Things Fallout 4 Got Right
- Thread starter Wasteland Wanderer
- Start date
Black Angel
Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus
You're taking it literally.....
ThatZenoGuy
Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism
Why use the term then? Unless its admitted to be a gross hyperbole.
A better term would be "Power armour should make me feel like I can ignore shrapnel and smaller rifle rounds".
Tawûsê
First time out of the vault
Just doesn't have quite the ring to it, to be honest.
MissNoir
First time out of the vault
Probably a broken, replayed to death response for what it got right, but I think Nick Valentine was one of the best companion characters I've ever seen.
His backstory was interesting, and his dilemma of whether or not he wass his own person or just a paste and copy of someone else was rather thought provoking.
Though, I must admit to being a bit bias because I'm a sucker for the old noir films and Nick pretty much just stepped right out of one.;3
His backstory was interesting, and his dilemma of whether or not he wass his own person or just a paste and copy of someone else was rather thought provoking.
Though, I must admit to being a bit bias because I'm a sucker for the old noir films and Nick pretty much just stepped right out of one.;3
maximaz
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Gravedigging a little bit here but I just got to really playing Fallout 4 so... (oh and hi everyone)
It's highly debatable also what it means for something to feel like an extension of one's body. What makes you assume that it's "like nothing at all"?
A massive, heavy machine cannot possibly be worn without notice, can it? Per Fallout bible, power armor was supposed to be a "man-based tank - essentially, a two-legged walking armored unit". 51b was highly advanced and a lot more mobile than the original but not 'yoga pants' levels of mobile. I think it's not unreasonable to say it's a walking tank, of sorts.
Purely in terms of presentation, Bethesda actually did quite a good job, dare I say, with power armor, this time around. It feels advanced and powerful (although it really isn't unfortunately) and looks fantastic. I've even had a good chuckle, watching my 51b-clad toon in 3rd person having a similar running animation to what it was like in FO1/2. If you are in the mood to nitpick, you'll find issues though.
Overall, I'd say that the art department stepped things way up for F4. Things are not perfect, not completely accurate to Fallout (whatever that means today), don't always make sense, but as an eternal fan of the originals and hater of everything Fallout 3, I'd go as far as pat them on the back for putting in a very respectable effort and that's my honest opinion, and fuck you, I'm sticking to it. (not you personally, zenoguy)
That's the art direction though. Having said that, I really hate the way power armor is handled in the game overall. I get what they were going for and why they decided to provide it so early. They wanted to make it a relationship, rather than a prize, with the player taking care of it and tinkering with it and keeping it in their garage, like a dude and his car thing. There is something to that idea but it ultimately doesn't really feel that way in the game and now the whole PA concept just no longer feels special. The biggest change is that there is a shit ton of power armors all over the place and every bum seems to be wearing one to a random roof barbecue (and training is again no longer required?). Also, it has so many disadvantages that it's just too much bother from a gameplay perspective. They make a good decoration for a settlement and that's about it.
Before I forget, I must call the art people out for the insane music (not the radio but the 'ambient' game music). It's the first time I ever actually turned in-game music completely off. It sounds like they wanted to do a Mark Morgan but didn't allow enough time for the speed to wear off. It's distracting as shit, just aggressively blasting that ambiance into you, as you struggle to get some atmosphere feels. It's fucking ridiculous.
Going back to the overabundance of shit, that is really my main gripe with the game. The world feels like a massive modern day (for the setting) junkyard, as opposed to ancient ruins, which would be more appropriate. We have real life cities in the world today that look emptier and more devastated from regular wars than Bethesda's take on what's supposed to be an apocalypse. Although I honestly like the designs of the buildings and structures, the cities should have been hollow, dusty, husks, with metals rusted all to shit, wood rotten, occasional odd intact pieces of the old world under layers of dust, save for seldom purportedly preserved locations, or cities that are just completely razed and rebuilt, looking something like San Francisco in F2.
Overall, I'd say that a lot of stuff has improved from Fallout 3 and NV (though some things were better in NV ) but nearly everything has to come with some problem in a Bethesda game. I really don't understand it. At the very least, things are massively uneven. You've got some well done memorable characters, like valentine, the silver shroud nerd, hancock, etc., and then you've got the fucking minutemen and the railroad and that piece of shit preston garvey (I've never been as startled upon turning around and seeing anything behind me in a video game as I have with this fucking guy and his bullshit). How is he one of the first main characters you meet? I enjoy the game in small doses but I'm old now, I like decorating and collecting.
ThatZenoGuy
Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism
Except we get told exactly from users of the armour that it feels like an extension of the body, you must learn to make it act like its a part of you to wear it, at least effectively.
