Wasted Potential

Funny because Amari never does anything other than stand there all day, and Irma just sits there all day.

"Not everyone has to be linked to quests".

Well in FO4 almost no one is... Which is the biggest problem. Most named NPCs don't even have dialogue. Rule of conservation of detail, if a character has no propouse then why even give it a name and an unique character model?
 
Walpknut said:
Funny because Amari never does anything other than stand there all day, and Irma just sits there all day.

"Not everyone has to be linked to quests".

Well in FO4 almost no one is... Which is the biggest problem. Most named NPCs don't even have dialogue. Rule of conservation of detail, if a character has no propouse then why even give it a name and an unique character model?
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That kinda bugged me about Sinjin, too. He has a unique bodymodel (he doesn't look like other ghouls, at least), but he's only there to appear at the end of the Silver Shroud quest. It just felt like he was supposed to have more to him...
 
Walpknut said:
if a character has no propouse then why even give it a name and an unique character model?
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Because those people should exist in any sort of realistic world?

The raiders have no reason to talk to you, and no reason to want to talk to you, but their bosses would still be fairly unique people, for being able to gather to many raiders under them. Should the raider bosses just be unnamed trash mobs like everyone else? No, that's why they give them set models, arms/armors, names, and terminals/notes detailing a bit about them/their rivalries with other raider gangs and what not. It doesn't mater if they are tied to a quest or not, they should be there, so they are.

The entire idea behind "rule of conservation of detail" is retarded in the modern gaming industry. This isn't 1995 anymore where budgets are so small you could buy a cup of coffee and run out of cash. You might as well ask "why bother making such a massive open world, with hundreds of various, and entirely redundant, ways to attack a target, that 99% of people wont use, in an Assassins Creed game, when you can make more linear levels, and just put like 10 different ways to attack the target?"

Assassins creed, GTA, New Vegas, any of Bethesda's games, all of them have tons of unique items/locations/NPCs/whatever around their maps that the player is never sent to use, and doesn't play a part in any quest. Its there because its supposed to be there, because it would be there.

Personally, I wish Bethesda would go back to what they did in Morrowind, and give every NPC an unique name/model, but the level scailing system makes that difficult.
 
If they are not going to put any detail on quests structure or narrative then it seems pointless to put extra detail on useless characters....
 
Walpknut said:
If they are not going to put any detail on quests structure or narrative
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I've met plenty of people who enjoyed Fo4's quests/narrative, even plenty of people who prefer NV over Fo3, and people who have never played a Bethesda game before.

I don't personally agree with everything they did in the game's quests, but they obviously are doing something right if so many people enjoyed it.
 
Walpknut said:
Well they did with the dialogue system.
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No, see, the dialogue system was half-assing, but making the four choices the same style almost everytime? Breaking meaningful conversations down to a bare minimum of interaction? Coming up with four different variants of "Yes" while keeping them vaguely in the style of Yes, No, Maybe, Question? That takes dedication to half-assery.
 
Walpknut said:
Many people enjoy Michael Bay movies, doesn't stop them from being shitty movies.
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That would be true if quality was an objective fact rather then a subjective opinion.

I hate bay's movies also, don't mean I am going to say people are wrong for enjoying them.
 
Someguy37 said:
Walpknut said:
If they are not going to put any detail on quests structure or narrative
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I've met plenty of people who enjoyed Fo4's quests/narrative, even plenty of people who prefer NV over Fo3, and people who have never played a Bethesda game before.

I don't personally agree with everything they did in the game's quests, but they obviously are doing something right if so many people enjoyed it.
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Ah, Argumentum ad populum,
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition is true because many or most people believe it: "If many believe so, it is so."
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I think no one here with a sane mind will tell you that Fallout 4 can't be enjoyed - like at all. Or that it doesn't appeal to a lot of people. But, I don't think that this has anything to do with Walpknut is trying to tell you here.

See, just because a burger at Burgerking is a fast food Burger, doesn't mean that it can't be enjoyed or that it doesn't appeal to the People. However, I tink it can be argued that there might be better Burgers out there, or better food in general. The fact that Burgerking sells millions of their burgers world wide and that many people enjoy those every day, doesn't directly tell us anything about the quality of said Burger, nor is it any counter to the argument, that there might be better burgers out there. Or, that there might be a better way to make burgers for fans of burgers. For that we would have to compare different kinds of Burgers. As a thought experiment you should go to a forum dedicated to burgers, open a topic about Burger King and explain them (...) but they obviously are doing something right if so many people enjoyed it.

I cant talk for you, but I certainly had better Burgers than those at Burger King in my life.

