The Last of Us 2 - Two cowgirls murdering each other's loved ones

I don't know how to digest the themes of TLOU2. It is literally a crap shoot of killing is bad but you have no agency over it, revenge is bad (but its ok in this one case), etc. Honestly, what theme are you picking up that I'm missing here.
 
I don't know how to digest the themes of TLOU2. It is literally a crap shoot of killing is bad but you have no agency over it, revenge is bad (but its ok in this one case), etc. Honestly, what theme are you picking up that I'm missing here.

My take on the subject is that Ellie thinks the best way to honor Joel is to kill his killers. However, Joel never wanted her to slaughter and kill--he just wanted her to have a happy life.
 
The idea of "civilized" rules applying in the face of the apocalypse is ridiculous.
Joel has no right to make a decision for a child because he is not Ellie's legal guardian (The Fireflies are as much as such exist) and he's also a murderer and career criminal.
Seems kind of contradictory to me.
He also executed the surrendering non combatants and admited to being a raider who killed innocent people in the past to the point his own brother says he has nightmares of their time together.
The only 'non-combatant' I recall Joel murdering was Marlene and that cunt had it coming, was it ever explained how Abbie and crew found out about Joel?
 
He failed to tell her about Django Reinhardt and Tony Iommi.
On the plus side, The Last of Us Part 3 can be all about Abby slowly becoming a zombie out on the boat with Lev and the entire game is just fighting the controls to not kill Lev. The final cutscene will be Abby finally killing Lev, and then the game announces that the MAYBE with the DLC there might be a different outcome, and then the game just plays a 10 hour loop of that girl from Parks and Recreations (who's the WOOOOOOOORST) saying MONEY PLEAAAAAASE.

The only 'non-combatant' I recall Joel murdering was Marlene and that cunt had it coming, was it ever explained how Abbie and crew found out about Joel?
I assume they just murdered everyone called Joel they found. Modern problems require modern solutions.
 
I assume they just murdered everyone called Joel they found. Modern problems require modern solutions.
Pretty much the running joke on TLOU2's thread on KiwiFarms. They find it more humorous to imagine Abby just killing literally every Joel she meets. I assume Walp knows the real reason but it's a humorous concept to consider.

"Thanks for the help against those Clickers... uh"
"Oh, my name's Joel, nice to mee-"
"Kill him now."
 
Seems kind of contradictory to me.

Not meant to be contradictory as just pointing out that from either angle, Joel has no right to make that decision. He's not her father (he said so himself) and Ellie is not nearly the child she would be in a more civilized society.

I say that as someone who thinks Joel made the right call. I just think trying to present the Fireflies as anything other than people who genuinely want to cure an incurable plague for altruistic reasons is silly.
 
The only 'non-combatant' I recall Joel murdering was Marlene and that cunt had it coming, was it ever explained how Abbie and crew found out about Joel?
The doctor as well, who you know, is the reason Abby wants to kill him in the first place. Also marlene surrendered and wanted to talk it out with him, so she definetly not had it coming, specially didn't have a gang execution as she is pleading for her life.

During Abby's section they mention that Tommy's Firefly friends talking about him founding a settlement in the mountains and because they know Tommy is Joel's brother they make their way there.
 
The doctor as well, who you know, is the reason Abby wants to kill him in the first place.
The doctor pulled a scalpel on him, and Marlene had Joel escorted out of the building and was begging for her life. As soon as Joel cleared out she would've began hunting him down, their is no way she would let the potential cure escape her. Hence Joel saying "You'd just come after her."
 
The doctor pulled a scalpel on him, and Marlene had Joel escorted out of the building and was begging for her life. As soon as Joel cleared out she would've began hunting him down, their is no way she would let the potential cure escape her. Hence Joel saying "You'd just come after her."

Which we find out is Joel being wrong because the only Firefly who knew how to make the cure was the dead doctor.

But yes, Joel killed Marlene so she wouldn't tell Ellie.
 
The doctor pulled a scalpel on him, and Marlene had Joel escorted out of the building and was begging for her life. As soon as Joel cleared out she would've began hunting him down, their is no way she would let the potential cure escape her.
A doctor with a scalpel is hardly a combatant, more like a non combatant clingign to a very ineffective weapon against a guy who just went through a bunch of heavily armed soldiers. Kinda stabbing him in the throat with his own scalpel seems more than a bit excessive for a an egghead in scrubs. Also, the fact tha the is murdering a doctor kind of a dick move. Also Marlene literally offered him a peaceful solution, if she had simply continued engagin him withviolence it owuld be one thing, but she pulled her hands up, proposed to talk it out with him and he just shot her in the stomach and then in the head as she laid on the ground.

Also, what was he actually stopping? didn't he state he was only doing it because Ellie didn't want to go through with it? was he just preventing her from even making the choice if the chance presented itself again? He also makes her never tell anyone she is immune. Seems like he just wanted to make sure she never even got the chance.

Which was all pointless because he killed the only person who even had a working hypothesis of how to make a cure out of Ellie's brain fungus and the other Fireflies didn't even bother going after him afterwards because basically their entire mission had become impossible at that point.

