The state of videogames

[Crni Vuk]

thats exactly the point I want to make, even if they create remakes, they still seem to be inferior to the "original". And I don't say that because of nostalgia, I mean it seriously.

Many genres today, as far as block buster games goes, games with high production and budged, have been watered down a lot, some almost disappeared, like adventure games, turn based games etc. Which studios that is as huge like EA, Ubisoft or the like would seriously consider to make such a game, but with the budged of CoD for example.

Thats what I mean when I say the business has not "moved foreward". There is nothing wrong with games like CoD. Or other brainless shooters/action games, I definitely can enjoy them. And there have been many shit games out there in the past as well. I never denied that.

But the kind of games you find now on kickstarter had a better chance in the past to be made with a budged by a company. We didn't even had this classification or idea about "independend" developers and such. This came later. In some sense the industry has matured, while in other parts it actually started to move backward.

 

[Wastewander]

Beat'em up? Nonexistant.

Nonsense! Anarchy Reigns and Double Dragon Neon are real.

But I do agree when it comes to stealth games, and the more action-oriented direction they've been taking as of late. While I enjoyed Hitman: Absolution, it isn't without its faults, more specifically about how blatantly the game was designed around Instinct. Haven't even bothered with the latest Splinter Cell games, although I've heard some positive remarks about Blacklist. Don't even get me started on what's been said about Thief, etc., etc. All of the sudden playing a game as intended is too punishing, and it's all about giving the player freedom. Whilst freedom can be a good thing, it is detrimental when it goes against a certain core game design.

I can't say much about FPS coz I suck at them, and never been into them.

That and going after the CoD crowd (or their numbers at least) is as stupid of a move as ever. Due to this there is a retarded budget when making games where they have to sell millions just to break even (looking at you Hitman, and Tomb Raider). I agree with Jebus when he says that it is an odd thing that sales are even discussed. But of course it's going to come up when publishers don't budget games accordingly and are always looking to make big numbers. Which particularly pisses me off when it comes to horror games because all of the sudden they are "too niche" and they don't sell well thus companies like Capcom don't go that route or they ramp up the action.

I do think there are some enjoyable, and good games out there, but while overrated is a word I dislike to use, most of them are as such. Although there's never been a greater time to be a fan of fighting games. Unless you're into MvC3 because of the shit support it has thanks to Marvel.

"Properly" portraying female characters, having good romance and including popular gimmicks like zombies and what have you are what is considered QUALITY now.

I'm all for greater diverse representation in any medium, but my god, if this shit doesn't bug me on some level. I've seen awful shit supported just for "proper portrayal", having a female character(s) as a protagonist, or someone from a certain ethnic background.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

Beat'em up? Nonexistant.

Nonsense! Anarchy Reigns and Double Dragon Neon are real.

Damn, how could I forget them? I even have the former. Oh, and Dragon's Crown too.

...

Ok, I was wrong on this one, even though it seems to me that they reapperead only recently.

Cadillacs & Dinosaurs is still king though.

Although there's never been a greater time to be a fan of fighting games.

Yeah, that genre is at its stongest now, even better than the 90s. Lot of games and the genre is like a science now. Heck, even Mortal Kombat is good now! Sadly Fatal Fury is no more.

BlazBlue player, by chance?

 

[Walpknut]

I don't want to touch this with a 5 foot pole. But I will only say I agree with Jebus, but wil ladd that the problem now is that the so called "game journalism" gives more focus to the worse examples of how to make a game while forthing at the mouth about them without seekign to open discussion about them, but rather going by the "Budget = Quality" mentality.

The "every past time was better" mentality is very dumb in any topic is brought up. Mostly because it is mostly about nostalgia filters than any actual argument.

 

[Wumbology]

Counterpoints?

Feel free to quote Jebus' rant minus the Tourettes and present it from yourself, and I might respond to those so-called "counterpoints", known by reasonable men as strawmen.

There's that word again!

The matter of the fact is that Jebus has actually pointed out that your misconception that "not a single new game is good" is an untruth. He at no point misrepresented your case, even if he was... verbose.

