Tyranny Discussion Thread

[CerberusGate]

With the amount of choices you get in the Conquest section alone, I'm hoping to see deviations in terms of interaction and options in every playthrough. I'll probably try to be a mix of Thrawn and Scorpius in my first playthrough, serving my liege while being a benevolent evil to those under my influence like rewarding creativity and innovation unless they choose to betray the cause without remorse.

Why bow to the will of some jumpstart lordling who only became so powerful because he/she basically has the ability to fart nuclear bombs at will?

What better reason is there to serve someone that can fart nuclear bombs at will? Many cities would rather surrender or fall to the armies of the Overlord rather than face an Edict of Kyros. Having an army is nothing if an Edict befalls upon the very soil they stand on.

 

[Dr Fallout]

A finest Form of unbroken warrior caste, no need for levies degenerate and poor farmer; left them to feed people and kyros subject instead. tell that to your clown archon, how to treat his warrior like lovely chosen born as graven ashe did. Everyone get their own prosperity, as like what kyros originally wish. (heh, caste system doesnt feel bad so far )

The Voices of Nerat doesn't do that... he forces those he conquers to either die or join him. It's beautiful, because it can run on and on as long as it has momentum.

 

[eissa]

benevolent evil

i doubt if those could ever mix....

 

[CerberusGate]

i doubt if those could ever mix....

Well, you'd be surprised on how well those could mix. It's why there are villains that follow tropes like Father to their Men, Benevolent Boss, Noble Demon, Anti-Villain, Villain Respect and Affably Evil.

Not only can the aforesaid villains inspire genuine loyalty and respect from their followers (and prevent betrayals from forming due to job satisfaction), it makes the heroes seem less credible in opposing the villains. After all, why should my enemies oppose me when I appear to be a benevolent individual who does empathize with the situation and only just happens to oppose them?

 

[eissa]

Well, you'd be surprised on how well those could mix. It's why there are villains that follow tropes like Father to their Men, Benevolent Boss, Noble Demon, Anti-Villain, Villain Respect and Affably Evil.

Not only can the aforesaid villains inspire genuine loyalty and respect from their followers (and prevent betrayals from forming due to job satisfaction), it makes the heroes seem less credible in opposing the villains. After all, why should my enemies oppose me when I appear to be a benevolent individual who does empathize with the situation and only just happens to oppose them?

then they're not evil, at least morally misunderstood perhaps, but not evil. Both anti-villain and affably evil are more about how these individual seems to be friendly than what you picture out from a supposed evil character, nothing to do with their being 'benelovent'. But you could provide your own expnation and example too i just dont think it could be mixed as far of the definition of the tropes itself go.

 

[CerberusGate]

then they're not evil, at least morally misunderstood perhaps, but not evil. Both anti-villain and affably evil are more about how these individual seems to be friendly than what you picture out from a supposed evil character, nothing to do with their being 'benelovent'. But you could provide your own expnation and example too i just dont think it could be mixed as far of the definition of the tropes itself go.

Well from the top of my head, I can name (and I'm not even kidding here) Ecliptor and Villamax from Power Rangers (In Space and Lost Galaxy respectively) as villains with some form of nobility and virtue. While they are willing to do evil (and have done a lot of harm to the Rangers and whatever place they are in), they have a code of honour in their actions. This does not mean that they would get in the way of their master's plans if it opposes said code (since those characters do follow the destructive orders of their masters without much question) but rather it means that they practice some form of virtue while doing evil (like fulfilling their ends of a bargain in exchange for a completed favour or honouring the rules of engagement when duelling a ranger in single combat).

I guess the kind of evil I'm referring to when it comes to benevolent evil is more akin to the Noble Demon with a touch of Even Evil Has Standards; while having an atrocious goal in mind (though in Tyranny, it is mentioned that life was not much better before Kyros so maybe the goals of Kyros may not be as bad for their world), the methods to achieving them will have some form of morals and virtue to them.

 

[Risewild]

You're all "joining this and joining that", I will (if possible) forge my own faction and make others join ME instead. I will bend Kyros to my will and if that is not possible I will exterminate him/her and anything else that will get in my way!
You're all wusses.

 

[eissa]

#TEAM KYROS

 

[Crni Vuk]

then they're not evil, at least morally misunderstood perhaps, but not evil. Both anti-villain and affably evil are more about how these individual seems to be friendly than what you picture out from a supposed evil character, nothing to do with their being 'benelovent'. But you could provide your own expnation and example too i just dont think it could be mixed as far of the definition of the tropes itself go.

THis kinda comes down to the question of what is 'good' and what is 'evil', since they are artifical constructions.

 

[eissa]

i'm sure not every villain feels good when they doing evil things, unless amoral, villain ussually have excuse why those horrible need to be done.

 

[Crni Vuk]

With fictional characters or from a real live point of view, with actuall people?

We live in a very complex world and classifications of purely white or black areas is usually never doing it full justice. But it sure helps us as people I mean, or we would go completely nuts if we NEVER tried to simplfy it. But it's still a world, in where convicting someone, without a trial, judges and a chance to defend them self is seen as 'evil' or at least as amoral, but at the same time a President can give out the order to kill a man who's demed as a terrorist, as the majority of the people see it as justifiable, infact a politican might even brag about it that their decision took them down. I am not saying this, because of hypocrisy, beacuse that's not the point. It's just that people are usually complex, and so are their decisions. We often see something as evil, but when it comes to us we tend to rationalise. Of course, no sane human would let a child starve to death, yet we have no problem in supporting companies that eventually contribute to it. Of course, we don't engange in conflicts, but we support politicans that trough their actions eventually provoke conflicts. Of course, we don't kill innocent people, but collateral damage is a part of military actions.

