What did you NOT like about FO 1 & 2?

What I hated most is that the Bozar is a
fucking BURST weapon, Argh...

The Bozar is a Singel shot weapon not a
BURST, *Growls*
 
Per said:
Roamer said:
-Unlike in FO1 Nuka Cola had no effect and you couldn't get addicted
-No food system, they even removed the sporadic FO1-food system

Both of these were exactly the same in both games, y'know.

:?:
So what do you mean?
That FO2 had also a food system or that FO1 didn't have one?
I remember that there were food-checks in FO1. If you walked through the desert without any food, you would lose some health points form time to time.

And you gained 1 awareness point by drinking nuke in FO1, but in FO2 you don't, right?
 
Roamer said:
So what do you mean?
That FO2 had also a food system or that FO1 didn't have one?
I remember that there were food-checks in FO1. If you walked through the desert without any food, you would lose some health points form time to time.

None of the games has a food system. Fo1 could perhaps be said to have a water system, but a nonsensical and inconsequential one. You'll get random encounters where you search for water, but they have nothing to do with whether you've eaten or drunk recently, or ever. If you have any water, you consume all of it. If you have all your water stashed on a friend, you consume none of it. If you go thirsty you lose 1-4 hit points (which are recovered rapidly as you travel on, supposedly dying from thirst) and 1-6 hours (inconsequential). Having power armour, which recycles water, has no effect. It's true the game text says "health points", but they mean hit points.

Roamer said:
And you gained 1 awareness point by drinking nuke in FO1, but in FO2 you don't, right?

No such bonus in either game, and you can get addicted (to no effect) in either game.
 
Understatement of the year. You were trying to argue with Per for christ sake...

He knows more about the game than the developers do. (possible exaggeration)
 
Dove said:
Understatement of the year. You were trying to argue with Per for christ sake...

He knows more about the game than the developers do. (possible exaggeration)

Per knows EVERYTHING about Fallout.. There isn't one damn thing he doesn't know about it.. :shock:

Regards,
DarkLegacy
 
Hello, this is my first post here. Anyway, here are some constructive criticisms on FO and FO2

Firstly, let me state that FO and FO2 (despite its flaws) are, bar none, the best computer games I've ever played. The only game that comes close is Civ II, but that wasn't a RPG, so it's a different genre anyway.

Criticisms specific to FO: Though FO2 is by far the bigger game, FO is, IMO, definitely the better of the two. Size matters, but so does atmosphere and thematic consistency. FO had this in spades. But, there are a few things that could have made the game better.

1) Too short - I've already mentioned this, but it is the biggest fault. I've played and beaten this game probably like twenty times, where as FO2 has been beaten only four or five times. This is mostly due to the fact that FO just doesn't take that long to beat.

2) Not enough locations - Though it may have required extra time, it would have really added to the game if they sprinkled more locations hidden throughout the map. It would have made exploring that much more fun. I'm not talking about random encounters (though those are good), I'm talking mostly abandoned towns (or warehouses or shanty-towns or whatever) that don't directly have anything to do with the plot. Junktown would count as one of these. They don't even have to have major sub-quest in them, just maybe a store or trading post or something. Just a thought, FO felt rather empty.

Criticisms specific to FO2: Now, I like FO2. Really. It's big, it's fun, it's funny as hell. BUT, it is not a better game . . .

1) Incoherent atmosphere: When I enter a new town, it should feel different and distinct from the other locations. It should not feel like I walked into another game. Klamath, the Den, Modoc, Gecko, etc, were perfect. Redding had a Western theme going, but it wasn't really that out of place. But New Reno, Arroyo, and (to a lesser extent) San-Fran felt really out of place. New Reno is the most guilty. I admit, I like Reno, but it was so full of spoofs and pop-culture references that it felt like a Mel Brooks film. It changed the feel of the game, and didn't match the other locations. Why are there Thompsons and zoot suits? Yakuza? Why? Hell, NR wasn't a complete disaster, but it felt really out of place. In Ayrro, the Temple of Trials was another oddity. Why is there a D&D dungeon/fortress in the middle of nowhere? They should have had the ToT take place in an underground sewer system or junkyard maze or something.

2) Constant fourth-wall breaches and intrusive silliness: Once in a while is okay, but it seems everywhere you went there would be subtle (or not so subtle) references to the fact that you're playing a game. Cute, but they did it way to often. Very Mel Brooks.

3) The Big Bad End Boss: What I liked about FO was that if you were smart or sneaky enough, you could pretty much go through the game with very little combat. In the end of FO, you could disguise yourself as a CotC, sneak in, and either talk the Master into quitting or blow the place up. It allowed a way for non-combatants to make it through.

In FO2, however, you have Frank Horrigan, who you have to fight. If you’re playing a sneaky or charismatic guy, this is very difficult. Even with EC company's help, and the gun turrets, you're probably going to have to fight him yourself.

