Dr Fallout
Centurion
Citation? Does sound interesting though.
Tyranny Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Ragemage
- Start date
eissa
Artanis "Altáriel" Nerwen Nos Finwe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onna-bugeisha
its also an ancient custom for any sarmatian descendant that women to frequently hunting on horseback with their husbands; in war taking the field; and wearing the very same dress as the men". Moreover, according to Herodotus, "No girl shall wed till she has killed a man in battle"
Polearm is easy to use; as it was derived from everyday tool that commoner uses, kind like traveling stick with blade. Bow; it doesnt require direct contact with your enemy as you shoot fast and long enough; thats why most nomadic horse archer at the time of scythians include woman at their rank (or anytime until the invention of stirrup)
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Thanks.
Herodotus isn't exactly the most reliable source... but interesting stuff all the same.
I wouldn't mind agame where they make everything as historically accurate as possible. But then turn around the roles of males and females.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
True, it would be interesting and a point in Kyros's favour if he was trying to change social norms.
eissa
Artanis "Altáriel" Nerwen Nos Finwe
i like it +1
eissa
Artanis "Altáriel" Nerwen Nos Finwe
Dunno if this is historically accurate; but i found some interesting background behind the name of kyros itself.
its taken from http://kyros.org/ website
Kyros (KIR os)
The Greek word for power that is legitimate, but limited and compassionate
The Greek language permits more clarity for nuances in meaning than English does. Just think of all the Greek words we translate simply as “love” in English. And there is cronos for human’s linear time and kairos for God’s time. Likewise, Greeks name both the expressions of power, which we might naively call “good power” and “bad power”. Power in itself is not good or bad, anymore than anger is good or bad. Yet its expression can be harmful or beneficial, damaging or appropriate.
In ancient Greece, a man might use one kind of power (despos) toward slaves, but use a different kind of power (kyros) to his wife and children. In that patriarchal system, men held the power in the culture – yet vocabulary itself helped men understand appropriate expression of their authority over others. Kyros indicates a legitimate, but more limited, moral authority whose wielder takes into consideration the good of those over whom it is exercised. Such restricted power is not abused.
its taken from http://kyros.org/ website
Kyros (KIR os)
The Greek word for power that is legitimate, but limited and compassionate
The Greek language permits more clarity for nuances in meaning than English does. Just think of all the Greek words we translate simply as “love” in English. And there is cronos for human’s linear time and kairos for God’s time. Likewise, Greeks name both the expressions of power, which we might naively call “good power” and “bad power”. Power in itself is not good or bad, anymore than anger is good or bad. Yet its expression can be harmful or beneficial, damaging or appropriate.
In ancient Greece, a man might use one kind of power (despos) toward slaves, but use a different kind of power (kyros) to his wife and children. In that patriarchal system, men held the power in the culture – yet vocabulary itself helped men understand appropriate expression of their authority over others. Kyros indicates a legitimate, but more limited, moral authority whose wielder takes into consideration the good of those over whom it is exercised. Such restricted power is not abused.
Last edited:
AskWazzup
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Watched a bit of gameplay footage and the running animations seem to be off somehow. The legs seem to move faster than the speed at which the character is running. Actually the animations (combat ones especially) kind of remind me of Dragon Age 2 (not that there is anything wrong with that, i like stylized elements). Looking at how they made the art style feel like "Samurai Jack", i wonder if they wanted the same kind of feel for animation.
Last edited:
Ragemage
Wept for Zion
Well they are changing the combat to make it easier on the player and less constant multi-tasking. For example, no more double health bar. Instead of Endurance and Health, now it's only Health. Spells also can't friendly-fire anymore (possibly unless you're on a higher difficulty) though they work the same way in that you have a limited amount before you have to rest. You can also make your own spells from scratch, Morrowind style. There's also only 4 party members instead of 6 now which means a lot less keeping track of every single companion on the screen and making sure your AI buddies aren't doing stupid shit. This also means less massive hordes of enemies as well.
AskWazzup
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Hm... so they are trying to improve the combat, by making it more shit? God dammit...