What is evil? What is good? Of course everyone will find rational reasons for their decisions and arguments that strengthen their position. This is true for every human being who's not mentaily ill or something. Khrushchev didn't want war, Kennedy didn't want war. And yet, it almost happend. They lucked out in the end!

I mean, for example in the mind of someone like Fidel Castro, using Russias nuclear weapons in the case the US attacked Cuba and thus starting a nuclear war which would have killed millions if not billions of people, was completely justifable. And I am pretty sure, that he didn't saw himself even for one moment as the 'evil' guy here.

We might divide the world in good and evil trough our language, and we might even believe it, but we do not live in such a world.

 

[Ragemage]

snip

Clearly you didn't read my post then because I plan to do the exact same thing you want. Also yes, it's been confirmed that we will be able to go Independent ala New Vegas and make our own faction. How this works we aren't sure yet however. It's gotten the least coverage of the 4 known paths (Scarlet Chorus, Disfavored, Rebellion, and Independent).

 

[SuAside]

benevolent evil: i doubt if those could ever mix....

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
― C.S. Lewis

 

[Dr Fallout]

Clearly you didn't read my post then because I plan to do the exact same thing you want. Also yes, it's been confirmed that we will be able to go Independent ala New Vegas and make our own faction. How this works we aren't sure yet however. It's gotten the least coverage of the 4 known paths (Scarlet Chorus, Disfavored, Rebellion, and Independent).

I don't see how it would work though... Kyros can blow you to kingdom come with the click of his fingers... not to forget his armies OUTSIDE of the Tiers.

 

[eissa]

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
― C.S. Lewis

'Omniscient Morality liscence' nuff said, not that you have other choice anyway

 

[Ragemage]

I don't see how it would work though... Kyros can blow you to kingdom come with the click of his fingers... not to forget his armies OUTSIDE of the Tiers.

Well it seems to me, at least based off that one video where we see the player character stop an Edict with 3 different factions (Disfavored, Scarlet Chorus, and the Rebellion), it seems that Kyros's edicts have one fatal flaw. As long as you complete whatever the Edict commanded, then it's stopped. It doesn't matter by who. For example, the Edict that leads everyone to that fortress is basically "Alright you idiots, since you won't stop your infighting, I'm going to do it for you. Someone needs to occupy that damn fortress in 8 days or I'm going to destroy that entire valley."

That's just speculation but considering we even see a Rebel Fatebinder stop an Edict, why wouldn't an Independent Fatebinder be able to do it? Besides that, we don't know how difficult it is for Kyros to make Edicts. They may be able to do it all the time, or only once in a blue moon. Nothing's really set in stone just yet.

As for Kyros's armies outside the Tiers, well, think of it like the NCR in New Vegas. You could argue that the Independent ending is suicide because you're going up against what's basically the biggest fucking army in the entire world at the time. And yet you alone manage to rally all of the Mojave together to fight back not just the Legion but the NCR as well and win it for everybody. Who's to say we can't do the same with the Tiers? It may look puny but who knows what kind of big allies we'll be able to make? After all, New Vegas may not seem like much to take over at first glance, until you get the Enclave, BOS, and the Boomers on your side, then you get some super fighting power right there.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Well it seems to me, at least based off that one video where we see the player character stop an Edict with 3 different factions (Disfavored, Scarlet Chorus, and the Rebellion), it seems that Kyros's edicts have one fatal flaw. As long as you complete whatever the Edict commanded, then it's stopped. It doesn't matter by who. For example, the Edict that leads everyone to that fortress is basically "Alright you idiots, since you won't stop your infighting, I'm going to do it for you. Someone needs to occupy that damn fortress in 8 days or I'm going to destroy that entire valley."

That's just speculation but considering we even see a Rebel Fatebinder stop an Edict, why wouldn't an Independent Fatebinder be able to do it? Besides that, we don't know how difficult it is for Kyros to make Edicts. They may be able to do it all the time, or only once in a blue moon. Nothing's really set in stone just yet.

As for Kyros's armies outside the Tiers, well, think of it like the NCR in New Vegas. You could argue that the Independent ending is suicide because you're going up against what's basically the biggest fucking army in the entire world at the time. And yet you alone manage to rally all of the Mojave together to fight back not just the Legion but the NCR as well and win it for everybody. Who's to say we can't do the same with the Tiers? It may look puny but who knows what kind of big allies we'll be able to make? After all, New Vegas may not seem like much to take over at first glance, until you get the Enclave, BOS, and the Boomers on your side, then you get some super fighting power right there.

Yeah well, the problem is that there are large chunks of the world NOT conquered by the NCR. That is not the case in Tyranny.

 

[Ragemage]

Yeah well, the problem is that there are large chunks of the world NOT conquered by the NCR. That is not the case in Tyranny.

I would argue large chunks of America are owned by both NCR and the Legion, and you as an Independent manage to drive not one but both of them back. With powerful allies it seems entirely possible.

Who knows? Maybe we'll be able to convince Papa Grave and Voices of Nerat to join us if we go Independent. It probably won't happen but I can dream. We know we can recruit the Archon of Songs as an example of a really powerful ally.

 

[eissa]

and Voices of Nerat

and being added as his collection of voices? no thanks!

 

[Dr Fallout]

I would argue large chunks of America are owned by both NCR and the Legion, and you as an Independent manage to drive not one but both of them back. With powerful allies it seems entirely possible.

Who knows? Maybe we'll be able to convince Papa Grave and Voices of Nerat to join us if we go Independent. It probably won't happen but I can dream. We know we can recruit the Archon of Songs as an example of a really powerful ally.

They're not actually that large. Also New Vegas is pretty isolated geographically. You can try to create a choke point in the mountains and block it so...