OTOH, the fight was pretty fun if your character was up to it. I remember once both me and Frank had crippled legs, he had run out of ammo, and I had actually run out of 2mm ammo (and I didn't think it necessary to carry any other gun) and we ended up limping around, hitting each other w/ melee weapons (I had the super sledge) . . . uh, anyway, they should have allowed a non-combat option.

Criticisms on Fallout in general:

1) Hyperaggresive Townsfolk: If you're walking down the street and you see some maniac with Power Armour and a chaingun mow somebody down, what would you:

a) Ignore him and go about your business.

b) Say "We don't like your kind around here" and attack him with your fists.

c) Throw rocks at him.

d) Run like hell.

If you answered anything but "d," you have a successful career as a Fallout Townsfolk ahead of you. I mean, really, if I do something bad in a town, I expect people to do something about it. But they shouldn't act like zombies and attack me en mass. Most unarmed people run when guns start going off. Even the ones that don't care should at least try to get out of the way.

The game Arcanum is really bad about this. If you try to break into someone's home in the middle of the night and one guard sees you and you kill him, the entire town will attack you on sight from then on.

That's pretty silly.

2) Inventory - nuff said.

3) Weapon damage: This is a tricky topic because if weapons were too realistic, the game wouldn't be fun. But, OTOH, there is something intrinsically absurd about me and a raider taking turns shooting .44 Magnum bullets into each other's chest. Bullets should be more or less deadly. Ditto for melee weapons. How many spear thrusts does it take to kill someone?

Once again Arcanum was really bad about this (I think it took like 50 bullets to kill an average guy)

Also, on a related note, you should be able to knock someone unconscious without killing them. Most fist fights don't end with someone dead.

I think that's it.

-Tak
 
TakLoufer said:
FO felt rather empty.

Thats part of the idea. The world is dead. Theres very little left. That said, there could have been more locations to make it more fun.

TakLoufer said:
1) Incoherent atmosphere: When I enter a new town, it should feel different and distinct from the other locations. It should not feel like I walked into another game. Klamath, the Den, Modoc, Gecko, etc, were perfect. Redding had a Western theme going, but it wasn't really that out of place. But New Reno, Arroyo, and (to a lesser extent) San-Fran felt really out of place. New Reno is the most guilty. I admit, I like Reno, but it was so full of spoofs and pop-culture references that it felt like a Mel Brooks film. It changed the feel of the game, and didn't match the other locations. Why are there Thompsons and zoot suits? Yakuza? Why? Hell, NR wasn't a complete disaster, but it felt really out of place. In Ayrro, the Temple of Trials was another oddity. Why is there a D&D dungeon/fortress in the middle of nowhere? They should have had the ToT take place in an underground sewer system or junkyard maze or something.

I REALLY agree with this. Especily the MelBrooks joke.




TakLoufer said:
1) Hyperaggresive Townsfolk
Yeah, Ive always found that annoying too.


TakLoufer said:
3) Weapon damage:
I agree. This also gave me an idea..........



TakLoufer said:
Also, on a related note, you should be able to knock someone unconscious without killing them. Most fist fights don't end with someone dead.

Yeah, it would also make kidnaping/capturing people possible. VERY useful for a slaver.
 
Fallout: No option to play after the end (though it makes sense). That's about all really.

Fallout 2: New Reno, San Francisco, Temple of Trials (though I blame Interplay for this), main quest is boring until the end (GECK? wtf!)

Both: Broken skills, broken feats, horrible music, not enough text (yes I'm a Torment fan :P)
 
Oh yeah, and also . . . the A.I.

There really should be some sort of A.I. programming that keeps my buddies from shooting me with automatic weapons.

Marcus was really bad at this . . . NEVER give marcus a chaingun.

FO2 was better at this, but it didn't always work.
 
One thing I wanted (but this applies to nearly all games) was the ability to be able to have employment... Nothing really major, but it would be lovely to finish the game, then go to Shady Sands after getting kicked out of the vault, and having a lovely little farming life, something like Harvest Moon, and being able to marry Tandi. :P

Also, some of the locations lacked that special something, like the Brotherhood of Steel. I always thought it would have been nice to have a shanty town clinging onto the side of it, using the Brotherhood's patrols as a barrier against raiding parties, and ruined towns with an occasional madman rambling about his long dead family

Well, that was my first post, hope you appreciate my input.
 
TakLoufer said it! I agree 100%.

And I also need to mention that I wish both games were loooooonger:)
 
Drag0n_Fr0G said:
Also, some of the locations lacked that special something, like the Brotherhood of Steel. I always thought it would have been nice to have a shanty town clinging onto the side of it, using the Brotherhood's patrols as a barrier against raiding parties, and ruined towns with an occasional madman rambling about his long dead family

Well, that was my first post, hope you appreciate my input.
There's a problem with that though. The Brotherhood was very untrusting of anybody that wasn't part of the Brotherhood, and they wouldn't want a lot of people hanging around to be targets for raiders in the first place.
 
