Trump wins

(an NY times summary of it http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/12/world/europe/russia-trump-election-cia-fbi.html?_r=0)

And I am Norwegian. Our population is 5 million by now, which makes for a rather small army. Hell, the full Russian military is the size of half our entire population. One soldier per two Norwegians.

Our military infrastructure is entirely based on mountainous terrain though, it's the only thing we have on our side. Even in WW2, compared to most European invasions, Norway took a long time to fully control, all due to terrain. We hadn't even fully mobilized, at that, and from the start, many military units saw resistance as futile. Had they put "all in", the Germans would have been bogged down in the freezing mountains for much longer.

We would - most likely - have to surrender eventually though. Like I said, small country, not a lot we can do against a super-power, at the end of the day.
 
Dr Fallout said:
Why would Russia even invade Norway, what's the damn point? Are they in NATO?
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Yes... thats exactly the point, and the only point :D
Hell, USSR gave back occupied Finnmark (after expelling the Germans from there) - as the ONLY conquered territory they gave back without a single demand, a clear cut hand-over. They made no intention to pursue south once the Germans were on the run. USSR and/or Russia has no interest in Norway

but - we are a founding nation inside NATO, with a coast-line that basically lets you own the Atlantic ocean. This was why Britain planned to invade us during WW2, and why Germany rushed to beat them to it, and why USSR ammassed a mindboggling ammount of tanks on the Finnmark border during an incident at the end of the Cold war - and... why Russia would seek to swiftly take over and control Norway, should a Russia-NATO showdown ever happen. It would paralyze large part of the Atlantic, in favor of Russia.
 
Dr Fallout said:
Oh, so we should invade you then.

Well... Tank vs Norwegian Ski Troops. Who will win?
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Have fun driving your tanks up the mountainsides :Y
Russia would win, eventually, but we have the conditions to pull off some real pain in the ass insurgency. The Germans struggled with our shenanigans for the entirety of the war. Called us "terrorists"
They made a movie about the more humanistic of the "cells"
They made no movies, no statues, no mentions, no comemorations, of the hard-line guys, who sat Germans down on their knees, and shot them in the neck
:(
 
zegh8578 said:
Have fun driving your tanks up the mountainsides :Y
Russia would win, eventually, but we have the conditions to pull off some real pain in the ass insurgency. The Germans struggled with our shenanigans for the entirety of the war. Called us "terrorists"
They made a movie about the more humanistic of the "cells"
They made no movies, no statues, no mentions, no comemorations, of the hard-line guys, who sat Germans down on their knees, and shot them in the neck
:(
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Why ride, when you can fly!
300px-AntonovA40.jpg
 
Dr Fallout said:
Why ride, when you can fly!
300px-AntonovA40.jpg
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Something makes me suspect that that particular method of delivery might not be the most resource efficient way of doing things
I just imagined a thick Russian accent, confidently explaining "No, no, no parachute. Tank is very strong!"
 
R.Graves said:
It was 70 years ago...
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So? There are veterans still alive from that war.

Hell, my great grandfather came back from that war a changed man and so did my other one on the other side of the family, it certainly left it's effects.
 
Dr Fallout said:
What war? The Russo-Finnish war?
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He's talking about WW2
Wich also includes the Winter war, if you want to be specific

As well as the Continuation war

and the Lapland war, where Finland turned on their former German allies, and expelled them from the north. Man, those Finns were on fire!
 
zegh8578 said:
and the Lapland war, where Finland turned on their former German allies, and expelled them from the north. Man, those Finns were on fire!
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Yeah sure, more like the Finns saw a sinking ship and wanted out, by force if necessary. That's like Estonia bravely fighting against the damn Russians in the war of Independence, those damned Russians were also fighting each other and other independence movements and interventionists.
 
Dr Fallout said:
Yeah sure, more like the Finns saw a sinking ship and wanted out, by force if necessary. That's like Estonia bravely fighting against the damn Russians in the war of Independence, those damned Russians were also fighting each other and other independence movements and interventionists.
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Again, small nations gotta work with what they got. You don't expect them to just roll over, do you?
I applaud their sense of oportunism, especially when being attacked in the first place.
The Winter war is the best example, the rest of WW2 is an unholy mess, but Winter war was USSR simply land-grabbing, wanting to rebuild the Russian Empire. Of course the Finns have every right to respectfully disagree, and when invaded, they have every right to withstand for any reason. If the reason is USSR incompetence (sending a bunch of kazakhs and other central asians to arctic warfare) then good for the Finns!
 
zegh8578 said:
Again, small nations gotta work with what they got. You don't expect them to just roll over, do you?
I applaud their sense of oportunism, especially when being attacked in the first place.
The Winter war is the best example, the rest of WW2 is an unholy mess, but Winter war was USSR simply land-grabbing, wanting to rebuild the Russian Empire. Of course the Finns have every right to respectfully disagree, and when invaded, they have every right to withstand for any reason. If the reason is USSR incompetence (sending a bunch of kazakhs and other central asians to arctic warfare) then good for the Finns!
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No, I just consider their independence without any right or reason, and only resulted due to the harsh demands of the Germans. The USSR had every right to invade and reclaim, not land grab, their former territories. They have no right to disagree as they were literally formed out of an enemy's forceful threats and measures. They were forced into existence against the will of the Russians.
 
Dr Fallout said:
No, I just consider their independence without any right or reason, and only resulted due to the harsh demands of the Germans. The USSR had every right to invade and reclaim, not land grab, their former territories. They have no right to disagree as they were literally formed out of an enemy's forceful threats and measures. They were forced into existence against the will of the Russians.
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All rebellion is against the will of their masters.
That is how a majority of nations are formed, in some way or other, even seemingly peaceful independences are granted under the threat of future disaray. Had Finland hypothetically not taken advantage of the Russian civil war, which in itself was against the will of lots of people (the USSR was against the will of all the "Whites"), it would have continued to resist. It would have been another Chechnya, with much more capacity, and a lot more land to patrol.

These are unavoidable things. Also, Russia took Finland from Sweden, who did not approve.

Again, almost all territorial boundaries happen without the approval of an opposing party.
 
But Finland never actually got it's independence through rebellion, or it's own actions. It was gifted independence by the Germans, and the decision was forced onto the Russians. That's what makes it different to other rebellious states or states that won their war of independence. They did it themselves where as Estonia, Finland and others were made solely by Germany. Which is why some Russians consider them false states.
 
Dr Fallout said:
But Finland never actually got it's independence through rebellion, or it's own actions. It was gifted independence by the Germans, and the decision was forced onto the Russians. That's what makes it different to other rebellious states or states that won their war of independence. They did it themselves where as Estonia, Finland and others were made solely by Germany. Which is why some Russians consider them false states.
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Either way, USSR had their chance at re-conquest, and they failed. They are welcome to try again any time, but they will have to deal with things as they are. Finland aren't even in NATO, they're sitting ducks. So what exactly is holding Russia back? Well, reality, most likely. Finland has an exceptionally large manpower pool of reserve forces, and have landmined the hell out of their borders.
Again, it's a power game, and Finland - using whatever means - out-powered USSR/Russia

As a neighbor, a "brother-folk" and a general supporter of under-dogs, I'm sorry, but you're not gonna see much other than support for them, from me :D
 
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