And again, this immoral actions is what to me makes him an interesting character. I actually was kinda bored with the story of the first game until the curve ball of the choice Joel makes comes, makes the entire adventure have a completely different meaning as basically the backstory of an anti villain.

Him dying at the hands of the child of one of his victims after he settles down and starts redeeming himself is very Western-y set up as well. Also the kid hero of the first game going down the path of turning into something similar as well while dealing with their feelings on learning about the past of the person they loved as a father is also an interesting set up. No idea why so many people are acting as if Joel is just killed off and forgotten when the entirety of the game is about the effect his death has on both Ellie and his killer.

Don't know how well it pays off just yet, but so far it's enjoyable. Altho I am not yet fully sympathetic of Abby, Owen on the other hand seems like the more sympathetic of the WLF gang but well... after playing through Ellie's half we know how that turns out.
 
Among fandom, there's a certain level of people going with their interpretations as canon. Joel's actions are meant to be morally questionable and maybe even selfish. However, plenty of people effectively rewrote it in their heads that the Fireflies planned to take over the world and were pseudo-Cobra.

That way Joel was the HERO and not someone who just chose one person over the many.
 
However, plenty of people effectively rewrote it in their heads that the Fireflies planned to take over the world and were pseudo-Cobra.
They were a bunch of terrorists trying to take over the remnants of a dying country; the effects of which we see in the beginning of the game and the other former military zone later on. They also rifle butt the person they hired to bring them the 'cure' while he's trying to save her life.
I just think trying to present the Fireflies as anything other than people who genuinely want to cure an incurable plague for altruistic reasons is silly.
Now this is silly, no where in the game are Fireflies portrayed as altruistic with the exception of Ellie in the beginning which is ironic when you consider the ending. It would most likely been used as some sort of advert for recruitment to take on the military since they were getting btfo'd pretty hard. Maybe the doctor had an altruistic plan in mind but that's all put into the second game and it's not like he was the leader or anything.
 
Oh so it is ok because you believe they should wait until they hit puberty? It's the same shit. 8 or 12 or 15 years old it is still the same fucking shit because parents are pushing this on their kids and if it isn't the parents it is the media and Hollywood and yes now fucking videogames. If you can't drink until you are 21 why should you have the right to mutilate your body? Why should a parent have that right? Anybody who supports any child of any age getting a sex change (barring special circumstances) is still in the same Lefty Clown boat. You are deranged to think that something so permanent should be decided before your brain is even fully developed. People that support such things being done to children make me sick. Sorry. Enjoy your posting.


If they waited until after that age then no one would want to fuck them.
 
Wait how. Marlene is going to just pick up a phone and call Ellie to explain the situation?

I mean, you don't think Marlene who RAISED ELLIE is not going to try to tell her Joel went on a killing spree?

They were a bunch of terrorists trying to take over the remnants of a dying country; the effects of which we see in the beginning of the game and the other former military zone later on. They also rifle butt the person they hired to bring them the 'cure' while he's trying to save her life.

Now this is silly, no where in the game are Fireflies portrayed as altruistic with the exception of Ellie in the beginning which is ironic when you consider the ending. It would most likely been used as some sort of advert for recruitment to take on the military since they were getting btfo'd pretty hard. Maybe the doctor had an altruistic plan in mind but that's all put into the second game and it's not like he was the leader or anything.

Well, they're against the military because they want to restore democracy and civilian rule. They believe that humanity can do better and they shall rebuild once they have a cure. The military obviously thinks this is stupid.
 
Also, the fact tha the is murdering a doctor kind of a dick move.
Yeah, a doctor is killing a person without their consent. What a great doctor that holds up the Hippocratic Oath! How could such a dickhead harm a man?

Rest of that post is pretty spot on.
Also, what was he actually stopping? didn't he state he was only doing it because Ellie didn't want to go through with it? was he just preventing her from even making the choice if the chance presented itself again? He also makes her never tell anyone she is immune. Seems like he just wanted to make sure she never even got the chance.
This is mostly true. Yes, Joel lying about it also robs Ellie of her informed choice on the matter. But it's not like the Fireflies were going to let her have a choice either. I'd be all for Joel attacking that hospital as a bad thing had the Fireflies and doctors waited an hour or two to talk to Ellie about it, who would have probably agreed. But that consent was never asked for or given.
 
I mean, you don't think Marlene who RAISED ELLIE is not going to try to tell her Joel went on a killing spree?

That's literally not what I said - how is Marlene going to communicate this to Ellie after they just drove off miles away.
 
Well...

Only a matter of time before it passes TLoU2.
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...

The game about the samurai being almost exterminated, the impracticality of honor, and survivor's guilt?

Okay.

Sure.

Fun.

Mind you, Jim Sterling and I agree that it's bullshit to have TLOU2 say it's not fun. His biggest takedown of the game is, "This game is incredibly fun. Whatcha talking about, Droufman? You have enormous fun killing motherfuckers. Its great at that."
 
The game about soldiers killing each other, the chaos of war, survivor's guilt?

Okay.

Sure.

Fun.

I just described Call of duty and every military shooter ever, having a dark story doesn't make the game not fun. When you have shitty naughty dog gameplay to break up the cut scenes every now and then piled on is probably what people might not find fun.
 
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