Trump wins

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Throatpunch, Nov 9, 2016.

  1. Supreme Shah Ismail

    Supreme Shah Ismail Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    422
    Sep 17, 2016
    Lmao Walpknut vs Anime avatars

    Anyway I do think Vergil did take it too far in some instances. Its rather obvious he was pretty deep into the Neo Nazi edglelord ideology. (He seemed to like my Aryan/Iranian identity too much) He sounded a lot like someone you would meet on fucking rpg codex.

    I'm sure he said a lot of things purely for shits n giggles, I know I can sometimes say something purely as a joke. But it be nice if we could refrain from calling people faggots and denying the holocaust.
     
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  2. Supreme Shah Ismail

    Supreme Shah Ismail Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    422
    Sep 17, 2016
    I have noticed some people with a alt right slant here on the site so thats not really surprising.
     
  3. Ilosar

    Ilosar Vault Fossil

    Apr 20, 2010
    I didn't know he was an actual Holocaust denier. I strongly suspected he was a racist, but not that much. If so, good riddance.
     
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  4. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Am I happy about this? Yes and no... the biggest Nazi supporter here is gone, meaning that as the biggest Stalin supporter I would be next...
     
  5. Ragemage

    Ragemage Wept for Zion

    Feb 20, 2016
    Sorry to say, but you have had a few anger spells yourself. Like this gem from September:

    You just called people fags right there, not to mention telling people who believe in Trump's ideals to kill themselves. Not to be mean but you're an Admin now despite saying things like this while he's banned. Is this not the same sort of stuff Vergil was banned for? You can say you aren't calling out specific people all you want, but it's pretty clear who you're talking about. Popularity shouldn't omit him from the rules but at the same time he really hasn't broken it more than anyone else. I can dig up quotes from pretty much every single person here saying a slur or something-another more than likely.

    "For clarity's sake: Vergil wasn't banned for the joke in this thread. He was banned for spamming Sieg Heil, Hitler Jugend & Swastikas in profile posts, although he already received 2 prior warnings to watch his behavior. If saying "Sieg Heil" or whatever is a retort to some joke or an attempt at being funny in a certain context, that's totally fine by me. But randomly spamming it in other people's profile etc is just stupid if you were already warned before." - @SuAside

    ^ That right there is what Vergil was specifically banned for according to another Admin, and as we already established, Vergil WAS doing it was a retort and as a joke on Crossfire's profile, because they're friends and they make Nazi jokes with one another. Maybe a little distasteful but that's the humor they're into, it didn't happen on a public forum and it certainly didn't happen on the profile of someone Vergil is enemies with.

    For that matter, in regards to "Holocaust Denial", is this what you're referring to?


    Because he's clearly saying that SARCASTICALLY in response to Serifan's post. That doesn't = him believing the Holocaust didn't happen.
     
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  6. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    No, Vergil has indeed argued that the Holocaust is fake. He's offered long post of 'evidence' to support it and argued against others about it. Sorry, but Vergil does indeed think the Holocaust is fake.
     
  7. Ragemage

    Ragemage Wept for Zion

    Feb 20, 2016
    Well silly me, I thought we needed actual evidence to back up our claims. Here I am digging through months-old threads to find quotes and point out why Vergil being banned is silly, but apparently we'll just take your word that he posted tons of evidence showing he denied the Holocaust. Could you actually find some of that? I'm most curious to see it.

    Because I remember him arguing about the Holocaust too, but I remember him arguing that Holocaust deniers should not be jailed. He was basically saying that people should not be thrown in jail for denying the Holocaust because what's the point in that? All it does is give Holocaust deniers an edge. They'll look at the people being thrown in jail for denouncing the Holocaust and say "Oh, well look! People are being thrown in jail instead of debated or given an explanation as to how the Holocaust happened! Clearly we're right!" It's along the same lines as how people will constantly call deniers of Global Warming "retarded" and dismiss their claims entirely instead of actually having a debate. It just leads to more denial. The evidence he posted was meant to show how it's stupid to jail people for simply asking questions and having concerns about a big controversial issue like this.
     
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  8. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Was there any possibility for Suaside to actually know that it was some kind of 'joke' between those two? Particularly when Verge received already 2 warnings?

    Like other users already said, yes, pretty much everyone who's been long enough on NMA, had times where he had some kind of 'rage post', maybe even throwing one or two insults around - The Order doesn't count though, it's clearly not NMA territory. And yes, many of us got a nudge by the mods in such cases, that we should cool down and watch our words. Seriously, this topic alone, had Hass posting it TWICE(!) to tone it down. The point is, when you get repeated warnings, then it simply might happen that you get ... banned, I know, a novell idea banning people on a forum! But that's how it goes. This is not a democracy. And strange enough, this isn't the first time such a discussion pops up. Omg! The moderators are fascist bastards for opressing free speech! You know, the trick is to know that when you crossed a line, that you should really start to calm down and actually start to become a member of this community, that is contributing more then just assholery. Some people can do it, some can't. And I am actually not surprised that a lot of 'new members', struggle with this concept and defend Vergil.

    At this point, I really understand why most forums have this policy, that bans are not discussed like this, someone always feels that it's not 'fair. If you people feel that a mistake happend here, why not taking it to the moderators directly? Personal messages do exist. Star a conversation, invite Planhex, Sua and who ever else you think has a part into this, and see how it goes.
     
