CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Yes, because gorgeous artwork is something gamers hate.
But seriously, Ghosts of Tsushima is an INCREDIBLY dark story and ends on a super-bleak as well as depressing note.
The Last of Us 2 - Two cowgirls murdering each other's loved ones
- Thread starter CT Phipps
- Start date
Carbon Dated and Proud
Yes, because gorgeous artwork is something gamers hate.
But seriously, Ghosts of Tsushima is an INCREDIBLY dark story and ends on a super-bleak as well as depressing note.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
Welp I just finished the game.
7.5-8/10, give or take. The last 2 Abby episodes flowed better than the first one, altho it did get a bit dragged on by the end, I think they could've done the epilogue with around half the combat encounters, but I get that Ellie has be all fucked up by the end and the frustration with more enemies kinda is how she is feeling at the point as well.
Doesn't really feel like the game is asking you to like Abby, she is basically disliked by even the universe itself, she attempts to redeem herself but nobody buys her as having changed because being a rage murder monster was everythign she built for herself, when you play the Ellie campaign you still feel like she is this cunning final boss that has evaded you and is now waltzing in because she is so powerful and making you pay, when you plaay hers side, she is barely holding together at that point, her faction is basically killing itself in ab otched invaasion, all of her friends got killed in front of her and the only reason she runs to the theater is in a fit of rage, she doesn't even have any of her shit on her. Abby doesn't even learn herself to forgive, she is just trying to get the fuck out of there, she basically only left Dina alive at that point because she didn't want Lev to see her do that. She is kind of a sad loser.
Ellie, doesnt even have a epiphaany of liking her or forgiving her, by the end she wasn't even having a climatic confrontation with big Muscle Woman Abby that killed Joel, just a barely alive, skin and bones woman desperate to save a small boy. She didn't even resemble herself at that point. Ellie even starts resorting to siccing zombies on people which really makes her lashing out about her life having meaning in the cure show her how hollow whatever she is gonna get from pursuing Abby further than the Seattle fiasco is gonna be. She had her happy ending, and she squandered it, and by killing this malnourished woman she wasn't gonna get Joel back, nor was she gonna get what she abandoned back either. Abby probably didn't deserve forgiveness, but Ellie deserved to give herself a better life than just more senseless violence, there was more than enough of that in the world.
Gameplay was pretty good. The perk system tho, while offering more options and rewards than the simple one from the first game, there are still a lot of filler perks, mostly the ones regarding Listening mode, as there comes a point where either the infected don't emit any sound so upgrades to it are pointless, and hearing upgrades isn't that helpful against humaan enemies when they come in large groups as they will be easily spotted and heard as they react to attacks or findign their friends. Actually my hearing upgrades made the last encounter annoying because of the clickers on the cages still showing up as "things that are seeing me" in hearing mode despite being on a different floor. Also, in higher difficulties hearing mode doesn't even exist so they are probably even more pointless in anything above hard.
I can see some sequel hooks, but I think at this point they should just the story end with this one.
The biggest issue with the themes of the narrative is that.... well the violence is really fun. The gore system, the dynamic responses from enemies and the creative set ups of encounters are all too entertaining for me to feel "depressed" about that violence, basically the only violence that is sad is the one in some of the important cutscenes. I would totally play a "challenge map" style thing with it, like the Arkham games had, because the systems are that fun.
7.5-8/10, give or take. The last 2 Abby episodes flowed better than the first one, altho it did get a bit dragged on by the end, I think they could've done the epilogue with around half the combat encounters, but I get that Ellie has be all fucked up by the end and the frustration with more enemies kinda is how she is feeling at the point as well.
Doesn't really feel like the game is asking you to like Abby, she is basically disliked by even the universe itself, she attempts to redeem herself but nobody buys her as having changed because being a rage murder monster was everythign she built for herself, when you play the Ellie campaign you still feel like she is this cunning final boss that has evaded you and is now waltzing in because she is so powerful and making you pay, when you plaay hers side, she is barely holding together at that point, her faction is basically killing itself in ab otched invaasion, all of her friends got killed in front of her and the only reason she runs to the theater is in a fit of rage, she doesn't even have any of her shit on her. Abby doesn't even learn herself to forgive, she is just trying to get the fuck out of there, she basically only left Dina alive at that point because she didn't want Lev to see her do that. She is kind of a sad loser.
