Wasted Potential

"See game that was never completed" "Opinions of a man who wasn't even in charge of New Vegas but only it's DLC" "See the weakest New Vegas DLC".

Josh Sawyer has actually said that the theme of New Vegas was both the future of the Wasteland and letting go of the past. The only reason it would end in atomic fire was if you let Ulysses carry out his plan, which ultimately is considered by the game to be the worst ending of the DLC.
 
Someguy37 said:
Walpknut said:
This is what Bethesda brought us.
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Black Isle/Interplay. See Van Buren's endings. Its also why Chris Avellone said the nuke everything endings of Lonesome Road are the ones he believes is correct. It was always the intent to have everything get nuked.

That was the whole point of the cycle
Fallout 1 = Small towns on their own
Fallout 2 = Establishment of new nations
New Vegas = These new nations fighting each other over scare resources(Resource wars 2.0) ultimately ending with with the collapse of these new nations in atomic fire(great war 2.0)

Its a cycle showing human history repeating itself with the same results.

War, war never changes.
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Except you forgot the part where the Great War 2.0 was initiated by an insane sociopath who honestly believed that nuking the NCR was a legitimate solution to solving the NCR's problems
 
Walpknut said:
"See game that was never completed" "Opinions of a man who wasn't even in charge of New Vegas but only it's DLC" "See the weakest New Vegas DLC".

Josh Sawyer has actually said that the theme of New Vegas was both the future of the Wasteland and letting go of the past. The only reason it would end in atomic fire was if you let Ulysses carry out his plan, which ultimately is considered by the game to be the worst ending of the DLC.
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You mean SJW Sawyer? The dude who wrote what is often considered the worst of NV's DLC? The guy who never worked on a released Fallout game until NV?

Excuse me for not taking him seriously, though I will give him credit for admitting things like the formation of Vegas being unrealistic.
 
"SJW Sawyer" Oh my god, we got one of these people in here.....

It's funny you are now bad mouthing him even tho you brought up Van Buren which he was also the Lead Designer of....

He never said it was unrealistic, he just said the time frame might have been too short.

Also he didn't write the story of Honest Hearts, he wrote Joshua Graham (which despite being in Honest Hearts is considered one of the most interesting characters of the series) and designed Honest Hearts to be simple due to extreme time constraints placed upon them by Bethesda. At least get your facts straight....
 
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Walpknut said:
"SJW Sawyer" Oh my god, we got one of these people in here.....

It's funny you are now bad mouthing him even tho you brought up Van Buren which he was also the director of....

He never said it was unrealistic, he just said the time frame might have been too short.

Also he didn't write the story of Honest Hearts, he wrote Joshua Graham (which despite being in Honest Hearts is considered one of the most interesting characters of the series) and designed Honest Hearts to be simple due to extreme time constraints placed upon them by Bethesda. At least get your facts straight....
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The guy literally caved into the SJW crowed and edited part of PoE for them.

Yeah, after Avellone had already made most of it, and then he changed a lot of stuff like making the Burned Man not as extreme.

He outright says it was implausible.

Also false, they had as much time to make HH as they did all the other DLC, and Old world Blues, Lonesome Road, and Dead Money, all had far more content.

Stop trying to white knight a guy who admits he made mistakes.
 
Can someone please explain why "SJW" is such a universal slur by now? What, is it the "social" part or the "justice" part that is so reprehensible, that we accuse people of it, in anger?

JUSTICE! Makes me SICK!
 
Uhmm no Avellone didn't "do most of it", what are you even talking about? Have you ever actually read what the guy has said? He literaly stated that Honest Hearts had the most compact development time so he designed it to be simple because he didn't think they could get anything more complex done in time....

http://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/134405650091/im-not-sure-what-your-involvement-in-honest

"Honest Hearts had the most compressed development schedule of the four main DLCs. At a high level, I designed it to be pretty simple because I was very concerned that we would not get it done on time. Other designers on the project wanted to do more complex things with it, but I had them reduce the complexity of the quests to limit potential risk."

It helps to read, doesn't it?

Why so agressive out of nowhere? You brought up Van Buren (lead designer, Sawyer) to prove your point but now you are bad mouthing the guy.

Also for someone who attacked my english as a means of argument you seem to not be too familiar with the language yourself "Less plausible" is not the same as "Implausible". You are kind of jumping there.
 
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Walpknut said:
Uhmm no Avellone didn't "do most of it", what are you even talking about? Have you ever actually read what the guy has said? He literaly stated that Honest Hearts had the most compact development time so he designed it to be simple because he didn't think they could get anything more complex done in time....

Why so agressive out of nowhere? You brought up Van Buren (lead designer, Sawyer) to prove your point but now you are bad mouthing the guy.
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Are you confusing what I said about Chris in regards to Van Buren with HH? I am really not understanding where you are getting this from.

Avellone was the first lead designer on Van Buren, Sawyer only came in after Chris stopped working on it. I was speaking about Chris's Van Buren, not Sawyer's.
 
zegh8578 said:
Can someone please explain why "SJW" is such a universal slur by now? What, is it the "social" part or the "justice" part that is so reprehensible, that we accuse people of it, in anger?

JUSTICE! Makes me SICK!
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To be fair, just because the name sounds nice doesn't mean that much, I mean China's official name is the People's Republic of China, doesn't that sound nice there's definitely no human rights violation going on there. There are also people that take their idea of social justice way too far, but in this case it's just a clear ad homenim.
 
