Wasted Potential

Discussion in 'Fallout 4' started by Empty09, Nov 23, 2015.

  1. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Always weak.
     
  2. fakeangel

    fakeangel First time out of the vault

    63
    Nov 22, 2015
    I didn't say that.

    Let me put it in another way.

    Warren Spector was the director of Deus Ex, yes, but he was also the director of Invisible War, basically the Oblivion to the original's Morrowind. And he then made Epic Mickey, which was full of faults that he saw as selling points and so didn't bother to try to fix them in the sequel.

    Todd Howard was the director of Morrowind, then he made Oblivion and he now will never leave Oblivion.

    Warren's ego stop him from seeing his faults, Howard's simplicity stop him from making them even more blatant.

    Again, I'm not seeing how this is defending FO4's boring, vapid world with shallow mechanics.
    Todd will
     
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  3. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    Howard's ego is actually making his games worse everytime. He seems to worry more about WOWing shill journalists than actually delivering a good game or at least actually making a proper Fallout game.

    At least Warren Spector has a good game under his belt....
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 6
  4. fakeangel

    fakeangel First time out of the vault

    63
    Nov 22, 2015
    So does Todd.
     
  5. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Morrowind was a game he worked on, yes. But he was not creating the loore or concepts for it. Those already existed with the source material. He continued the work of other people, instead of creating his own franchise. And the first project he worked on, was a licence based on the Terminator franchise. He doesn't seem to be an overly creative guy. But he seems to know what actually sells, I have to give him that. He is aparantly a very skilled business man. So Bethesdas success as gamedeveloper today, is probably most of his work. No doubts about that.

    The other side, would be Timothy Cain I guess. Extremly creative, very experienced as designer, any of his games have been focused to deliver deep and engaging role playing experiences. And not just with one kind of gameplay, but actually in different mediums, from top down with turn based, like Fallout and Temple of Elemental Evil to real time and first/third person with Vampire - The Masquerade. But, I guess it seems, he was not a very great buisness man.

    Just compare the portfolio of Tim with Todd, and it becomes apparant that Todd is what I would describe as a, one trick ponny, with a keen senses on, what sells.

    Well, you will hardly find a game developer out there who hasn't created at least ONE failure or bland product. That's simply how it goes. Hellgate London was a rather mediocre Diablo clone for example. But, it doesn't change the fact that Brevik was part of a team that made one of the most popular action games out there, which most probably defined a whole genre even. In my opinion, this deserves a lot of respect I would say. And gives him some credit.

    I just question the quality that was still left in Morrowind from previous Elder Scrolls works to be Todds work actually, as I feel that given the source material, he was actually responsible for the decline of the Elder Scrolls as a whole. Elde Scrolls was Weavers baby. It is hard to say how much of Weaver was still in Morrowind. However, if I remember correctly he was still President of Bethesda Softworks during the development of Morrowind. Nonetheless, the change from Daggerfall to Morrowind was quite huge in some parts. And most of the changes, can be probably directly releated to Todd and his experience with one of his previous projects:

    (...)
    Perhaps most distressing to fans of Arena and Daggerfall was the lack of roguelike elements. In lieu of creating a massive roguelike world, Morrowind instead shifted to a comparatively small, hand-crafted static world centered around the island of Vvardenfell in the province of Morrowind. Cited reasons for doing so was an attempt at making more unique NPCs and quests. While in some cases this was accomplished effectively, there were still far too many filler NPCs to give the impression of a fully functioning virtual world. The tradeoff between the roguelike Daggerfall and hand-set Morrowind wasn't enough, and players ended up with a much smaller world to explore.

    Character skills were also pulled back from the 38 skills in Daggerfall to 27 in Morrowind. Most of the communication skills were removed, leaving only Mercantile and Speechcraft. Most of the old communication-based skills were language skills for most of the species of Tamriel. Contrary to first impressions, however, high language skills mostly reduced the likelihood of creatures attacking you on sight as opposed to actually allowing you to speak with them. Instead of taking the opportunity to support these skills and giving them an interactive application, they were removed.