 

[UniversalWolf]

It reminds me of all the shit Michael Bay gets. Sure, his movies are vapid. Sure, there's a mess and there's too much explosions. But... that's because you're not the target audience. His target audience is teenage boys. And what's wrong with that?

They are bad even from that angle. Michael Bay is a terrible writer/director.

I agree, and if you care at all about movies and culture it's important to point out that fact.

 

[Jebus]

It reminds me of all the shit Michael Bay gets. Sure, his movies are vapid. Sure, there's a mess and there's too much explosions. But... that's because you're not the target audience. His target audience is teenage boys. And what's wrong with that?

They are bad even from that angle. Michael Bay is a terrible writer/director.

I agree, and if you care at all about movies and culture it's important to point out that fact.

I think they're aweful too - but then I know a lot of ten- to thirteen-year-olds who love his movies. It's them he's making them for.

 

[fred2]

I don't want to touch this with a 5 foot pole. But I will only say I agree with Jebus, but wil ladd that the problem now is that the so called "game journalism" gives more focus to the worse examples of how to make a game while forthing at the mouth about them without seekign to open discussion about them, but rather going by the "Budget = Quality" mentality.

What you describe regarding "Game journalism" is not unique to gaming, I think anyone who follows news or even topical magazins, will note a shift from current events debate to more trendy and sensationalized pieces which sells well i.e. one good pictures sells more than thousand words...

There is also the reality of how marketing/previews work, simply put for many game developers after release period can be the difference between success and bankruptcy. There is a huge competition at the top and like it or not "the best game wins" is stuff for fairy tales(like with most products), which is the reason for the hated hype machine and set in stone release dates, because sometimes its better to release the game unpolished and fix it later, then release it in the next quarter and find yourself out of job because another title scheduled there took all the spotlights(market saturation etc) How this is relevant to Game journalism? simple, developers can choose who/when someone will be grant early access to their games, for preview purposes(i.e. news) so any one who want to be big and stay current, need to know how to play ball.

With that being said, there are also a big verity of websites and various podcast communities, where Journalist cover a genre they actually know something about and provide, good reviews and analysis.

 

[.Pixote.]

The "every past time was better" mentality is very dumb in any topic is brought up. Mostly because it is mostly about nostalgia filters than any actual argument.

Yep very true. Deus Ex plays like a dream, but looks shit compared to Battlefield 4, but we shouldn't try to compare apples and oranges. Times have changed, and people have changed, and therefore games have changed...

Those "nostalgia filters" are pretty powerful - sometimes I wish I could scrape my brain, and start my gaming experiences all over again. It's interesting how music doesn't suffer as badly as games, because we all know the 60s and 70s had the best music.

 

[Wastewander]

Damn, how could I forget them? I even have the former. Oh, and Dragon's Crown too.

...

Ok, I was wrong on this one, even though it seems to me that they reapperead only recently.

Ha, I know what you mean, though. They're not at the forefront of the hype machine so they're easily overlooked. Short of following Platinum Games, it is probably rare to know of Anarchy Reigns. DDN is a downloadable title so it has even less exposure.

Yeah, that genre is at its stongest now, even better than the 90s. Lot of games and the genre is like a science now. Heck, even Mortal Kombat is good now! Sadly Fatal Fury is no more.

BlazBlue player, by chance?

Nah, unfortunately I never knew enough people who played it to justify buying BB. Totally all over GGXrd, tho.

 

[shihonage]

The "every past time was better" mentality is very dumb in any topic is brought up. Mostly because it is mostly about nostalgia filters than any actual argument.

Yep very true. Deus Ex plays like a dream, but looks shit compared to Battlefield 4, but we shouldn't try to compare apples and oranges. Times have changed, and people have changed, and therefore games have changed...

Those "nostalgia filters" are pretty powerful - sometimes I wish I could scrape my brain, and start my gaming experiences all over again. It's interesting how music doesn't suffer as badly as games, because we all know the 60s and 70s had the best music.

The "nostalgia filter" argument is a hit-and-miss. It mostly applies to people who run older games NOW and become disappointed in the visuals or clunky interface, without noticing the superiority of mechanics or narrative management.