Ragemage
Wept for Zion
I don't see how exactly making it less of a chore micromanaging iis making it "more shit". They're making it more precise and better to use. Less clutter on the screen for starters. For that matter they've mentioned that, because you have only 4 people instead of 6, this let them work on the AI more this time instead of just making giant hordes of enemies to throw yourself against.
Besides that Endurance and Health being seperate entities never really made sense in the long run to me. It's a good idea in theory but when you have superb armor and stuff like that and lose 0 endurance but still lose health every single hit no matter what, it starts to get very silly. It should have just been one life bar to begin with, or at least make them sync up with each other depending on how much endurance you lose.
And no friendly-fire on spells just means spells will be used more often. In Pillars it's nigh impossible to use large AOE spells because most of the time (especially on higher difficulties like I play on) half your team (the front line) will always be surrounded by enemies, making giant all-hit AOE spells pretty garbage because you just end up hitting your own teammates, and even if it doesn't hurt their endurance they still lose health. Now they'll be more accessible. Besides that if you really like the idea of friendly-fire with spells, it's most likely going to be a tick option on the main menu like how "Acquire wounds when knocked out" is in PoE.
eissa
Artanis "Altáriel" Nerwen Nos Finwe
Want to feel those experience of enabling firendly fire in a gameplay that were designed without friendly fire in mind. That's true RPG experience.
Last edited:
AskWazzup
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
I do, however it might end up being better for all i know, but from what you described this is my impression.
Now for starters, making your party size 6 slots deep does not exclude the possibility of a 5, 4, 3, 2 character party, or even solo playthrough as evident in POE. But it does give you much more options to choose from when tackling different combat scenarios. Making it more "precise" and "better to use" could mean it is more favorable for fast paced hack and slash gameplay for all i know, they need some serious additions to the combat mechanic to offset the loss of tactical maneuvers that 2 additional party members gives you. And i'm not exactly sure where are you going with the "just making giant hordes of enemies to throw yourself against"? Are you referring to a particular game with a 6 man party that had this problem because of high count of characters in the party?
Well endurance helps to distinguish tanking/meele characters from the wizards/rogues in a way that a tank can restore his endurance much more quickly and thus literally fight until his death (or use skills like second wind to get back up after knockdown), while your second row characters get knocked the fuck out if you are not careful, but can still be revived. That is less silly than reviving your characters from death every time and healing major wounds, instead of giving more endurance. Plus, the amount of endurance you have depends on how much health you have, so if your health gets lower than your endurance, your maximum endurance starts to diminish with your health. This makes the fighter type much more durable through the long run (through a number of battles), because even though he has a bit more endurance than others characters, he has much more health than them and so his endurance starts to suffer much later than everyones else, so he does not need to camp as often. This adds not only a tactical element to the game, but also a strategic one.
No friendly fire basically means spells with no consequences and less planing in combat. I use AOE spells with friendly damage mode all the time, because if you use them right, they are very powerful, but require you to plan your approach to every combat instance differently. You have to take account of your area: outside vs inside, how the spell behaves: bounces of vs : explodes at the spot etc. I have used doorways to great effect with AOE spells, because i can stealth my way to the entrance of a room, cast a rolling fireball and then put my tanks in the doorway so that nobody could escape the room while the fireball is going around the place. So i hope they keep that in game.
All of your above points are about removing something from the game, but have they added any tactical elements that would somewhat offset this loss of tactical and strategic maneuvers?
Last edited:
Ragemage
Wept for Zion
I'll address your points one by one:
1. First of all, the "giant hordes of enemies" I'm referring to is in Pillars of Eternity obviously, don't play coy. The game is chockful of areas where there are just absolute armadas of enemies just out in the open simply because you have a large party. For example, a simple battle to defend your keep at Caed Nua could contain something as ridiculous as 6 Ogres at once, which is no easy thing to take down, especially if you don't have a Fighter with Knock-Down. They made it this way so the game would feel challenging because there's tons and tons of enemies to deal with, they've said as much themselves. However, by scaling the party back they are also going to improve the AI for enemies. They haven't gone into too much detail about this, but I would imagine it means the enemy will use more tactical manuevers. For example, in Pillars, most enemies would simply bumrush you and try to overrun your position, but that was pretty much the main strategy. The only time the enemy was really smart was boss fights and bounties.