T51b, at most, stops .308 rounds, and i'm going to be nice and assume they mean AP rounds.
That's not 'walkng tank', but its a lot better than what we have, considering its 100% coverage.
The First game already shows us how it is, it is nothing at all:
Fallout 1 Intro, 46 seconds in.
Notice how the soldiers move in Power Armor exactly like they would move without any armor at all, look how natural their movements are that you can see one laugh inside the armor and the armor reacts just like the person inside it, and the other soldier move his arms and even wave at the camera like he wasn't riding a Mech. The movements are natural and fluid.
EDIT: Also, What they mean by a Tank is that it offers a high degree of protection, not that it is a vehicle. Power Armor is made of lightweight poly-laminate composite, no tank is made of that, we can see tanks in Fallout 4 (they even have two cannons for some reason) and they don't seem to be made of the same thing as the Power Armors.
Remember, the only reason T-51 was developed, was because T-45 was too cumbersome, soldiers complained it was harder to be mobile enough for the war front while invading China, they had been bogged down for a while, so scientists developed T-51 so they could become even more mobile (and they were so mobile that soldiers could even jump now, and no, it wasn't using Jetpacks like in Fallout 4, they could jump like a human can).
In all games (including Fallout 3) anyone in Power Armor behaves like they aren't inside a Mech. That's 7 different games (yes, even FOBoS and damn Fallout Shelter) showing us that Power Armor behaves naturally with the wearer's movements, like he was just wearing light clothes... So I don't think it is highly debatable when we can see Power Armor at works in all games ever made... And only Fallout 4 goes against it.
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maximaz
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Ah the good old reading comprehension of nma. Almost makes me feel nostalgic for when we discussed the shittiness of power armor in Fallout 3 almost ten years ago.
"Except" to what? Did you read this:
How are you understanding "an extension of the body" as "it feels like nothing at all" in the quotes you've provided or at all? You seem to have an odd tendency to take things extremely literally, hence your problem with the 'walking tank' comparison, even though those exact words are used in FB. Have you never heard of things being described as a walking tank, that don't look like an actual tank on two feet?
Plus, again, the character in F4 controls exactly the same with or without the PA on, except for the different UI, sounds, and the walk, which all makes complete and utter sense, if only for the fact that PA makes you much bulkier (back in F1/F2 too).
Hi there. Yes, I've seen that video. Nobody in it moves naturally, including the guy in regular clothes. I wouldn't use it to argue how PA should feel. Most importantly, you can move in F4's PA exactly how you move without it, except for walking, which again, makes complete sense (notice how big they are in that video? his walk looks completely normal to you? Also btw, you know that you can jump in F4's PA without jetpacks, right? ). What exactly is the issue? It doesn't shake enough when you laugh (which was done in the intro to make up for no audio)?
And again with taking 'walking tank' literally. Yea, I'm sure Power Armor is not made of the same material as an actual tank, lol, wtf? Neither is probably Master Chief from Halo who is often described as a walking tank.
Also, anything, since Fallout left Black Isle, is all over the place when it comes to lore and consistency. In Fallout 3 and NV, you had to get special training to use it or to even put it on. You didnt in F1/F2. What exactly did you see in 7 games? As I mentioned in the previous post, T-51 was more mobile than T-45, which doesn't describe exactly how it feels and that's all we really ever known, and everything else is a guess. Bethesda have broken a whole bunch of "rules" with PA in F4 but the feel and look of PA are the best elements of it. Like I said though, if you are in the mood to nitpick, you'll find issues.
Prone Squanderer
A bit of a Sillius Soddus.
The only thing that makes PA in Fallout 4 in any way like a mech is that you enter it from behind instead of it magically appearing on you. You can still jump with, you can run and walk with it, no trouble at all. Your sounds change, but that's about it. And I guess the sounds make wearing PA feel more "weighty" and powerful than before, but the animations still look pretty damn fluid and natural to me. It's none of that Aliens-Powerloader-Exoskeleton nonsense for sure.
If any of you consider moving in Fallout 4 power armor fluid and natural, then I don't know how to convince you... You move like if you were walking underwater... Sluggish...
In all the other games you move, walk, run at the same speed (or the same speed you walk and run in any heavy armor, like metal armor). That is seen in all 7 games before Fallout 4. You even jump and fall sluggish, like you fall slower when in power armor for some reason.
In all the other games you move, walk, run at the same speed (or the same speed you walk and run in any heavy armor, like metal armor). That is seen in all 7 games before Fallout 4. You even jump and fall sluggish, like you fall slower when in power armor for some reason.
ThatZenoGuy
Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism
Also...Exposed Fusion Cores.