Graphics renderers are a banality. When you discard that and take a careful look at a game's core... for example, there was a military-grade simulation engine inside Mechwarrior 2, Battlezone and Interstate 76.

It hasn't since then been reproduced. Those games still _feel_ amazing, and there hasn't been anything like them for a very long time.

Or let's take Doom1/2. A miraculous balance of visual style, movement speeds, weapon functionality, level design, general "feel". The game is still unsurpassed.

All those "Painkillers" and "Serious Sams" are weak caricatures, flawed in many ways.

Fallout... well, I've written tomes about that. The game has depth rarely found in modern RPGs. Its dialogue system alone is more complex. And that's the tip of the tip of the iceberg.

Nostalgia goggles... they can apply to some games. Some games have been decisively improved on. But they don't apply to the classics, unless you're just looking at the surface presentation.

The simple truth is... if something came out that evolved on those great games, I would recognize it as such NOW. It would become the new classic, making its predecessors less relevant.

Back in the 90s those games were new, and I didn't cling to them out of (impossible) nostalgia, but out of contemporary recognition of their greatness.

 

[fred2]

Or let's take Doom1/2. A miraculous balance of visual style, movement speeds, weapon functionality, level design, general "feel". The game is still unsurpassed.
...
The simple truth is... if something came out that evolved on those great games, I would recognize it as such NOW. It would become the new classic, making its predecessors less relevant.

Obviously opinions tend to hit-and-miss as well. Also is there any chance that you play 'Saints Row: The Third', because I really see you there running around with an extra large pink dildo.

 

[shihonage]

Or let's take Doom1/2. A miraculous balance of visual style, movement speeds, weapon functionality, level design, general "feel". The game is still unsurpassed.
...
The simple truth is... if something came out that evolved on those great games, I would recognize it as such NOW. It would become the new classic, making its predecessors less relevant.

Obviously opinions tend to hit-and-miss as well. Also is there any chance that you play 'Saints Row: The Third', because I really see you there running around with an extra large pink dildo.

Yeah everything is subjective, and Star Wars: Phantom Menace is actually a masterpiece of storytelling from the right angle

I'm done with this thread. You're not worth my time.

 

[fred2]

Look, my feelings about the crowd crying help help I'm being repressed by the big bad industry are well known. However, I respect everyone opinions and sensibilities, you might try todo the same when you express your opinion, because it's not what you say, but how you choose to say it, which makes me think that your extra large pink dildo is lodge real deep up where the sun don't shine.

With that being said, what do I know I am just one random guy on the internet, who can barely write in English.

 

[Akratus]

Look, my feelings about the crowd crying help help I'm being repressed by the big bad industry are well known.

This isn't quite correct. We are not saying that the industry is completely bad, and it is rather silly of you to say "repressed by the big bad industry." If anything is being repressed it is creative thought and the freedoms of developers.

Even if you don't agree that videogames are in a bad state, you must at least agree that criticism and introspection can lead to improvements and a possible rise in quality, even if just a little. And for me that would be worth it. If we could ever see it.

However, I respect everyone opinions and sensibilities,

If you say so, but I fail to see it much. You should try to express your opinion, however opposing it might be without commenting on the way others do. That's the only way we can keep the debate civil and effective.

you might try todo the same when you express your opinion, because it's not what you say, but how you choose to say it, which makes me think that your extra large pink dildo is lodge real deep up where the sun don't shine.

With that being said, what do I know I am just one random guy on the internet, who can barely write in English.

It's kind of you to say that, and I mean that. But this thread has gotten heated and I lament that. How is this such a personal issue for some of you? I don't quite understand that. We should be discussing the issue here, not each other. Try to keep it civil, folks, and focus on facts and arguments.

You guys were ignoring each other's arguments and just attack each other. You're not discussing anything, just fighting with words.

To get us back on track: Is anyone here excited for the new console generation, and the effect that will have on the pc platform? Also, what upcoming games grab your attention?