I seriusly don't understand why some don't like the music, in my opinion it was the absolute most perfect thing of the whole game(with a few exceptions from FO2) and added a LOT of atmosphere...
 
The Cathedral music is so perfect for the location, conveying the sense of what was lost, and that somethings not quite right...........
 
My main problem is the gratuitious nature of F02. Fallout 1 used adult themes and curse words when it felt right, but most of this in Fallout 2 felt like it was just there for shock value. This comes again back to New Reno, which just doesn't fit in! I like that town, don't get be wrong but it is not in the right game!
 
ermm...i really, really hated sulik in fo2...he couldnt shoot without hitting anyone from my team from anywhere...and he switched on the singles when he had already hit somebody (not me of course, if he hit me, he still kept bursting)..and so i let him use a ripper until the end...but he is useful in the beginning though..:P
 
Weapon damage: This is a tricky topic because if weapons were too realistic, the game wouldn't be fun. But, OTOH, there is something intrinsically absurd about me and a raider taking turns shooting .44 Magnum bullets into each other's chest. Bullets should be more or less deadly. Ditto for melee weapons. How many spear thrusts does it take to kill someone?

This is an issue with pretty much any RPG system, because they are dealing with many factors in a simplified and abstract way. Especially uncalled shots, in Fallout's case they include the victim's willpower and ability to function with injury, the severity and location of impact, sheer chance/luck/divine influence, armor, etc. Keeping in mind also that experience level represents exceptional attributes in a person; most level-0 civilians in the game wouldn't take more than one or two shots.

Anyway, it can be quite suprising how different people respond to wounds in real life depending on the circumstances. Soldiers and law officers have emptied magazines into people who keep coming, with and without drugs in the equation. You can take a bullet to the head and live. Rounds have been known to richochet off bone and travel extensively throughout the body for better or worse. Melee combat is particularily unpredictable and sensitive to placement--it could take quite a few stabs and spear thrusts to kill someone if you don't know what you're doing :). Some of these situations are unusual yes, but again hit points scale with experience level, which represents an unusual luck/ability/skill/etc

I actually think that Fallout handled damage very well; it managed to remain a very deadly game where nearly anyone could get a lucky shot and kill you instantly even in APA--you were still human under all that protection. Also, armour and different ammo types actually served an interesting function, and equipment scaled pretty well to keep a challenge up while giving a massive advantage over foes in old locations.

horrible music
Bah! BOo! Booooo to you! Fallout had the best score of any game I've ever played. It did at least as much for the atmosphere and mood as any other single element in the game. Hell I have the extracted .wavs in my playlist; they still sound wonderful. But we are all free to our opinions :)

I also don't understand the graphics complaint. Fallout has some of the most visually compelling artwork and visual design I've seen in a game. It not only serves the atmosphere but provides new meaning to the overall piece that is not intrinsic to the storyline or gameplay. It might be low resolution/color depth, but the concept and artwork itself is beautiful. When I try to think of successful mis en scene in computer games, Fallout is one of the few examples that comes to mind.

And they looked great to me in 97 anyway :)



Stuff I didn't like (and hasn't been mentioned AFAIK):
Ammo types didn't have much of a noticable impact to me. I found AP rounds useless; their reduced damage and hollow-point's multiplier were redundant, making the gap ridiculously wide. You would still usually do more damage with HP rounds anyway. AP rounds shouldn't have had a divider, and/or had a better chance of bypassing armor completely.

NPCs always having the same graphics. Well, I'm not sure how they would have handled telling them apart other than their floating text.

I really wanted to retain an NPC's personality (or have some impact on function) in the brain bot :)

I never thought the aimed shot chart made much sense. There really should be a couple more targets in the torso itself at least. The groin-eyes were pretty much the only useful targets (usually in that combination). It would have been nice to have crippled arms prevent he use of weapons completely, useless legs drop the person, have more useful crits to the torso (lungs, liver, heart, solar plexus).

The seperation of small guns, heavy guns, and energy weapons was a little awkward. It took so long to find any heavy/energy weapons that it didn't make much sense to tag or even raise them in the early game, even with the Tag! perk. On the other hand, they shouldn't be introduced any sooner (if anything, later and more rarely), and it doesn't make sense to be learning about handling a plasma rifle you've never seen "just in case it works that way." I dunno how to handle this one.

The combat inventory solution. I would have rathered see it take 0AP to open the inventory and have each action take some AP depending on complexity. In Fallout, between magnum shots you could organize your trinket collection, get drunk, reload all your weapons, etc... or, you might need to pop a quick stimpack, but you only have 3AP left. Great.

And lastly, I hated not being able to "attack ground" or something with grenades, flares, and rocket launchers.
 
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