UEFA Euro 2008 Thread

[Sander]

One of the defenders took himself out of the game, that means van Nistelrooy wasn't off-side. 100% legit goal.

You got to be kidding...

Ehm, no.
Please go re-read the rules. This was a legit goal by the rules because Panucci was behind the goal. This rule is actually in place to prevent cheating (defenders stepping off the pitch to create an offside situation), but it's there.

Whether or not the rules are stupid is rather irrelevant for the referee, since he's just there to enforce the rules, not make them.


Italy didn't even play as poorly as some people say they did, really. They did create some opportunities, but Van der Sar was in great form, and when he wasn't Gio took the ball off the line.

Great performance by the Dutch, though. Much, much better than I would've expected.

 

[ZiggyMeister]

One of the defenders took himself out of the game, that means van Nistelrooy wasn't off-side. 100% legit goal.

You got to be kidding...

@Briosafreak
I'm afraid you're wrong, until a few minutes ago I would agree with you, but after reading Brother None's statement I started doubting my knowledge of the football laws, specially of the off-side law (law 11).
So I made a little research, starting at wikipedia and ending at UEFA and FIFA official websites, and know I have to agree with BN and the referee, saying that all the 3 Dutch goals were legal.
The last piece of information that convinced was an official statement from UEFA: http://www.euro2008.uefa.com/news/kind=1/newsid=711341.html

So, congratulations to The Netherlands. That was really a fair victory.
I only watched the first half, and pieces of the second, but for what I saw, that was really the best game of this Euro, at least for now.

Now I'm starting to hope that Portugal and Holland can meet at the Final. And that Portugal can take the Cup, fair and square [/url]

 

[Briosafreak]

@Briosafreak
I'm afraid you're wrong, until a few minutes ago I would agree with you, but after reading Brother None's statement I started doubting my knowledge of the football laws, specially of the off-side law (law 11).

Guys I have a PVR, and you can find the goal on the internet. Panucci fells outside the pitch with a dutch player, that exception can not be applied there, it was not on purpose, and that situation was right on the referees eyesight.

Ziggy the commentators on TVI immediately said that could be the case, but the replays don't leave margin for any doubt, as they rightfully said afterwards.

It was such a gigantic blunder the referees tried desperately to make up after the break with a few silly decisions in favor of Italy, making it even more obvious they should leave now.

 

[Sander]

Guys I have a PVR, and you can find the goal on the internet. Panucci fells outside the pitch with a dutch player, that exception can not be applied there, it was not on purpose, and that situation was right on the referees eyesight.

Ziggy the commentators on TVI immediately said that could be the case, but the replays don't leave margin for any doubt, as they rightfully said afterwards.

And your commentator was simply wrong. Just read the rulebook. It's very, very clear: any defender off the pitch is still counted for offside purposes unless that player has been given leave by the referee to be treated off the pitch. He need not be off the pitch on purpose for this to be the case.

Those are simply the rules. The rules confirmed by FIFA, UEFA and every referee in the world. I don't see how you can possibly contend that these aren't the rules when all you have is some commentator claiming that those aren't the rules, vs the people who actually make the rules claiming that those are the rules.

It was such a gigantic blunder the referees tried desperately to make up after the break with a few silly decisions in favor of Italy, making it even more obvious they should leave now.

Eh? What? I mean, honestly, I didn't see that at all, and I'm the Dutchie here, I'm supposed to be complaining about the refs favoring Italy.

 

[Yoshi525]

The goal was perfectly legitimate. It is not a stupid rule either, it makes perfect sense.

[/quote]

 

[Sander]

The official FIFA rule as published in the USSF (United States Soccer Federation) "Advice to Referees on the Laws of the Game" booklet it says:

"However,

A defender who leaves the field during the course of play and does not immediately return must still be considered in determining where the second to last defender is for the purpose of judging which attackers are in an offside position. Such a defender is considered to be on the touch line or goal line closest to his or her off-field position. A defender who leaves the field with the referee's permission (and who thus requires the referee's permission to return) is not included in determining offside position."
More from the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/euro_2008/7445476.stm

In conclusion: not offside.

In any case, I'm wondering how Spain will start off. Are they going to be the group of excellent players who can't play as a team (like France or Spain in every tournament ever), or are they finally going to put together a great side? Iniesta and Xavi on one midfield, with Torres and Villa and perhaps Fabregas on the pitch as well should theoretically be absolutely brilliant.

PS: Refereeing has been pretty good so far this tournament, with the exception of Pieter Vinks' failing to send off Pogatetz.

 

[Briosafreak]

In conclusion: not offside.

I thought it was when the players moved on purpose outside the field, that was what was discussed previously... you are right of course, it's still completely stupid to change a rule completely while saying it's an "interpretation".

In disciplinary terms this has been the worse ever, they got strict orders to defend player integrity and they don't give red cards or yellow cards or pretend the tackles and punches don't happen, it's ridiculous.

But having said that you're right, until now they haven't screw up much, hope things stay that way, the rumors about the betting mafias are still rampant.

 

[Sander]

I thought it was when the players moved on purpose outside the field, that was what was discussed previously... you are right of course, it's still completely stupid to change a rule completely while saying it's an "interpretation".

In disciplinary terms this has been the worse ever, they got strict orders to defend player integrity and they don't give red cards or yellow cards or pretend the tackles and punches don't happen, it's ridiculous.

But having said that you're right, until now they haven't screw up much, hope things stay that way, the rumors about the betting mafias are still rampant.

Luckily, these tournaments are not really as susceptible to corruption as normal leagues are. Officials get paid somewhat decently (10.000 euros a match if I recall correctly), and there's a lot of prestige and career opportunities involved with doing well.