And I also had certainly games in my life, that offered a better narrative, quest design and writing compared to Fallout 4.
 
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Crni Vuk said:
Ah, Argumentum ad populum,
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That wasn't my argument at all, but ok.
The fact that Burgerking sells millions of their burgers world wide and that many people enjoy those every day, doesn't directly tell us anything about the quality of said Burger, nor is it any counter to the argument, that there might be better burgers out there. Or, that there might be a better way to make burgers for fans of burgers.
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I never said it did. All I implied was that they did whatever they set out to do, which is to have people enjoy their games.
 
That's because we are talking about 2 very different things here. No one here (as far as to my knowledge) ever told you that Fallout 4 is a game that can't be enjoyed. So actually, I am not sure what you're actually really arguing about.

The idea that Bethesda is making games that can be enjoyed is such a generic statement, that it has no meaning in the discussion. Particularly as that is not even the point at all. We, or at least I am, not talking about the goals Bethesda set for them self, if they managed to entertain 20 million gamers or not.
 
From my perspective... Their rule of cool, and loose treatment of the IP for sake of being flashy and catering primarily to a non-series audience for their ~so called "Fallout sequels", is tantamount to improving the common pipewrench [to the great applause to their target audience] thusly:
hammer_evolution_zpsvgphzn45.jpg


You just cannot play Fallout with Bethesda's attempts at it,
and for even what it intends now to be suitable for... it's still not.
trplFP_zps6kaqe9dv.jpg
 
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Another piece of wasted potential:
The Minigun lacks good mods. It has literally four mods in total, and nothing to really improve its abysmal performance to make it useful past the early deathclaw. It seriously needs mods to increase spin-up time, damage, armour penetration, everything.
For example, add a .50 cal conversion to turn it into a GAU-19-type gatling. Massive damage, way lower firing rate, ridiculous recoil unless you're using power armour.
Just... Make the Minigun useful. It sucks to run around in power armour and not being able to wield heavy weapons because a goddamn combat rifle outclasses everything.
 
Hassknecht said:
Another piece of wasted potential:
The Minigun lacks good mods. It has literally four mods in total, and nothing to really improve its abysmal performance to make it useful past the early deathclaw. It seriously needs mods to increase spin-up time, damage, armour penetration, everything.
For example, add a .50 cal conversion to turn it into a GAU-19-type gatling. Massive damage, way lower firing rate, ridiculous recoil unless you're using power armour.
Just... Make the Minigun useful. It sucks to run around in power armour and not being able to wield heavy weapons because a goddamn combat rifle outclasses everything.
Click to expand...

The Gatling is a beast though. It's basically a laser minigun.
 
Hassknecht said:
Another piece of wasted potential:
The Minigun lacks good mods. It has literally four mods in total, and nothing to really improve its abysmal performance to make it useful past the early deathclaw. It seriously needs mods to increase spin-up time, damage, armour penetration, everything.
For example, add a .50 cal conversion to turn it into a GAU-19-type gatling. Massive damage, way lower firing rate, ridiculous recoil unless you're using power armour.
Just... Make the Minigun useful. It sucks to run around in power armour and not being able to wield heavy weapons because a goddamn combat rifle outclasses everything.
Click to expand...
You should read the thread on the Bethesda forums where someone has been trying to rebalance the game since the damage on guns like the minigun only do 2 damage to anything stronger than a basic raider. Here's the link.

http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1570618-game-is-a-mess-look-in-the-esm/
 
MercenarySnake said:
Hassknecht said:
Another piece of wasted potential:
The Minigun lacks good mods. It has literally four mods in total, and nothing to really improve its abysmal performance to make it useful past the early deathclaw. It seriously needs mods to increase spin-up time, damage, armour penetration, everything.
For example, add a .50 cal conversion to turn it into a GAU-19-type gatling. Massive damage, way lower firing rate, ridiculous recoil unless you're using power armour.
Just... Make the Minigun useful. It sucks to run around in power armour and not being able to wield heavy weapons because a goddamn combat rifle outclasses everything.
Click to expand...
You should read the thread on the Bethesda forums where someone has been trying to rebalance the game since the damage on guns like the minigun only do 2 damage to anything stronger than a basic raider. Here's the link.

http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1570618-game-is-a-mess-look-in-the-esm/
Click to expand...

That thread is the reason I remembered the minigun at all and made that post :D
 
Playing on Survival, I have to shoot Super Mutants in the head with about 100 bullets before they go down. I am thinking of downloading the mod where they make Survival more lethal on both sides. This is just fucking dumb.


Also in another instance of Melee just sucking in FO4, you can only apply 1 mod to melee and unarmed weapons. It's just stupid.
 
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