What Fallout 4 should've included

[CerberusGate]

Still bullshit

(I chose the Harry Potter one because magic must be countered with magic)

First, why is there even witchhunter gear in a world without magic?
Second... okay this one is alright but it would be included into mods or patches so a whole DLC dedicated to bring this in is a waste.
Third, they all died out. This is ESTABLISHED LORE!
Fourth, there is no need. Mods and patches.
Fifth, that sounds like a pointless gimmick that would not survive in the reality of a post-apocalyptic world.
Sixth, mods and patches can bring those in so it's again, POINTLESS!
Seventh, holographic enemies are only in the Sierra Madre. ESTABLISHED LORE states that the tech was experimental and only existed in that capacity at the Madre alone.

EDIT: Even if your suggestions are sarcastic, what you are saying are things Bethesdrones are already suggesting on a regular basis to Bethesda all the time. We don't need reminders that their fanbase is filled with those immature children, we get that from trolls already.

 

[CT Phipps]

I'm sure everyone in Fallout 1 AND 2 is spinning around in their graves because of this. Even Frank Fucking Horrigan.

Yes, because when I think Fallout 1 and 2, I don't think awesome.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Yes, because when I think Fallout 1 and 2, I don't think awesome.

You can have awesome things in a game, but the problem is that Bethesda and you put too much emphasis on it at the cost of other things.

 

[CT Phipps]

You can have awesome things in a game, but the problem is that Bethesda and you put too much emphasis on it at the cost of other things.

The thing is, I wasn't kidding. Seriously. Where is there anything awesome in Fallout 4? It is absent of it.

Fallout 1 and 2 was full of iconic creations and wonders which made it a magical post-apocalypse Oz to visit.

Fallout 3 had a lot of haunting emotionally powerful images even if the writing was weak. It had Rivet City, Megaton, Tranquility Lane, and Liberty Prime.

New Vegas had Mister House, Caesar's Legion, the Boomers, Ranger Armor, and other iconic fascinating stuff.

What...where the OOOMPH of Fallout 4?

It's just so....banal.

 

[NovaRain]

Yeah, when someone thinks rule of cool is more important then writing (unless the writing is also cool)... game industry and good writing dies.

For me, good writing in game industry died when Emil Pagliarulo received 2008 GDC "Best Writing" award with Fallout 3.

 

[CerberusGate]

Honestly, Fallout 4 was bitterly disappointing because there WASN'T anything cool in the game. Wouldn't Rule of Cool ruining Fallout 3 and 4 require them to actually have awesome shit in it?

The Rule of Cool is something I vehemently oppose as someone who looks at fiction. If I were to make a story, I would not add in flashy gimmicks or pointless additions simply because it would be cool.

If I were to add something in, it would be something that makes sense in the world and will not break the suspension of disbelief. If it is cool, it would be a bonus rather than the point. It is the reason why many works of fiction establish rules and systems for the worlds they depict. Adding in cool shit because it would be cool at the detriment of the established lore and setting only hurts the aforesaid lore and setting.

As a writer, I thought you of all people could recognise this fact.

 

[CT Phipps]

I love good writing. I want more of it.

But I don't mind awesome stuff either.

And Fallout 4 had neither.

 

[CerberusGate]

I love good writing. I want more of it.

But I don't mind awesome stuff either.

And Fallout 4 had neither.

Then demand for good writing. Don't prioritise demand for cool shit.

The Holorifle is one of my favourite items from New Vegas but it was not only cool. It made sense in writing as Elijah details how he built the rifle from tech obtained in the Big Mountain and how he made it for use in the Madre. He even lies about having more of it to you and secretly resents the fact he gave away his one-of-a-kind prototype weapon.

EDIT: It gave the weapon background and made me give a damn about it more than most weapons I bought or found. It's still my favourite Fallout weapon of all time.

 

[Dr Fallout]

The thing is, I wasn't kidding. Seriously. Where is there anything awesome in Fallout 4? It is absent of it.

Fallout 1 and 2 was full of iconic creations and wonders which made it a magical post-apocalypse Oz to visit.

Fallout 3 had a lot of haunting emotionally powerful images even if the writing was weak. It had Rivet City, Megaton, Tranquility Lane, and Liberty Prime.