Am I the only one who thinks that even Pre-War humanity wasn't THAT stupid? Yet alone the fucking enclave?
The Fusion Core should logically be behind some of the toughest armour on the damned chassis.
Oh and the power armours shouldn't even fucking NEED civilian grade fusion cores, does the army insert car fuel tanks into their tanks to make them work?
Ridiculous.
Am I the only one who thinks that even Pre-War humanity wasn't THAT stupid? Yet alone the fucking enclave?
The Fusion Core should logically be behind some of the toughest armour on the damned chassis.
Oh and the power armours shouldn't even fucking NEED civilian grade fusion cores, does the army insert car fuel tanks into their tanks to make them work?
Ridiculous.
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Zerginfestor
dear god, the scrapping
It's mostly to cut on costs for unique animation, since all of them have the same retarded 'shove core into back and slam it in' motion. Logic wise, you wouldn't even see the fusion core outside, and would probably be within the chassis/sides/back of the torso armor and thus a bit harder to get at/damaged. Person would have to at least have an understanding of Car Mechanics to get a good feel at where they would be placed, whereas a normal person would probably have no fucking idea how to get that shit installed and operational (for good fucking reason, you don't want to make high tech power armor so fucking simple in design, an idiot could switch it on).
ThatZenoGuy
Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism
Ahh yes, Bethesda's laziness. ;D
How about how you can just attach parts of any model of Power Armor together? Power Armor, the pinnacle of advanced military technology of pre-war... Now even raiders can make their own power armor and you can attach those parts to parts of any other PA... One size fits all...
Or how a raider with a switchblade can damage your Power Armor, but you can fall from the Prydwen or the top of tall buildings and it takes no damage.
Or how a raider with a switchblade can damage your Power Armor, but you can fall from the Prydwen or the top of tall buildings and it takes no damage.
ThatZenoGuy
Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism
Yeah, that pisses me off when we know in canon T51b uses hydraulics, whereas 45 uses servos.
The fusion cores were a stupid balancing element. I wouldn't have minded them if there would have been different PA frames that work differently. Like, in the beginning you get the T45 frame that requires these fusion cores/energy cells/whatever, and that frame only takes T45 armor parts. Then you get the T60 frame, which is a BoS-improved T45 frame with higher mobility and better power efficiency (or maybe a retrofitted internal reactor), then you get the T51 frame which has an internal reactor wit unlimited fuel (maybe add the need to refuel that 200 year old reactor before first using an old frame you found lying around, though), and then the X-01 frame.
One has to say that in that video above the player never actually runs at full speed.
Also, I wouldn't give too much on the fact that PA never used to mess with the animations. In the classic Fallouts it was complicated to make vastly different animations for the characters, and little differences can't really be seen in an isometric perspective. And let's face it, the running animation in Fallout 1/2 with the armor on looks goofy as shit. As for the intro, well, it's overanimation necessary to deliver the message of the scene, and it's necessary because the overall graphic fidelity of the scene is quite low. Wouldn't read too much from it.
In Fallout 3 and NV PA is treated as normal plate armor, which makes it look all skinny and weak (which, if I remember correctly, was one of many criticisms people had about them).
I like how Fallout 4 added some bulk and weight to the feel of the armor, but I disagree that it makes it too much like a mecha sort of thing. But as I said, the whole PA thing could have been much better and more in-depth...
One has to say that in that video above the player never actually runs at full speed.
Also, I wouldn't give too much on the fact that PA never used to mess with the animations. In the classic Fallouts it was complicated to make vastly different animations for the characters, and little differences can't really be seen in an isometric perspective. And let's face it, the running animation in Fallout 1/2 with the armor on looks goofy as shit. As for the intro, well, it's overanimation necessary to deliver the message of the scene, and it's necessary because the overall graphic fidelity of the scene is quite low. Wouldn't read too much from it.
In Fallout 3 and NV PA is treated as normal plate armor, which makes it look all skinny and weak (which, if I remember correctly, was one of many criticisms people had about them).
I like how Fallout 4 added some bulk and weight to the feel of the armor, but I disagree that it makes it too much like a mecha sort of thing. But as I said, the whole PA thing could have been much better and more in-depth...
ThatZenoGuy
Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism
Balancing wouldn't be an issue if enemies were actually competent, power armour was actually hard to aquire, and perhaps maintaining it was hard. ;P
Frankly I've heard that before from some Bethesda fans, not saying you're one, but it pisses me off.
"Tee hee, I've got 20 power armour suits, the fusion cores are just for balancing"
WHY THE FUCK ARE POWER ARMOUR SUITS BEING DISPENSED LIKE CANDY THEN!?