Ellie, doesnt even have a epiphaany of liking her or forgiving her, by the end she wasn't even having a climatic confrontation with big Muscle Woman Abby that killed Joel, just a barely alive, skin and bones woman desperate to save a small boy. She didn't even resemble herself at that point. Ellie even starts resorting to siccing zombies on people which really makes her lashing out about her life having meaning in the cure show her how hollow whatever she is gonna get from pursuing Abby further than the Seattle fiasco is gonna be. She had her happy ending, and she squandered it, and by killing this malnourished woman she wasn't gonna get Joel back, nor was she gonna get what she abandoned back either. Abby probably didn't deserve forgiveness, but Ellie deserved to give herself a better life than just more senseless violence, there was more than enough of that in the world.
Gameplay was pretty good. The perk system tho, while offering more options and rewards than the simple one from the first game, there are still a lot of filler perks, mostly the ones regarding Listening mode, as there comes a point where either the infected don't emit any sound so upgrades to it are pointless, and hearing upgrades isn't that helpful against humaan enemies when they come in large groups as they will be easily spotted and heard as they react to attacks or findign their friends. Actually my hearing upgrades made the last encounter annoying because of the clickers on the cages still showing up as "things that are seeing me" in hearing mode despite being on a different floor. Also, in higher difficulties hearing mode doesn't even exist so they are probably even more pointless in anything above hard.
I can see some sequel hooks, but I think at this point they should just the story end with this one.
The biggest issue with the themes of the narrative is that.... well the violence is really fun. The gore system, the dynamic responses from enemies and the creative set ups of encounters are all too entertaining for me to feel "depressed" about that violence, basically the only violence that is sad is the one in some of the important cutscenes. I would totally play a "challenge map" style thing with it, like the Arkham games had, because the systems are that fun.
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Aurelius Of Phoenix
Psued.
I'm pretty sure they have a mode that lets you do that but I'm not sure.
RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
The difference is, Ghost of Tsusmia wasn't condescending and pompous nor did it have some type of political message it was trying to shove down your throat. The game didn't tell you that you were a bad person as it forced you to make some choice you didn't want to make. It was a bittersweet game but not misery porn. Plus, unlike Ellie, Jin's fight wasn't for nothing. He was able to see his goal to the end and save his people. Ellie gave up so Neil can shove his "Revenge and violence is bad" message at the end.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
I don't think so? I think they will only add a Multiplayer mode later on and I am looking more for PVE stuff, specially because I don't pay for PS+
RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
Think they will release a multiplayer mode in a DLC in the future? What what I heard the multiplayer mode for the first TLoU was popular. Don't know why they didn't add it for the second one.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
Tacked on Multi Player modes were more of a staple back in 2013, when the industry was convinced single player campaigns were obsolete and not appealing.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Serious question: What political message?
Not arguing with the rest, just curious, as TLOU2 seems pretty apoltical. Its not Bioshock or Deus Ex.
Atomic Postman
Vault Archives Overseer
Yeah. There was a message about revenge but not sure what's meant to be a political message.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
Also Last of Us 2 didn't try to tell the player they were a bad person. It wasn't Bioshock Infinite. It wasn't really that meta textual either. Also pompous? I don't think it was pompous, the game is pretty sympathetic to Ellie even as the point of the narrative was how she was destroying herself with the whole revenge mission. It's not a perfect story but I don't see where the "pompous" part comes in. The most "political", as the internet understands it, it gets is that there are LGBT characters in it.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Ellie isn't the player either. Which is why it's not 'chiding' you like Spec Ops: The Line. It's Ellie and Abby on a mission of vengeance.
RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
If you want to know my problems with TLoU2 it is basically this:
By the way, the guy who made this likes Fallout 3, just to give some perspective.
By the way, the guy who made this likes Fallout 3, just to give some perspective.
Atomic Postman
Vault Archives Overseer
Content of the video aside and totally random but I don't think there is a more repulsive group on the internet than Brits making opinionated youtube videos. I say this as a half-brit myself.
RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
I think the biggest problem I have is Neil arrogant attitude and how he is calling everyone who dislikes his work of fart a bigot. I mean, its one thing for him to say; "I am getting tired of /v/ calling me a cuck in every post." Which, fair enough. But attacking critics by calling them bigots and DMCA'ing memes is out of line. You know who else did that? Bioware with Mass Effect 3. I remember how nearly everyone disliked that game and Bioware used the defense of; "You just hate this game because you hate gay people." Which was funny given how everyone was fine with FemShep and Liara and even stood up for Bioware when Fox News went after them.
I don't know. As someone who is a content creator myself I always tell people to leave me criticism, no matter how harsh, so I can improve my content in the future. If you can't take criticism then maybe you should reconsider your line of work.
I don't know. As someone who is a content creator myself I always tell people to leave me criticism, no matter how harsh, so I can improve my content in the future. If you can't take criticism then maybe you should reconsider your line of work.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
There is a difference between criticism and vitriollic venom and death threats. Which the internet has come to think they are the same thing or that they are owed engagement from creators just because twitter is a thing.
