The truth behind 9/11

[The Commissar]

...

...think about it.

,
The Vault Dweller

Not every country puts the Day before the Month, Comrade.

 

[The Vault Dweller]

Damnit I forgot that.

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller

 

[Tempistfury]

I've been watching this thread and I'm surprised no one has linked This

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5137581991288263801&q=loose+change

It *is* an conspiracy theory movie, it *is* propaganda and it is an hour and 20 min long. That being said, it is also an interesting watch, and asks some interesting questions. If you have the time, I suggest you watch it, regardless of if you believe in a conspiracy theory or not. I doubt it will sway your minds if you don't but as I said, it asks some interesting questions.

 

[Dr. Jerkoholic]

The United States of America is sometimes described as "the epitome of a free society". But when you can be jailed for years for smoking a joint (or snorting a line of coke) in the privacy of your own home, when you can be denied boarding on a domestic flight because you are on some "homeland security" watch list, when your house can be stolen from you by the government because your son stashed a baggie in the attic, when you can be declared to be a "terrorist" and locked up because you took part in a non-violent anti-government demonstration, when the mere possession of a "controlled substance" (whether or not planted on you by crooked police) is enough to ruin your life and the lives of your family, when the police can search your home without a warrant and without informing you, then it is ridiculous to claim that the U.S. is a free society. It is more accurately described as a crypto-fascist state — meaning that it's a fascist state but that this is carefully hidden from most people (more easily done if most people do not want to know); no jackbooted torchlight parades, just the complete dominance of state power over civil liberties and the natural rights of citizens.

In the U.S., despite the rhetoric and propaganda, a ruthless and authoritarian federal government has come to trample on the natural rights of the people, and many citizens, especially those that do not belong to the racial majority or do not fit in to the corporate-capitalist model of society, are imprisoned for victimless "crimes" and lose both liberty and property. Far from being a model for the world of a government of a free people the government of the U.S.A. is in effect a fascist dictatorship, such as the world has not seen openly since the 1930s. Sometimes I wonder if half the country's population is on Prozac not to see this...

So now, after a genocidal mass murderer (Eisenhower, Germany, 1945-49), a used-car salesman and warmonger who caused the deaths of millions of people (Nixon, Vietnam and Cambodia), a vicious former B-grade movie actor who financed death squads (Ronald Reagan, Central America) and a CIA spy chief who showed only contempt for the American people and for the U.S. Constitution (George H. W. Bush) we finally have as President of the United States a psychopath (or as some would prefer to describe him, a sociopath), who has in his entire life achieved nothing by his own efforts (it was all handed to him by his daddy and his daddy's friends in high places) and whose only distinction is that he managed to become a state governer, presiding over 152 executions including the execution of the mentally handicapped — George W. Bush.

The United States is led by a "born-again Christian" whose main interest is baseball, whose mental shallowness is breathtaking, who is oblivious to the important issues of our time, concerned only with venting his anger on those he sees as his enemies, George W. Bush; and by former Pentagon head and Big Oil man Dick Cheney, upon whose knee the puppet George W. Bush sits and who actually mouths the words that Bush appears to utter, though occasionally Bush manages to come out with something of his own, as in:

"If this were a dictatorship it would be a heck of a lot easier; just so long as I was the dictator." — George W. Bush, Washington DC, 2000-12-18, letting the cat out of the bag and revealing the utter contempt for the American Republic and the U.S. Constitution that he learnt from his daddy.

As is well-known to all Americans who have attended to sociopolitical developments in the U.S. in recent years with any degree of intelligence, the American government has de facto abrogated the Constitution. In particular the executive branch has arrogated to itself powers which it is in no way granted in the Constitution, and has in fact assumed dictatorial powers. Central to this process has been FEMA (the Federal Emergency Management Agency, created and empowered by a series of executive orders). This abrogation of the Constitution was actually carried out by means of the Act of 1871, and the encroachment of the corporation legally known as THE UNITED STATES upon the rights and liberties of Americans has been done gradually over the years so that this development has escaped the attention of most Americans.