Let's take Sly Cyrdel for example. He has improved AI over most enemies because he actually "thinks", so to speak. Rather than simply charging into your tanks like everyone else while your long-ranged fighters chill in the back and take it easy, just launching spells at everything that comes near your front-line, he would actually go AROUND your front-line and aim straight for the squishies in the back, such as your wizard or priest. Tactics like these were very rare in the game because for the most part they chose to throw big big piles of enemies all at once at the player for difficulty rather than making AI better for all enemies that weren't "boss level". Tyranny will basically have it so a lot more enemies act as something like Sly Crydel does, with actual tactics and thinking.
2. [Honest 3] I disagree with this assessment. The problem here is that there really doesn't seem to be a point for having 2 health bars. Basically once your Endurance drops to 0 your character is out of the race anyway, and even if you manage to keep healing and tanking eventually your health is going to catch up with you and you'll die regardless. I've lost a LOT of battles in my POE solo run because even though I can keep my Endurance up just fine, my health will keep dropping anyway from every single little thing that grazes me. The main issue is that, as I said, every time you get hit you lose a chunk of your main health even if your endurance doesn't suffer a lick. This will eventually lead to you being killed regardless, and the ONLY spell in the game that restores regular health as opposed to endurance is complete shit and barely fills up 1/6th of the bar. The only point it seems to me for the 2nd health bar is the camp fire mechanic. If you don't rest eventually and your main health gets too low, you'll end up dying no matter what your Endurance is. That seems like it was the point but it's also asinine in the way it was executed. It just doesn't work as strategic, it's more annoying than anything. Why am I able to heal my Endurance up completely during battle with my Priest's 20 different Endurance healing spells, but I can't do anything about my main health going down regardless? If they had just added some regular health spells besides Field Triage (garbage) then this wouldn't be too much of an issue, but they didn't.
3. Well as I said, you'll most likely have the option to leave that on. As for me, I can't stand friendly fire on spells, because it basically means AOE nondamaging spells that cause things such as fear, hobble, paralyzation, etc with friendly fire are never going to get used, because damage is one thing but crippling my own fighters the exact same amount as my enemies makes them all worthless. There's not really a way to strategize this either as many parts of the game take place in narrow hallways, and not to mention the pathfinding in the game isn't outstanding. I've had many a time where my party members will suddenly be engaged in battle out of nowhere and I won't be able to move my fighters to a strategic position because they get stuck behind another party member/a summon/an enemy/etc. If the game had more open areas and didn't have so many enemies at once all the damn time then sure, I wouldn't mind friendly-fire on at all. But the issue here is, it doesn't. Many areas are very tight or at the very least difficult to move around in with wide berth so you can actually get some big spells off without hitting your own party. Do you see what I'm saying?
For me, all of this is for the benefit of the game. What you call removing I call improving what's already there. Combining Endurance and Health into one, getting rid of 2 party members to enhance the AI and combat, and getting rid of friendly-fire on permanently to give people a choice as to whether they want it or not.
Jogre
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
It also makes all healers in the game completely worthless, because 99% of the time it's far easier to just let someone be knocked out, than to waste a high level spell keeping them on life support.
If they wanted to make Tanks better at tanking than wizards/rogues, then why didn't they just make them have differing amounts of HP, so they die less, rather than creating a separate health bar for them?
It kind of reminds me of old tabletop games, where you would mostly use big, AOE spells in outdoor climates, due to fear of friendly fire.
To me, it adds a level of realism, being careful using spells that could potentially hurt you or your party. Plus, it adds a much needed tactical edge to the game.
Jogre
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Anyway, one of my main problems with PoE is that you could never really create any unique characters. Every character you played would always be basically the same, the only real difference being whether they hit there enemies with magic, arrows or swords.
