of what a .40 will do in terms of damage. It's softer shooting, meaning your follow up rate will likely be quicker. And it's cheap to shoot, meaning you are more likely to practice and thus more likely to hit.
Go with what you feel most comfortable with. I wouldn't want a 9mm against a feral pig, but I'm very comfortable with it against a human aggressor.