You are actually saying that Avellone did most of Van Buren? Do you even know how game design works? Considering how much it changed before getting cancelled appointing anything as "someone's game" is pretty naive (Just read through how many iterations of different locations existed and then got axed, them reinstated, then combined), specially since it never came to be...

Seems to you that Cut content and cancelled games have more weight than released products....

You are arguing for New Vegas having a message it didn't have while basing it on content that never came to be, from a guy that didn't even work on most of the game.... Makes lots of sense.
 
Walpknut said:
You are arguing for New Vegas having a message it didn't have while basing it on content that never came to be, from a guy that didn't even work on most of the game.... Makes lots of sense.
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Uhh no, I am arguing that New Vegas has the same message every released Fallout game has had, based on the words of one of the guys who helped make the game, and its DLC, as well as the words of numerous NPCs in-game.

The comparison to Van Buren was just an addition connecting what was said to what was the intent even back then.
 
Funny I don't remember Fallout 1 and 2 being about nuking every nation. In fact that's kind of the thing you work against in both games. Specially the Second one.

You are only taking the negative opinions of NPCs but ignoring the positive ones and even the better endings, which is pretty disingenous.... Are you saying that you are taking Elijah's opinion as sane? Or Ulysses' (even tho the best ending where he survives is about convincing him that he is wrong)? New vegas makes a case for no faction being perfect, but it's never about everything just failing, in fact many character's arcs are about contributing to the future of the factions they support in one way or the other...
 
''SJW Sawyer caved''? Sure, that's totally what happened. Who needs facts when you have confirmation bias, right?

You also do realize Avellone is primarily a writer, right? He didn't ''make most'' of anything. That's not how game design works.
 
Crni Vuk said:
For all it's flaws, the NCR managed to survive for quite some time and even to grow. For all we know, they are probably still around in the timeline of F4. By the way, nations dissapear and change all the time. Just look at the past 70 years. IN that sense, the NCR has existed longer than, no clue Germany in it's current form, which changed quite heavily after 1945 I would say.

Most people actually talk about the NCR loosing in New Vegas, not outright colapsing. Many NPCs think the Legion will colapse in a relatively short time frame without Caesar. And that seems quite possible.
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I want Obsidian to make another game taking place in the boneyard during an NCR civil war.
 
Someguy37 said:
TorontRayne said:
SO instead of helping to rebuild the Commonwealth which they think is fucked up they fuck it up even more because super villain son is evil.
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Uhh, the massacre of the CPG happened when Shaun was like 2. He didn't order anything.

And how is that super villain evil? That us the obvious solution, no different then Caesar destroying all sense of tribal identity among all the tribes he conquers in order to form a new nation with a singular identity not separated by all the individuality that destroyed previous nations.

You want people to stay together? remove all individuality. You want people to stay apart, play their individuality against them.
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Uhh, I know that dude I've beat the game three fucking times now. The Institute as a whole was ran like some evil organization from a comic book. Before he took over they did stupid shit, after he took over they did even worse. They act as if they want to rebuild yet all they do is destroy. Sounds like Hydra to me. It doesn't change the fact that he was replacing people with synths for no good reason (minus the Mayor which was handled poorly), the Institute was run by a bunch of morons minus one or two people, and their entire scheme was bullshit and not very well developed.
 
TorontRayne said:
Someguy37 said:
TorontRayne said:
SO instead of helping to rebuild the Commonwealth which they think is fucked up they fuck it up even more because super villain son is evil.
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Uhh, the massacre of the CPG happened when Shaun was like 2. He didn't order anything.

And how is that super villain evil? That us the obvious solution, no different then Caesar destroying all sense of tribal identity among all the tribes he conquers in order to form a new nation with a singular identity not separated by all the individuality that destroyed previous nations.

You want people to stay together? remove all individuality. You want people to stay apart, play their individuality against them.
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Uhh, I know that dude I've beat the game three fucking times now. The Institute as a whole was ran like some evil organization from a comic book. Before he took over they did stupid shit, after he took over they did even worse. They act as if they want to rebuild yet all they do is destroy. Sounds like Hydra to me. It doesn't change the fact that he was replacing people with synths for no good reason (minus the Mayor which was handled poorly), the Institute was run by a bunch of morons minus one or two people, and their entire scheme was bullshit and not very well developed.
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What WAS their plan anyway? They all go on about ''mankind, redefined'' and such but their plan seems to be

Step 1: make synths, super mutants and gorillas
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Utopia!

Combined with how wasteful most of their divisions are (the existence of so many Muties in the wilds defies belief), how inept their advancements are beyond two specific fields, how much of a bunch of jerks they are to Synths who are obviously written to be exactly like humans and the seemingly pointless destruction of any attempts by wastelanders to bring order, and I really fail to see what their deal is.

I mean, as much as I thought both his premise and his means were fucked up, I could get what was Ceasar's goal. I could get why the Master wanted to dip everyone in his vats. I could get why the Enclave wanted to genocide people, again (even if the reasoning was BS). Hell, I could even get why Colonel Autumn wanted the purifier. But I'm not sure what goal, exactly, was fufilled by the Institute's seemingly randomized list of transgressions.

It's like they are just here to handwave away bad stuff happening. Super Mutants? Oh, Institute makes them and spits them out for some reason. Kidnappings? Institute. Killer robots? Institute patrols for who knows what goals. No allied settlements in the Commonwealth? Institute stopped it. Brotherhood of Steel stomping about? Here because the Institute is bad. So on and so forth.
 
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