The Positive Thread

[the_ikhwan]

I would like to be pointed in the direction of an occasion when Bethesda's Fallout 3 nailed the humor of the first two Fallouts. I haven't seen or heard anything comparable.

It really is not all that difficult to do. Take the retro-futuristic motif, add irony, present well, and viola. The Monty Python references and things like that that were present in FO1 and 2 are not really "Fallout Humor". They are just general "humor" put in by the devs. I don't need to see the holy orb of antioch to say Bethesda nailed FO humor.

Thus far I have been relatively happy with the setting and feel that are being presented by Bethesda. Most of my gripes with FO3 come from gameplay elements.

 

[Scare]

Pop culture references aside, I've seen nothing that compares to Cassidy saying off-color racist remarks when there were mutants in your party, the dwarf in the hole, that conversation with that guy in the Den ('what's up with the accent?', 'I'm a provider.'), Hubology, hitting on Tandi as a chick ('I'm not that kind of girl!'), or 'I'm just kidding, his names Bob!'.

and I'm sure someone else could come up with a better list than that

 

[EnglishMuffin]

I think bethesda will seriously fuck up the game, but at the same time I can't help but be excited about it coming out. Of course I will be even more excited when they release the mod tools so the fallout community can fix their load of shit.

I have never done a game review and will do my first one on F3. Maybe just for myself or maybe someone will care what I have to say. It will more than likely be fun tearing bethesda a new asshole or praising them for actually making a pretty damn good fallout game.

 

[nelat]

shaping up...maybe, personally I don't think we can say ANYTHING about the game untill we see the PC version...Console and PC versions are 2 compleatly different things in my world when we talk FPS shooter games.

So far we have ONLY seen ingame stuff of the console version, which I could care less about

Console is a joke at fps games...slow, dull, controller for fps = lol

(consoles work great with sports games etc...not fps shooters)

Mouse + keyboard is ten times faster then a controller is and THAT will make the difference of a fun fps shooter or a shitty console game.


I cannot say anything about humor, or the fallout world in FO3...theres no telling from the short tests that has been made so far imo.

I really do hope that putting skill points into small guns, big guns etc MAKES a difference.

So far all we have seen from the console version of the game, is a hacked character who shoots up everything on hes path with either a sniper or a mini nuke....which kinda shows...well nothing for the RPG crowd. Big blasts ...and stupid AI where he obviously gets hit but since the char is "hacked" its impossible to tell if they are a threat to him or they are just plain...crappy enemies.
Where is the duck and cover, enemies flanking him? Why does that chick on the bridge just sit and wait to get Teddy Bear killed...? instead of putting a few rounds into our head?

 

[decline]

the idea of making a fallout 1st person doesn't overly bother me. the real time, im a bit on the fence about...its not my favorite way to play though. even the console thing doesn't bother me anymore as i got tired of worrying about system requirments...its nice to just be able to buy and play.
it really is the rest of what bethsada seems to be doing and/or not doing, their general attitude, and that oblivion was just not a good rpg at all, that really has me down.
just introduced a friend to fallout 1 and 2 and he has now fallen in love with them. he said something along the lines of, "i couldn't figure out where to go, when i realized i had to figure out where to go and it wasn't that i just couldn't find it on a highlighted destination, didn't realize how much i missed that in a game." he was also blown away when he saw that i had solved the same quests differently. having to think your way through stuff seems to add a lot to a game i guess lol

 

[nelat]

yea....thinking really SUX, who needs thinking to play a video game!

mindless killing and clicks with the mouse > everything else!!!


I hope Bethesda shows respect for the FO genre...

 

[Herr Mike]

Oh yeah, Fallout was a real mental exercise...

Anyway, I sympathize with the optimism of the opening post. I think many people just simply want to hate the game, because it's not the same as what they had as kids. That's the way people are.

You can't go home again. An "old school" Fallout 3 would never have happened.

 

[Madbringer]

Anyway, I sympathize with the optimism of the opening post. I think many people just simply want to hate the game, because it's not the same as what they had as kids. That's the way people are.

I think many people don't want to play Silent Hunter when they want to play Leisure Suit Larry.