And how about a prayer for the workers in poor countries earning a couple of bucks a day for products sold at high prices in America? How about a prayer for the millions in Africa who go to sleep hungry most nights and have to cook with polluted water? And maybe a prayer for all the small farmers being forced off their land by competition from big agri-business (keen to feed us Frankenstein foods)? And a prayer for all the Americans who are now unemployed because their jobs were shipped overseas? And a prayer for everyone whose lives will subsequently be blighted by the direct and indirect consequences of America's current and future military aggression against the rest of the world? Will we ever live to see Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Powell and others put on trial for their war crimes? Hermann Goering and his war criminal cronies never thought they'd face justice either.

Once the American people understand that they have been robbed blind and that the money they thought was being used to run the government is actually being funneled, in a manner that would make Enron's frauds seem paltry, to the vaults of a few private banking institutions, the people will wake up and join the million man petition for a redress of grievances. The power is with the people, but unless the people use that power it remains dormant. We haven't awoken enough people to their proactive power as the respiratory system of the Constitution and the government. In order to make the government submissive to the will of the people, the people must be educated.
— Citizen Spook

 

[Tannhauser]

You don't like genetically engineered foods either?

 

[DirtyDreamDesigner]

But he does like genetically engineered weeds apparently...

 

[bob_the_rambler]

9/11 was the Crab people....who have been feeding for years on genetically manipulated corn...just waiting for the chance to strike...using a little bit of magic and jet fuel....


Really though....any ever heard of flight 93? thats proof enough for me that it really was just terrorists hijacking planes. All the phone calls from the passengers to their families clearly mention middle eastern men with knives and a "bomb" that have hijacked their plane.

The physics envolved in the WTC collapse are not set in stone...9/11 was really the first time the buildings structural prowess had been tested on such a grand scale.

 

[Dr. Jerkoholic]

Really though....any ever heard of flight 93? thats proof enough for me that it really was just terrorists hijacking planes. All the phone calls from the passengers to their families clearly mention middle eastern men with knives and a "bomb" that have hijacked their plane.

Hah! If you have only read up on things you would have learned just how many inconsistencies there are about that particular flight alone, cellphone calls being the least of them. But let's just focus on the phonecalls for now, shall we?

There was this tale that appeared in Newsweek way back, etc., about plucky passengers on UA Flight 93 jumping the hijackers ("OK, let's roll!") — this I can with significant confidence say was entirely fictitious, fabricated by some psy-war operative with training as a two-bit Hollywood scriptwriter and disseminated with the help of some willing media whore. Just look at this:

The story even has the ultimate terror of imminent death in the 'reported' (but unheard by you or I) last words of an airline stewardess. "My God, my God, I see buildings....water!"

Down at the bottom of the Bargain Bin, in the pulp fiction section of the local charity shop, I can find dime-a-dozen trashy novels with plenty of "My God, My God..." dialogue.

But the REAL world of actual airline stewardess has people, not cartoon dumb blondes. They KNOW what New York looks like from the air ...

She might have said something credible like: "Jesus Christ! We're gonna hit Manhattan."

But no. "I see buildings...." (...and, wait for it...) ..pause.. "...water." Check out that pregnant pause in every publication of the quote. Does that pause feel right to you? Not to me. The whole thing feels like a ham-fisted effort designed to make us believe certain things.

If cellphones work from a plane flying at 30,000 feet and at a speed of hundreds of miles an hour then the Newsweek story about the passengers making calls might contain some truth (they were told to call so as to provide support for the soon-to-be-released official story) — but not that part of the story which has one of the passengers, Mark Bingham, calling his mother, saying "Hi Mom, this is Mark Bingham."

In fact there is no evidence, except anecdotal, that any of the doomed passengers made any cellphone call.

And in fact research by Prof. A. K. Dewdney and others has shown that it is practically impossible that multiple calls from a plane flying at the normal cruising height and speed of a commercial airliner could be made.

As was shown above, the chance of a typical cellphone call from cruising altitude making it to ground and engaging a cellsite there is less than one in a hundred. To calculate the probability that two such calls will succeed involves elementary probability theory. The resultant probability is the product of the two probabilities, taken separately. In other words, the probability that two callers will succeed is less than one in ten thousand. In the case of a hundred such calls, even if a large majority fail, the chance of, say 13 calls getting through can only be described as infinitesimal. In operational terms, this means "impossible."