Like, how much more unique would each playthrough be if Ciphers had the ability to read minds, or change people's thoughts during dialogue, or if Wizards could read runes that nobody else could, or if Chanters could use knowledge of folk legends, ect.
Instead, they just each seem like generic combat roles, rather than having any tangible impact on anything else in the game.
Like, how much more unique would each playthrough be if Ciphers had the ability to read minds, or change people's thoughts during dialogue, or if Wizards could read runes that nobody else could, or if Chanters could use knowledge of folk legends, ect.
Instead, they just each seem like generic combat roles, rather than having any tangible impact on anything else in the game.
eissa
Artanis "Altáriel" Nerwen Nos Finwe
This is why i'm not fond of change in name of balance for RPG. It ruins Roleplaying and immersion. i must say Cipher do have unique dialogue option in pillars, like how you could kill skaen cultist if you are cipher or brought grieving mother with you. It will give you ending that just unique from the choice you made above.
Last edited:
AskWazzup
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Honestly there are no smart enemies in POE, and neither in any real time rpg that i remember, most of the difficulty and interesting parts of POE come out because of the varied enemies and encounters and the somewhat complex mechanics, which let's you play with different variables. Fighting a bunch of spirits in a lighthouse is very different from fighting a bunch of human enemies, which is very different from fighting a bunch of ogres, which is different from fighting a bunch of Pŵgra. The bounty battle you described is precisely how many battles with spirits (or Pŵgra) end up for me and they are actually much more interesting, because not only do they often try to go for the casters, they are also very unpredictable with their teleportation and mind spells, sometimes lulling you into a false sense of security and then instantly changing the flow of the battle with a few spells. I found the bounties pretty boring overall.
What exactly have they in store for Tyranny that will make the game much more tactical and interesting? I would understand if they would go with something like DOS turn based combat system with destructible objects and elements that interact with each other, but from what little i have seen, there is no indication that they magically enhanced the A.I in way that would make the battles much more tactical, or even as tactical. Is there some footage of this at play?
For the "hordes of enemies" argument, well have you played IW2, or BG2? POE pales in comparison and i personally don't see a problem there at all, it never even entered my mind.
But now you are talking about your solo run, which is a different endeavor from a party based run, where you have a tank that regenerates endurance differently and can wake up from being knocked down with "second wind" ability, while squishy characters have to be "revived". The part i do agree with, is the camping mechanics, because you can always backpedal to town for camping supplies. If they made areas that had a couple of battles without backpedaling this would have ended up as a very strategic (in practice) component when choosing your companions for some dungeon. And i don't get how healing endurance is more silly than healing chopped off limbs and reviving the dead, at least here death is death.
Although i feel this is an interesting mechanic in POE, i don't feel as strongly about it's absence, as the smaller party.
That is strange, because i use AOE spells mostly in tight spaces, where i can create an obstacle for enemies to crowd in, which is harder to do in open spaces when the battle is already in full effect. I love friendly fire, it just makes the combat much more pale when you can throw anything but the kitchen sink without thinking about how that is going to effect your party, i think that should be for the easy and story modes.
But your whole point of improvement stands on the notion that the devs will somehow make the A.I much better, without that they are just throwing out extra complexity to make their job easier, not to enrich the game with many more options. While i would love that to be true and would forget about these deletions of some parts of the game mechanics, there is nothing to indicate that it is so, at least not that i have seen.
We have very different playstyles then, because my playthrough on hard was very dependent on healers, i actually don't see how you could kill the adra dragon on hard without them. Many battles on hard take very long and healing spells are crucial, at least for me. Although i guess on normal or easy it's a more useless option because of the quick battles.
But they do have different amounts of HP? My fighters has 500 hp with 110 endurance and my buffer has 330 hp with 80 endurance. Have i misunderstood something here?
Am i missing some games? I am serious, i don't remember any rpg's having that depth, well maybe Planescape Torment. Which games have these and do they have linux versions?
Last edited:
CaptJ
The Rival of Roquefort Hall
They went out of their way to give the character customization stats different names. Can Bethesda sue people for using S.P.E.C.I.A.L.?