And I think you're overreacting slightly. I haven't seen much drama on the pitch, I've seen some yellows for whining players (good thing in my opinion), I haven't seen any whining for yellow cards (again, a great thing, pisses me off every time I see a player whine for a yellow card), the only really bad call I've seen so far was not sending off Pogatetz, but that's about it. Hell, even Mejuto Gonzalez did decently.

Also, this virtual replay thingie on the BBC website is the absolute nuts. You can watch a great computer simulation of the goals from every angle imaginable, including following specific players. Pretty fun to play with.

 

[Brother None]

Hell, the refs are all whistling great matches so far. Excepting the Turkey-Portugal match, there haven't been any real cases of someone trying to overpower the other team physically with dirty play. The Turks were the only one who tried it so far, and they failed.

Refs are really letting the teams play. Good tournament from their side so far. Again, I really like Fröjdfeldt, good ref.

Panucci fells outside the pitch with a dutch player

Actually, Panucci tumbled over Buffon. Kuijt didn't really hinder either of them.

Back on topic: Russia's going to have a tough time of it. They're missing too many key players to make a fist offensively, I don't really see 'em beating Spain.

 

[Sander]

Actually, Panucci tumbled over Buffon. Kuijt didn't really hinder either of them.

Back on topic: Russia's going to have a tough time of it. They're missing too many key players to make a fist offensively, I don't really see 'em beating Spain.

Hiddingu can do anything.
That, and the fact that Aragones is a complete idiot and Spain historically lacks a cohesive squad (what with the Catalonians, the Basques etc) might give them a chance. But against the likes of Ramos, Puyol, Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas (who might not even play), Villa and Torres I don't give them much of a chance.

But that's fine. Spain isn't the team they need to beat to advance out of this group, Greece and Sweden are.

 

[maximaz]

Looking at the poll... Does someone seriously believe Russia will get the cup?

Spain vs Russia = the most violent rape so far. I predicted 2-0, didn't expect 4-1.

 

[Madbringer]

No Pogrebnyak, no Arshavin, lazy defending, all it takes. Same happened in Poland v Germany, although defending wasn't THAT bad.

 

[Brother None]

Looking at the poll... Does someone seriously believe Russia will get the cup?

That was me. Nationalism. If it were up to my brain, then from matches played the Netherlands would be favourite, and reality check would make Germany favourite.

Knowing Hiddink, this is not the Russia we'll see for the rest of the cup.

Didn't finish watching the match, but what I did see (the first half) was atrocious. And here's the shocker: it was atrocious from both sides.

Spain was defending like shit, apparently their concept of defending is just standing around near the offensive player, and generally tepid, just lounging about the field and depending on individual actions.

That was fine against this crippled Russia, who could not do anything offensively and made too many amateur errors overall, but that kinda shit won't cut it on the long run.

Unless things changed in the second half.

 

[Madbringer]

Spain was defending like shit, apparently their concept of defending is just standing around near the offensive player, and generally tepid, just lounging about the field and depending on individual actions.

That was fine against this crippled Russia, who could not do anything offensively and made too many amateur errors overall, but that kinda shit won't cut it on the long run.

Unless things changed in the second half.

I was afraid to write it myself, but yes, Spain didn't play that good at all. I read opinions from people that Spain was doing miracles up front, but Russian defense was utter shit! No, it did not change after half time, more so, Spain played arguably worse in the second half than in the first, that's why Russia finally managed to put one in. Hell, they could score more than one, it was really close to 3:2 at one point, but Spain managed to counter and finish the job.

Imo Spain, being so shitty in the back, doesn't have much of a chance against any team that can defend itself, and judging from what Greece showed in the first 45 minutes vs Sweden, this will probably be Spain's first bump on the road to the title.

 

[Yata]

Let's hope not.

 

[Briosafreak]

Ah I forgot about the BBC thingy, it's excellent!

Spain played wonderfully, except for the last five minutes. Nice game, really fast.

 

[Sander]

I missed the Spain v Russia match, sadly. But from the reactions and what I saw in a short summary, Spain is suffering from the same problem they always have: they're not a team. Ridiculous.
Russia disappointing, too. Hiddink has some changes to make, although losing to Spain was to be expected and isn't really a problem in this group.

The Greeks and the Swedes are playing a horrible match as well. It's gotten a bit better after the first goal (beauty by madman Ibrahomivic), but it's still horrible. Neither team is playing decent football, nor are they really creating opportunities.

So Group D is looking to be the group with the worst teams. And we get to play either the runner-up or the winner, depending on how our further matches go.

That was me. Nationalism.

TRAITOR!

 

[horse]

i was VERY surprised and pleased to see our german team play good and at the same time entertaining football. on another note: if we win the first game, we take the cup home! massive statistics prove that!*

and i'd LOVE to see the italian team traveling home. hated them since the early 80s when i started to watch international football. damn. nothing against italians, but their douchebag cheating /()%T&&( football teams annoyed the holy crap out of me and everyone else and their dogs.

for group games, the initial plays were really good. i will enjoy every single game outside drinking beer... my company (which is, in fact, MINE) switches a few gears down in football championship times, so all my coworkers (1) and my employees (1) will enjoy the championships as i do


*- euro '96

 

[Briosafreak]

Spain is suffering from the same problem they always have: they're not a team.

Nah, saw the game again late last night, really tight team, plays a bit like Holland, the duo in the attack is just fabulous.

Maybe not the best defense though.

 

[Yata]

Villa and Torres had a field day against them, they are both quality forwards anyway.