  9. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    You're right, Vergil never outright stated he believed in Holocaust denial, and he did argue that jailing people who didn't believe in the Holocaust was stupid (I agree on that count), but he also argued for Holocaust denial because he thought that it had large gaps and wasn't clear cut as people think. This seems pretty innocent, and personally I think it is, buuuuut it looks very convenient for a Holocaust denier to peddle their beliefs WITHOUT being outright banned because the 'disclaimer' that they don't believe it and it's just food for thought... Here's the quote and here's a link to the page http://www.nma-fallout.com/threads/wheee-i-can-move-posts-around.207794/page-2.
     
  10. Ragemage

    Ragemage Wept for Zion

    Feb 20, 2016
    Normally I would agree, but he is literally using all of that evidence to show that there's a lot of stuff out there that can potentially support denying the Holocaust. We shouldn't be locking people up for pointing these out, it needs to be the job of places like the Holocaust Memorial Foundation to expound on these big chunks of evidence and disprove them. Locking people up isn't helping anything. Which is exactly what I said he was arguing. Here's the disclaimer he put at the end in full:

    "NOW WAIT JUST A MINUTE BEFORE YOU RESPOND!

    I'm not saying I necessarily believe all of this, I'm just saying theres a lot of questions and gaps for some reasonable doubt and making it illegal to ask these questions and criminalizing curiosity does nothing but breed more distrust and a further affirmation that the denier is right. This policy of censorship does absolutely no good to either side of the argument.

    Also if a mod wants to move this it's own thread go ahead but I've pretty much said my piece on this." -Vergil

    Ergo, he DOES believe in the Holocaust, but he's saying there's a lot of proof out there for the opposition to use, and that it needs to be addressed rather than throwing the people who espouse it in a cell to rot, which just breeds more deniers. Just because he did his homework doesn't make him a denier, it makes him smart for trying to see both sides of the issue.
     
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  11. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Yes I know, it shows that Vergil doesn't necessarily support Holocaust denial, but one can make a reasonable hypothesis guessing that perhaps Vergil does support Holocaust denial and uses the disclaimer to argue for his beliefs without being banned. Vergil should clear it all up when he returns.
     
  12. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Level 27 Wizard Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005
    Absolutely. I've been temp-banned years ago for posting stupid shit (and called a pussy by Brother None for complaining about the admins) too, now I try to keep spambots from face-fucking our monitors and keep this place alive any little way I can, including Black Market organ deals and Nigerian Slum Lord Email scams. I've been on NMA since I was 18, so I have quite the history and Suaside himself didn't want my ass on the Admin team due to my potential volatility (Roshambo reincarnated), but I do see reason. I care about this place a lot, and I generally like to get along with people whether they agree or not.

    I wasn't angry at anyone in particular in that comment though, nor wanting people to literally kill themselves - which I think some might interpret from my delivery if they don't know me. Also I didn't mean faggot as in denigrating homosexuals (no-no), more like the 90's version I grew up with which is to say, "Hey quit being a faggot and get off my lawn."

    I understand why it happened is all I am saying. There is a big difference. Using the occasional racial slur here won't get you banned, nor will having a lovers spat with a local NMA/tO butt buddy...It's repeated nonsense that does it. The problem isn't with people calling each other names really it's with unchecked belligerence/nonsense that doesn't have respect for the rules or order.
     
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  13. Supreme Shah Ismail

    Supreme Shah Ismail Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    422
    Sep 17, 2016
    Regardless, most people should be wary of someone who aligns themselves so closely to Neo Nazism.

    This is not an implication someone IS a Nazi or believes exactly what Nazis believe but it is concerning at most.

    Also ive been pissed off on forums (im too new to NMA as a proper user for anything like that but ive been lurking on the forum for years) and sometimes say stupid or childish shit.

    We all get angry, what vergil did is not like that.
     
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  14. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Level 27 Wizard Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005
    Agreed. It's like an indicator of possible concern. If you don't want to attract attention and aren't a troll then why have a giant Nazi avatar and post nothing but nationalistic Hitler shit?
     
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  15. Supreme Shah Ismail

    Supreme Shah Ismail Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    422
    Sep 17, 2016
    From my experience on the inter webs and off some people legitimately believe that sorta of crap. They may back peddle abit or attempt to make it seem like a joke but deep down you can tell imo. If you probe them about certain things you can tell what they really feel deep down.
     
  16. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Level 27 Wizard Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005
    Which is where the distinction comes into play...Are they playing a role, parroting talking points, or is there a fully functional human being in there?

    My admin powers are weak or I would split this stuff too.
     
  17. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Vergil is not a Nazi, he's too moderate for the National Socialist Party but he has some sympathy to them. It's what I believe, because I really, really hope he isn't some try-hard edgy teen trying to not fit in.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2016
  18. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Level 27 Wizard Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005
    I don't think so either. Nationalistic views are popular right now.
     
  19. Ragemage

    Ragemage Wept for Zion

    Feb 20, 2016
    Right, exactly, for posting some stupid shit. So why exactly can't Vergil be temp-banned instead of permanently banned? Temp-banning is perfectly understandable but a perma-ban for what we've established in the last 5 pages is basically a fluke?

    Right, so how do you know Vergil isn't using "faggot" and things like that in this same context? "Oh, it's how I grew up with the word!" Come on Toront, that's like me saying "The word uppity isn't a racist term, where I grew up everyone I know uses it!" Which is true, and I still don't see uppity as a racist word, but guess what? The rest of America disagrees with me, and I accept that. Let's also not forget Vergil is a "faggot" himself, he's bisexual with a preference towards men.
     
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  20. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Wait, he was perma-banned? Umm... okay.