    Much of these changes can be attributed to to Todd Howard's sudden promotion to Design Lead on the project. His experiences with the Terminator shooters could be seen as Bethesda effectively turned the Elder Scrolls series from an adventure game with roleplaying elements into a shooter with roleplaying elements.
    (...)
    http://www.nma-fallout.com/showthread.php?175874-Don-t-Buy-the-Hype

    And it is not much of a surprise, that Oblivion was even more of a simplification to Morrowind, which culminated in to Skyrim and now from Fallout 3 to Fallout 4. That's a rather telling progression in my opinion.

    I am just saying, if I ceated a deep and complex RPG experience rooted in some PnP concept, he is not the kind of person that I would trust to make a sequel to that. But, if I bought a franchise like Fallout and wanted to sell it to as many people as possible, than I would probably chose him. This seems to be where his skills as developer are. Changing something so it suits the needs of the masses.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2015
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  6. Earth

    Earth Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2013
    So...

    Is there a case to be made that Todd Howard ruined not only Fallout, but The Elder Scrolls series as well?
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  7. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    I would say that's pretty obvious.
     
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  8. Earth

    Earth Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2013
    It's only recently that I've noticed the correlation between Todd and Emil joining Bethesda and the increased suckiness of their games, so apologies if I'm not quite as with it as some of the people here.
     
  9. farchettiensis

    farchettiensis First time out of the vault

    42
    Feb 5, 2015
    -The main character? The intro was beautiful, and what ensued was just... wasted, really, because nothing followed. It's like you're telling a story, and then you go like 'boom!, 200 years, wakes up, gotta find sonny'. That sucks hugely.
    -Factions. You don't to go all New Vegas style (which I think is awesome), but come on, this is total garbage.
    -Companions. Forgettable, annoying.

    I'd say... pretty much everything envolving lore, or its total absence, narrative, character or story writing. It's shallow, and linear. Plus, Bethesda wasted potential not being able to properly imagine a post-apocalyptical world. Besides that, I miss being able to recognize places. In F3, this was a good, though far from ideal, thing, but in F4 (though I've only been to the area twice in real life) it just looks random to me. Beth had no vision whatsoever, and it's design seems, at times, random and fallout-ish.
     
  10. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    There are no landmarks in Fallout 4, well there are but they're few and spread between. I loved in NV how I could spot various camps, bases and statues from the distance, enabling me to use them as landmarks for my exploration.
     
  11. Spacemunkey

    Spacemunkey Vault Senior Citizen

    Dec 4, 2015
    I know that the combat zone has been said, but I think it goes further than that. I took a bounty to kill some raiders and ended up in the I think Southie Speakeasy full of more raiders and a boxing ring. The thing that made me think that an entire fighting circuit may have been planned was that Piper had ambient dialogue when we walked in saying something along the line of "You could find a worse place to get a drink." I can't say if there are more boxing rings around for sure but this would have been a lot more welcome, for me anyway, then base building.
     
  12. Canaris

    Canaris First time out of the vault

    33
    Mar 29, 2009
    Whole fucking game is one big wasted potential.
     
  13. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Imagine if instead of base building we got ALL the cut content and then some/.
     
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  14. MercenarySnake

    MercenarySnake Kept you waiting huh?

    Aug 22, 2015
    But then there would only be like..what four settlements and a bunch of rundown one house places? The game is desolate in terms of interaction(and no not with being able to pick up every damn thing you can shovel down your bras and underpants). As in NPCs, quests, dialogue, and then some.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2015
  15. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Cut content adds entire areas that can be interacted with.
     
  16. MercenarySnake

    MercenarySnake Kept you waiting huh?

    Aug 22, 2015
    Why would they cut it? Don't tell me another incoming Fallout Restoration patch. Only this time it's more like for bringing half the game back.
     
  17. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Oh I see it coming... the Fallout Restoration DLC, 29.99 bucks!
     
  18. MercenarySnake

    MercenarySnake Kept you waiting huh?

    Aug 22, 2015
    "Sorry we half assed everything about the game but atleast you can buy this DLC for the rest of the half assed features we cut out of the game!"
     
  19. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    And guess what! It's part of a trilogy...
     
  20. Khannis

    Khannis Rebuilding America

    145
    Jul 3, 2015
    Well, at least two half-asses make a whole ass! Right?
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1