I think many people don't want to watch Ace Ventura: Pet Detective when they want to watch Blue Velvet.

I think many people don't want to listen to Linkin Park when they want to listen to Ray Charles.

I think some people are stupid.

 

[Herr Mike]

I think many people don't want to play Silent Hunter when they want to play Leisure Suit Larry.

Okay...

I think many people don't want to watch Ace Ventura: Pet Detective when they want to watch Blue Velvet.

I can buy that...

I think many people don't want to listen to Linkin Park when they want to listen to Ray Charles.

Impeccable logic. Linkin Park != Ray Charles.

I think some people are stupid.

Where did this come from??

 

[Madbringer]

I think you missed my point. By several hundred miles.

 

[Herr Mike]

I think you missed my point. By several hundred miles.

No I don't think so. Fallout 3 is not Fallout 1 or 2. Why you felt the need to point this out, and call some people stupid, I don't know.

If you were calling me stupid, well, that really hurts.

 

[Madbringer]

People are angry because they expect Fallout to be Fallout, and instead they get something completely different, still being packaged as it. Now, it may be a norm for you - apparently, it isn't for a darn lot of other people.

You would be angry if in your pack of Lays weren't chips, but used condoms, right? You would be even more angry, if you went back to the store, explained your problem to the manager, and he'd say: "The label says Lays. That means it is Lays. Stop whining and eat your chips.".

 

[alec]

I don't think Bethesda's screwing it up.

Good for you.

You would be angry if in your pack of Lays weren't chips, but used condoms, right? You would be even more angry, if you went back to the store, explained your problem to the manager, and he'd say: "The label says Lays. That means it is Lays. Stop whining and eat your chips.".

Nice way to explain the obvious to the less intelligent amongst us.

 

[Herr Mike]

People are angry because they expect Fallout to be Fallout, and instead they get something completely different, still being packaged as it. Now, it may be a norm for you - apparently, it isn't for a darn lot of other people.

You would be angry if in your pack of Lays weren't chips, but used condoms, right? You would be even more angry, if you went back to the store, explained your problem to the manager, and he'd say: "The label says Lays. That means it is Lays. Stop whining and eat your chips.".

Fallout 3 is Fallout with a new format.

If that's enough to make it "not-Fallout" for you, that's your deal. But you can't say it means that no one will like it as a Fallout game.

If there were message boards around when Duke Nukem 3D came out, people would surely complain about it not being Duke Nukem because Duke Nukem is a side scroller.

The game could adhere 100% to the old formula and still suck. Or it could be something completely different, and be great. Fallout 3 is neither, meaning we'll have to play it to know how good it is.

 

[Herr Mike]

I don't think Bethesda's screwing it up.

Good for you.

You would be angry if in your pack of Lays weren't chips, but used condoms, right? You would be even more angry, if you went back to the store, explained your problem to the manager, and he'd say: "The label says Lays. That means it is Lays. Stop whining and eat your chips.".

Nice way to explain the obvious to the less intelligent amongst us.

So the non-luddites are the less intelligent. Super.

 

[generalissimofurioso]

I was not aware that Luddites were capable of using the internet or long-lived enough to know of it.

 

[Madbringer]

Fallout 3 is Fallout with a new format.

If that's enough to make it "not-Fallout" for you, that's your deal. But you can't say it means that no one will like it as a Fallout game.

If there were message boards around when Duke Nukem 3D came out, people would surely complain about it not being Duke Nukem because Duke Nukem is a side scroller.

The game could adhere 100% to the old formula and still suck. Or it could be something completely different, and be great. Fallout 3 is neither, meaning we'll have to play it to know how good it is.

No. See, if it was done according to the 'old formula' it could, or could not suck, as a Fallout game. Being done in a completely different way, changing almost every single core gameplay mechanics (and dumbing the rpg aspects down in the process), we already know it won't be a Fallout game at all, so it doesn't matter if it will be good or bad in it's own accord, at least, not for most fans of the old games.

Fallout 3 is not 'Fallout with a new format'. Fallout 3 is an inaptly named spin-off.

Jeez, man, do i really need to start doing circles here?

