Wasted Potential

Discussion in 'Fallout 4' started by Empty09, Nov 23, 2015.

  1. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    "See game that was never completed" "Opinions of a man who wasn't even in charge of New Vegas but only it's DLC" "See the weakest New Vegas DLC".

    Josh Sawyer has actually said that the theme of New Vegas was both the future of the Wasteland and letting go of the past. The only reason it would end in atomic fire was if you let Ulysses carry out his plan, which ultimately is considered by the game to be the worst ending of the DLC.
     
  2. Monco

    Monco The Duck of Death

    136
    Nov 4, 2015
    Except you forgot the part where the Great War 2.0 was initiated by an insane sociopath who honestly believed that nuking the NCR was a legitimate solution to solving the NCR's problems
     
  3. Someguy37

    Someguy37 Mildly Dipped

    592
    Nov 18, 2015
    You mean SJW Sawyer? The dude who wrote what is often considered the worst of NV's DLC? The guy who never worked on a released Fallout game until NV?

    Excuse me for not taking him seriously, though I will give him credit for admitting things like the formation of Vegas being unrealistic.
     
  4. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    "SJW Sawyer" Oh my god, we got one of these people in here.....

    It's funny you are now bad mouthing him even tho you brought up Van Buren which he was also the Lead Designer of....

    He never said it was unrealistic, he just said the time frame might have been too short.

    Also he didn't write the story of Honest Hearts, he wrote Joshua Graham (which despite being in Honest Hearts is considered one of the most interesting characters of the series) and designed Honest Hearts to be simple due to extreme time constraints placed upon them by Bethesda. At least get your facts straight....
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2015
  5. Someguy37

    Someguy37 Mildly Dipped

    592
    Nov 18, 2015
    The guy literally caved into the SJW crowed and edited part of PoE for them.

    Yeah, after Avellone had already made most of it, and then he changed a lot of stuff like making the Burned Man not as extreme.

    He outright says it was implausible.

    Also false, they had as much time to make HH as they did all the other DLC, and Old world Blues, Lonesome Road, and Dead Money, all had far more content.

    Stop trying to white knight a guy who admits he made mistakes.
     
  6. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    Can someone please explain why "SJW" is such a universal slur by now? What, is it the "social" part or the "justice" part that is so reprehensible, that we accuse people of it, in anger?

    JUSTICE! Makes me SICK!
     
  7. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    Uhmm no Avellone didn't "do most of it", what are you even talking about? Have you ever actually read what the guy has said? He literaly stated that Honest Hearts had the most compact development time so he designed it to be simple because he didn't think they could get anything more complex done in time....

    http://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/134405650091/im-not-sure-what-your-involvement-in-honest

    "Honest Hearts had the most compressed development schedule of the four main DLCs. At a high level, I designed it to be pretty simple because I was very concerned that we would not get it done on time. Other designers on the project wanted to do more complex things with it, but I had them reduce the complexity of the quests to limit potential risk."

    It helps to read, doesn't it?

    Why so agressive out of nowhere? You brought up Van Buren (lead designer, Sawyer) to prove your point but now you are bad mouthing the guy.

    Also for someone who attacked my english as a means of argument you seem to not be too familiar with the language yourself "Less plausible" is not the same as "Implausible". You are kind of jumping there.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2015
  8. Someguy37

    Someguy37 Mildly Dipped

    592
    Nov 18, 2015
    Are you confusing what I said about Chris in regards to Van Buren with HH? I am really not understanding where you are getting this from.

    Avellone was the first lead designer on Van Buren, Sawyer only came in after Chris stopped working on it. I was speaking about Chris's Van Buren, not Sawyer's.
     
  9. Monco

    Monco The Duck of Death

    136
    Nov 4, 2015
    To be fair, just because the name sounds nice doesn't mean that much, I mean China's official name is the People's Republic of China, doesn't that sound nice there's definitely no human rights violation going on there. There are also people that take their idea of social justice way too far, but in this case it's just a clear ad homenim.
     