The 9/11 Commission's Report provides an almost visual description of the Arab hijackers. It depicts in minute detail events occurring inside the cabin of the four hijacked planes.

In the absence of surviving passengers, this "corroborating evidence", was based on passengers' cell and air phone conversations with their loved ones. ...

Focusing on the personal drama of the passengers, the Commission has built much of its narrative around the phone conversations. The Arabs are portrayed with their knives and box cutters, scheming in the name of Allah, to bring down the planes and turn them "into large guided missiles" ...

[But] what this carefully drafted script, fails to mention is that, given the prevailing technology in September 2001, it was extremely difficult, if not impossible, to place a wireless cell call from an aircraft traveling at high speed above 8000 feet ...

While a few of these calls (placed at low altitude) could have got through, the wireless technology was not available. On this issue, expert opinion within the wireless telecom industry is unequivocal.

In other words, at least part of the Commission's script in Chapter 1 on the cell phone conversations, is fabricated.

I quote this altought it's pretty old news by now:

OnAir has partnered with the Airbus facility at Buxtehude to develop and seek certification for an airborne system for the commercial use of mobile phones on board aircraft.

"This airborne system is fundamental to OnAir’s business objective of making mobile phone use a reality on short and long haul flights for both Boeing and Airbus aircraft," said OnAir CEO, George Cooper, speaking at the opening of Aircraft Interiors Expo 2005 in Hamburg today.

The media whores cannot be unaware that several companies (during 2004-2005) have been working on making in-flight cellphone calls possible. And surely at least some of the media whores are sufficiently bright to understand that this implies that inflight cellphone calls were not possible on September 11, 2001. But do we hear a word about this from the media whores?

 

[citizenkhan]

As was shown above, the chance of a typical cellphone call from cruising altitude making it to ground and engaging a cellsite there is less than one in a hundred. To calculate the probability that two such calls will succeed involves elementary probability theory. The resultant probability is the product of the two probabilities, taken separately. In other words, the probability that two callers will succeed is less than one in ten thousand. In the case of a hundred such calls, even if a large majority fail, the chance of, say 13 calls getting through can only be described as infinitesimal. In operational terms, this means "impossible."

May I point out that Flight 93 never made it to cruising altitude? It was "approaching" cruising altitude at the time the hijacking, and once its direction was reversed the plane lost altitude at a steady rate until it crashed. Therefore, your argument is incomplete. This completes it: http://www.physics911.net/cellphoneflight93.htm

... cellphone calls from commercial aircraft much over 8000 feet are essentially impossible, while those below 8000 feet are highly unlikely down to about 2000, where they become merely unlikely. (Dewdney 2003)

So while the early calls (those which "occurred" around 9:00 AM, at which time the aircraft was roughly 30,000 ft up) were indeed impossible, there is a chance that calls made 20 minutes later were completed. But then there's the "cascade," or "handoff" problem:

... even at the latter altitude (and below), the handoff problem appears. Any airliner at or below this altitude, flying at the normal speed of approximately 500 mph, would encounter the handoff problem (Dewdney 2003). An aircraft traveling at this speed would not be over the cellsite long enough to complete the electronic "handshake" (which takes several seconds to complete) before arriving over the next cellsite, when the call has to be handed off from the first cellsite to the next one. This also takes a few seconds, the result being, in the optimal case, a series of broken transmissions that must end, sooner or later, in failure.

 

[citizenkhan]

By the way, if you have so much time and energy, why don't you spend it doing something valuable? You're just spouting off theories to a bunch of people who may feel like debating you but don't really seem to care a great deal. If you think you're some sort of amateur researcher with a valid argument, why waste your time babbling about it on a forum dedicated to Fallout geeks?

 

[Sovz]

But he does like genetically engineered weeds apparently...

those are the best --- as long as its "windex" free, its all good.

 

[keyser Soeze]

I really feel that there is something that don't add up in the 9/11 story.


I think the proof of the jet fule etc is hard for a "normal" person to grasp. This is very technical and because of this most people wont listen to it. Pretty normal reaction i would say. Instead of trying to understand something they don't know they dismiss it.