 

[Herr Mike]

No. See, if it was done according to the 'old formula' it could, or could not suck, as a Fallout game. Being done in a completely different way, changing almost every single core gameplay mechanics (and dumbing the rpg aspects down in the process), we already know it won't be a Fallout game at all, so it doesn't matter if it will be good or bad in it's own accord, at least, not for most fans of the old games.

Well, not for you, anyway. I'm as big a fan of the old games as anyone.

I get what you are saying. It's not how you would do Fallout so you hate it. What I don't get is why you feel that the people who do want to play it are stupid, or less intelligent.

 

[Madbringer]

What I don't get is why you feel that the people who do want to play it are stupid, or less intelligent.

Quote me.

Alright, alright, i won't engage in silly nitpicking fights here. *sigh*

That sentence was directed at people who fail to grasp why the 'hardcore Fallout fans' severely dislike how Fallout 3 turned out to be. At you too, in part, since you said it's only because we want to play the same game we played when we were kids. Aside from the obvious being that not nearly everyone was a child when playing Fallout for the first time, you will find a very small fraction of the people here would want to play simply exactly the same game, but with new locations and new items.

There is always room for improvements and revamps. Not everything was perfect in both the previous games, and change is not a bad thing, as Van Buren, despite never getting finished, showed. Bethesda just took the changes way, way too far, warping Fallout's image in their own design. Used condoms, man. Used condoms.

 

[Moving Target]

Fallout 3 is Fallout with a new format.

Incorrect. Fallout 3 is Fallout with an OLD format: the format which FO1/2 were SPECIFICALLY created as a counterpoint.

In those years (oh ye ancient times of legend!) the market was glutted with first-person shooters. Doom clones were thick on the ground and cRPGs were seen as almost dead beasts.

Then Interplay (back when they truly were "By Gamers, For Gamers,") used the idea of the old Wasteland game- a post-apocalyptic, turn-based cRPG, based on pen and paper mechanics- and used it to make a new game world.

Again, this was done to go against the flow. And no, that 'technical limitations of the time' excuse does not hold water. For the time, Fallout 1 and 2 look great- especially the talking heads.

Now.... when we all see what's being done to the franchise, and please, bear in mind we've had about three years of tight-lipped, borderline hostile reactions with Bethseda software, and NOW that we see what they think is important (IE- the E3 demo) and it doesn't even remotely look like the previous Fallout games (to say nothing of the massive ret-cons in game lore to get the Brotherhood and Super Mutants on the East Coast).... we're a bit pissed.

And please, PLEASE don't bring out this "lol all u want iz fallout 2 again... u r dum!!!!11!!11" argument. It's been shredded so many times it's not even funny. And doesn't make sense.... did you see the Van Buren tech demo? Did THAT look like Fallout 2? No. Based on what we read about it, did it seem like it was going to be a lore-consistent Fallout sequel? Yes.

What about Beths? Well.... doesn't look like it, mechanics are the same (except SPECIAL... and without Action Points [and not that nonsense about Bullet Time Points,] there are a LOT of things that changed with regards to stats), they moved all the factions to the East Coast for some weird-ass reason.... Walks like a duck, talks like a duck...

If that's enough to make it "not-Fallout" for you, that's your deal. But you can't say it means that no one will like it as a Fallout game.

I'd say the above things are the reasons why most people here think Fallout 3 is "not-Fallout."

If there were message boards around when Duke Nukem 3D came out, people would surely complain about it not being Duke Nukem because Duke Nukem is a side scroller.

Maybe... but then again, it was called Duke Nukem 3D, not Duke Nukem 3. Which implies that it's a spin-off.

The game could adhere 100% to the old formula and still suck. Or it could be something completely different, and be great. Fallout 3 is neither, meaning we'll have to play it to know how good it is.

Oh sure, the game could adhere and such, but so what? And it COULD be great, but so what? This 'wait and see' thing won't fly here. Bethsoft's got a bad track record of lying- a lot- about their releases, alienating their old fan bases, screwing over the fans of other IPs, and showing very little in the way of customer support.

It's not a good sign when you see exactly the same lines from the Oblivion pre-release- except substituting certain terms from Oblivion (Radiant AI) to Fallout 3 (VATS.)