  10. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    You are actually saying that Avellone did most of Van Buren? Do you even know how game design works? Considering how much it changed before getting cancelled appointing anything as "someone's game" is pretty naive (Just read through how many iterations of different locations existed and then got axed, them reinstated, then combined), specially since it never came to be...

    Seems to you that Cut content and cancelled games have more weight than released products....

    You are arguing for New Vegas having a message it didn't have while basing it on content that never came to be, from a guy that didn't even work on most of the game.... Makes lots of sense.
     
  11. Someguy37

    Someguy37 Mildly Dipped

    592
    Nov 18, 2015
    Uhh no, I am arguing that New Vegas has the same message every released Fallout game has had, based on the words of one of the guys who helped make the game, and its DLC, as well as the words of numerous NPCs in-game.

    The comparison to Van Buren was just an addition connecting what was said to what was the intent even back then.
     
  12. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    Funny I don't remember Fallout 1 and 2 being about nuking every nation. In fact that's kind of the thing you work against in both games. Specially the Second one.

    You are only taking the negative opinions of NPCs but ignoring the positive ones and even the better endings, which is pretty disingenous.... Are you saying that you are taking Elijah's opinion as sane? Or Ulysses' (even tho the best ending where he survives is about convincing him that he is wrong)? New vegas makes a case for no faction being perfect, but it's never about everything just failing, in fact many character's arcs are about contributing to the future of the factions they support in one way or the other...
     
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  13. Ilosar

    Ilosar Vault Fossil

    Apr 20, 2010
    ''SJW Sawyer caved''? Sure, that's totally what happened. Who needs facts when you have confirmation bias, right?

    You also do realize Avellone is primarily a writer, right? He didn't ''make most'' of anything. That's not how game design works.
     
  14. Plzstandbuy

    Plzstandbuy Lonely Drifter

    84
    Dec 7, 2015
    I want Obsidian to make another game taking place in the boneyard during an NCR civil war.
     
  15. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Moderator Orderite

    Apr 1, 2005
    Uhh, I know that dude I've beat the game three fucking times now. The Institute as a whole was ran like some evil organization from a comic book. Before he took over they did stupid shit, after he took over they did even worse. They act as if they want to rebuild yet all they do is destroy. Sounds like Hydra to me. It doesn't change the fact that he was replacing people with synths for no good reason (minus the Mayor which was handled poorly), the Institute was run by a bunch of morons minus one or two people, and their entire scheme was bullshit and not very well developed.
     
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  16. fakeangel

    fakeangel First time out of the vault

    63
    Nov 22, 2015
    What do you mean "now"? It's always been a bad word
     
  17. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    I am surprised the institude isn't a secret pawn of the Enclave. Maybe a DLC?
     
  18. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Moderator Orderite

    Apr 1, 2005
    No, they are just that stupid.
     
  19. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    I want the Think Tank back. At least they were stupid with style.
     
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  20. Ilosar

    Ilosar Vault Fossil

    Apr 20, 2010
    What WAS their plan anyway? They all go on about ''mankind, redefined'' and such but their plan seems to be

    Step 1: make synths, super mutants and gorillas
    Step 2: ???
    Step 3: Utopia!

    Combined with how wasteful most of their divisions are (the existence of so many Muties in the wilds defies belief), how inept their advancements are beyond two specific fields, how much of a bunch of jerks they are to Synths who are obviously written to be exactly like humans and the seemingly pointless destruction of any attempts by wastelanders to bring order, and I really fail to see what their deal is.

    I mean, as much as I thought both his premise and his means were fucked up, I could get what was Ceasar's goal. I could get why the Master wanted to dip everyone in his vats. I could get why the Enclave wanted to genocide people, again (even if the reasoning was BS). Hell, I could even get why Colonel Autumn wanted the purifier. But I'm not sure what goal, exactly, was fufilled by the Institute's seemingly randomized list of transgressions.

    It's like they are just here to handwave away bad stuff happening. Super Mutants? Oh, Institute makes them and spits them out for some reason. Kidnappings? Institute. Killer robots? Institute patrols for who knows what goals. No allied settlements in the Commonwealth? Institute stopped it. Brotherhood of Steel stomping about? Here because the Institute is bad. So on and so forth.
     
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