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

The "every past time was better" mentality is very dumb in any topic is brought up. Mostly because it is mostly about nostalgia filters than any actual argument.

Despite some jankiness, a lot of older games have more depth that their contemporary counterparts. How is that not an argument?

It's not that new games are crap, it's that true masterpieces are rarer and rarer because everyone is afraid of pushing the envelope because it could restrict the audience.

Devil May Cry 3 was a genre-defining action game that sold very well and was notable, among other things, for its very challenging difficulty level and incredible depth. Eight years later Capcom rebooted the franchise with the explicite goal of broadening the audience, and they aimed to do this by dumbing down the gameplay and reducind tenfold the challenge. Is the reboot a bad game? No, but its predecessors shit all over it.

I think they're aweful too - but then I know a lot of ten- to thirteen-year-olds who love his movies. It's them he's making them for.

I doubt it, given some of the jokes and scenes in his movies. And even if he were...it's a weak excuse anyway. Just because you are writing for kids doesn't mean that you shouldn't have a plot that makes sense or well written characters.

Nah, unfortunately I never knew enough people who played it to justify buying BB. Totally all over GGXrd, tho.

My Baiken and Sol will wait for you.

To get us back on track: Is anyone here excited for the new console generation, and the effect that will have on the pc platform? Also, what upcoming games grab your attention?

I am excited and will be on board day-1. But the games that have brought my attention ATM are Resogun (indie 2D shooter) and inFamous 3 (available in March). Ahem... >_>

I don't know what kind of effect you would expect for the PC as platform. :S Console ports other than looking prettier don't take really advantage of it, and if you want to do a PC exclusive what does it matter what the console can and can't do?

 

[Walpknut]

I am a figthin game noob, never played them growing up so the part of my brain that would've allowed me as a kid to get the reflexes and skill on fighting ames is hopelessly closed. I am only competent in Figthing games that are more about timing and reflexes than huge ombos and footsie. I think I am pretty decent at Persona 4 Arena, but that is what you might call a casual version of Blaze Bleu.

 

[Jebus]

I think they're aweful too - but then I know a lot of ten- to thirteen-year-olds who love his movies. It's them he's making them for.

I doubt it, given some of the jokes and scenes in his movies. And even if he were...it's a weak excuse anyway. Just because you are writing for kids doesn't mean that you shouldn't have a plot that makes sense or well written characters.

Yes it is. I mean, when you were watching the Power Rangers etc. when you were a kid, did you want tight plots and deep characters?

As I said, leave the boys what little they have left.

 

[woo1108]

Also, what upcoming games grab your attention?

This? http://www.gameinformer.com/games/r...-rome-is-as-fun-as-dialing-phone-numbers.aspx

I think game market never changes.
huge amount of people just buy game for looks-real-raphic and name(like COP) and don't know how to play complex game.
but small amount yet still many people likes complex game.
what have been changed is Journalism and publisher.
since game journals don't rate real masterpiece or games that has great potential high but rate best seller higher, people start to believe that sold number=game's quality. but does best seller books are really worth? I think it's same for game. best sellers are sold well not because it worth but it was written by famous people or advertised well. that's all.

and publisher became too greedy. adventure or RPG are hardly sold more than million. but those two genre has it's own good potential and steady fans who want adventure and RPG. but publisher don't try these two genre just because they hardly sold more than million. curse activision for having copywrite of Arcanum, curse beth for having Fallout, curse EA for having Ultiam and curse other big publisher which has great name of RPG but don't make it's proper sequel. but actually, million is huge number not a small number.

 

[Crni Vuk]

It reminds me of all the shit Michael Bay gets. Sure, his movies are vapid. Sure, there's a mess and there's too much explosions. But... that's because you're not the target audience. His target audience is teenage boys. And what's wrong with that?

They are bad even from that angle. Michael Bay is a terrible writer/director.

I agree, and if you care at all about movies and culture it's important to point out that fact.

I think they're aweful too - but then I know a lot of ten- to thirteen-year-olds who love his movies. It's them he's making them for.

There are also a lot of teens that love to get drunk burning down trash cans while doing so.

Just saying.