Also Hailey Gross is the write of most of the game, I have no clue why people are so obssessed about Neil Druckman and all these internet bandwagons are always so lame. Even with people that I consider express shitty opinions like JK Rowling and Butch Hartman, when people just spend weeks even months still going on about their hate of them it just gets more than a little bit lame.
And about the game being too miserable and that's why it's bad....
There are games about checking the papers of immigrants at the border of a wartorn country where your family can die of disease, games about people in purgatoriun who you just discover slowly they did shit as vile as you can imagine. Are those games also bad now? Because they are actually considered classics.
A story where the main character gets to live at the end and even see the error of their ways isn't really that bleak. Not when there are movies about clinical depression where the world ending is a good thing, books were a man goes insane while trapped in a house because his son killed himself with a shotgun and he is trapped with the corpse. Hell this isn't as bleak as half the SMT franchise (not persona) where god is evil, the meaning of life is his amusement, and the best endings are always simply delaying the inevitable. My favorite book of all time, 100 years of solitude is a long narrative of diverse characters living their lives, having success and then it being torn away from them either by their own hand or the hand of others, with the happiest character fate being of the man who is implied autistic, marries a child bride, she dies due to complications with pregnancy and poison, he joins the Liberal army during Colombia's civil war and because this is the Colombian civil war both sides just turn in conservatives taking turns at power and none of the social reform he fought for coming to term, becoming a hermit, his children all dying when he expresses dislike for the americans americans after the Bannana Massacre happens and then he hears his own mom tell him he never really loved anyone.
Also Hailey Gross is the write of most of the game, I have no clue why people are so obssessed about Neil Druckman and all these internet bandwagons are always so lame. Even with people that I consider express shitty opinions like JK Rowling and Butch Hartman, when people just spend weeks even months still going on about their hate of them it just gets more than a little bit lame.
And about the game being too miserable and that's why it's bad....
There are games about checking the papers of immigrants at the border of a wartorn country where your family can die of disease, games about people in purgatoriun who you just discover slowly they did shit as vile as you can imagine. Are those games also bad now? Because they are actually considered classics.
A story where the main character gets to live at the end and even see the error of their ways isn't really that bleak. Not when there are movies about clinical depression where the world ending is a good thing, books were a man goes insane while trapped in a house because his son killed himself with a shotgun and he is trapped with the corpse. Hell this isn't as bleak as half the SMT franchise (not persona) where god is evil, the meaning of life is his amusement, and the best endings are always simply delaying the inevitable. My favorite book of all time, 100 years of solitude is a long narrative of diverse characters living their lives, having success and then it being torn away from them either by their own hand or the hand of others, with the happiest character fate being of the man who is implied autistic, marries a child bride, she dies due to complications with pregnancy and poison, he joins the Liberal army during Colombia's civil war and because this is the Colombian civil war both sides just turn in conservatives taking turns at power and none of the social reform he fought for coming to term, becoming a hermit, his children all dying when he expresses dislike for the americans americans after the Bannana Massacre happens and then he hears his own mom tell him he never really loved anyone.
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RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
Well when you falsely DMCA peoples Twitter and YouTube accounts through a third party company I think you are bound to get yet a bit of vitriol. That is just me though.
Big No
Watch as I open and close this door
Is comparing a book with a game really going to have the same impact on the person consuming it though? Video games are an interaction heavy experience, it's not just that Abby lives in the end but YOU the player have been actively tracking her down along with Ellie. So when Ellie makes the decision against it killing Abby, it'll feel like the game is going against the players' wishes if they haven't forgiven Abby like the game sort of expects.
I don't think you'd get the same thing reading a book since books are a completely different medium. Books don't have the reader directly interacting with the characters which allows for questionable decisions not irritating the reader as much as a game character would. Probably falls under the Ludo-narrative dissonance trope that's extremely present in a game and not so much in a book.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
I think the nadir of all this was threatening Bloodrayne (Laura Bailey) with death because she played Abby and Abby killed Joel.
That was one of the worst moments of all gaming fandom.
That's up there with people admitting they married their Rei Ayanami body pillow.
That was one of the worst moments of all gaming fandom.
That's up there with people admitting they married their Rei Ayanami body pillow.
RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
Thing is that quite a bit of that came from people who liked TLoU2. Welcome to the magical world of Twitter. A place were a lot of mentally unhinged people can not differentiate fantasy from reality and will dox you for making fun of their favorite ship. It's a wild ride over there.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Anyone who did it is a piece of shit. People who like/dislike the game aren't a political party.
I also like the Sopranos.
I'm not going to defend an asshole just because he liked the game. Its unforgivable and embarrassing to harras an actress over a fictional game.