But one interesting fact here is that the man who constructed the building, made it a very ruff, (even to withstand a plane crash ).

He alls said in the first intervju after the "attack" that there was no way the building would collapse because of a plane ( or its fule ). A few days after he had made a total turn. Maybe to defend his reputation one might say, but then why didn't he do that at the first intervju?

Any way i really think the pentagon issue have some major and fairly easy flaws in its explanations.

I mean common how can a plain that big leave a small mark like that? Its really not very realistic to belief in it.
And also the cameras that cough the event was confiscated only minutes after the collision, common. Where they standing there waiting for something to happen or what...?
And also the plain hit on the exact spot where the pentagon had been reinforced, to withstand an attack just as the one we saw. coincidence? Sure it could have been, but how likely is that?

Btw wasn't the Iraq invasion planed before 9/11 also?

Sry for my bad grammer.

 

[Lazarus Plus]

helped greatly by a Zionist-dominated mainstream media

Zionist-dominated mainstream media?
Sorry pal, you just lost all of your credibility.
Zionist, pschyeah.

Now that I read this thread...

Yes, exactly what I was going to say. All your arguments are well-crafted, but when they are based on such faulty garbage as this... No thanks.

I agree with many things you say, but that's just taking the frigging cake.

 

[Dr. Jerkoholic]

After reviewing tons of materials I'm still more inclined to agree that a Boeing jetliner did indeed smash into the Pentagon, no matter how hard may it be to reconcile all the evidence. No other explanation seems to add up. Especially the one with the cruise missiles... geez.

Anyhow, here's a few pics for you to look at:

As you can see, some things don't add up - namely that there is no visible damage to the facade from wingtip impact, nor from the vertical stabilizer. Then there's the suspicous aproach angle, even stranger tilt, the damaged generator, the unscaved spools in front of the building, unexplained exit hole in ring C...

And here's the CCTV video capture of the alleged crash:

 

[gab0]

i wasn't serious about jews... it was just like every conspiration theory in the world (fakes, of course) that includes jews

down here we use both forms of writing date. I preffer DD-MM-YYYY

dr jerkoholic. I still don't believe that a plane crashed into the pentagon. I haven't seen any proof of that, and the pictures you posted aren't. Why there are NO debris of the airplane? why they haven't found the black box?

theoretically the hijackers were flying the plane, right? well i think that is very impossible to hit such target with a big, non-combat, hard to manouver. airplane. As you pointed, the building is only 71 feet tall.

and there's another question. How in the heck the us knew these people were from afghanistan? i also don't believe the story: "we found an abandoned car in the airport's parking lot with a letter on it, some luggage and a coran"

 

[Dr. Jerkoholic]

So gab0 what do you think happened to the Pentagon?

The on suspicous part to the story is that the airplane just happened to smash into the relatively vacant still under restoration heavily reinforced (steel bulkheads, kevlar armor skirts, blast proof 3 inches thick windows... were they turning it to a bunker?) section of the building. Thus the damage was much smaller than what could be expected, as was the death toll.

 

[SimpleMinded]

I've been watching this thread and I'm surprised no one has linked This

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5137581991288263801&q=loose+change

It *is* an conspiracy theory movie, it *is* propaganda and it is an hour and 20 min long. That being said, it is also an interesting watch, and asks some interesting questions. If you have the time, I suggest you watch it, regardless of if you believe in a conspiracy theory or not. I doubt it will sway your minds if you don't but as I said, it asks some interesting questions.

I just came to this thread to post about hte same video. It does address a lot of the points here and is pretty interesting. Lots of footage from the actual event and news clips that seem to vanish later on in the report. Really, Jerk should just cite the movie instead of trying to make points himself .

 

[Jarno Mikkola]

I heard that it was a helicopter that hit the Pentagon not a freaking airplane.

 

[bob_the_rambler]

Nope it was the crab people...........duh! geesh i though that it would be clear that only the crab people with the aid of martian invaders would be capable of pulling off such an attack.

 

[Lazarus Plus]

I heard that it was a helicopter that hit the Pentagon not a freaking airplane.

Where did you hear that? According to the government, a Boeing plane hit the Pentagon and was vaporized on impact....