New Vegas had Mister House, Caesar's Legion, the Boomers, Ranger Armor, and other iconic fascinating stuff.

What...where the OOOMPH of Fallout 4?

It's just so....banal.

You list great examples of writing (part from Fallout 3) that are also really cool yet make up a Nuka World goofball example.

 

[CT Phipps]

The Rule of Cool is something I vehemently oppose as someone who looks at fiction. If I were to make a story, I would not add in flashy gimmicks or pointless additions simply because it would be cool.

If I were to add something in, it would be something that makes sense in the world and will not break the suspension of disbelief. If it is cool, it would be a bonus rather than the point. It is the reason why many works of fiction establish rules and systems for the worlds they depict. Adding in cool shit because it would be cool at the detriment of the established lore and setting only hurts the aforesaid lore and setting.

As a writer, I thought you of all people could recognise this fact.

Speaking as a writer, I think Fallout appeals to me for its ability to justify so many fascinating and amazing bits of lore and storytelling potential. It's very similar to Star Wars in the respect the Post-Apocalypse World can tell all manner of stories from science-fiction, Wild West, supernatural, and heartrending stories of the futility of war.

Fallout is a setting which is drenched in cool and I love it for it because it's also justified by the setting andconsistent with the post-apocalypse world having changed in so many strange and fascinating ways. The Rule of CoolTM is not an excuse to justify amazing and awesome things and if it breaks a reader's immersion, should be thrown out.

But I do think of Fallout as a place with an army of mutants versus a Gunslinging Cowboy and his robot buddy and dog.

 

[Dr Fallout]

But I do think of Fallout as a place with an army of mutants versus a Gunslinging Cowboy and his robot buddy and dog.

Except it isn't, not according to the original.

 

[CT Phipps]

Then demand for good writing. Don't prioritise demand for cool shit.

The Holorifle is one of my favourite items from New Vegas but it was not only cool. It made sense in writing as Elijah details how he built the rifle from tech obtained in the Big Mountain and how he made it for use in the Madre. He even lies about having more of it to you and secretly resents the fact he gave away his one-of-a-kind prototype weapon.

EDIT: It gave the weapon background and made me give a damn about it more than most weapons I bought or found. It's still my favourite Fallout weapon of all time.

Ironically, the Sierra Madre is pretty much iconic of the design philosophy I favor despite how much I did not enjoy that DLC. The Sierra Madre is a ghost story. It is a ghost story about a haunted casino. Everything in the DLC is facilitated around making the player character play by the rules of a ghost story (no equipment, invincible enemies) with the rest of the game thrown out for the fact it's a different genre. However, it's a COOL Ghost Story which justifies all the ghosts and supernatural elements with the lore of the setting.

In the end you win by learning about the secret of the ghosts and what is keeping them haunting this place.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Ironically, the Sierra Madre is pretty much iconic of the design philosophy I favor despite how much I did not enjoy that DLC. The Sierra Madre is a ghost story. It is a ghost story about a haunted casino. Everything in the game is facilitated around making the player character play by the rules of a ghost story (no equipment, invincible enemies) with the rest of the game thrown out for the fact it's a different genre. However, it's a COOL Ghost Story which justifies all the ghosts and supernatural elements with the lore of the setting.

Ghost story about a haunted casino? Firstly, the holograms are rarely found and they're well explained taking out any mystery for them. The mutants, maybe so but they're very upfront about it and more akin to conventional enemies then ghosts. Calling it a ghost story misses the point and well written story in my opinion.

 

[CerberusGate]

Fallout is a setting which is drenched in cool and I love it for it because it's also justified by the setting and
consistent with the post-apocalypse world having changed in so many strange and fascinating ways.
The Rule of CoolTM is not an excuse to justify amazing and awesome things and if it breaks a reader's immersion, should be thrown out.

But I do think of Fallout as a place with an army of mutants versus a Gunslinging Cowboy and his robot buddy and dog.

The problem with that idea when applied to Fallout is that it actually has established rules, systems and lore. The world of Fallout has enough norms and background attached to it that outlandish ideas and changes are noticeable. Imagine mentioning the idea of Wifi in the Fallout world and placing said idea in the game. NMA and lore purists everywhere will notice this and call out Bethesda for such a fallacy. Even the X-01 found in Nuka World (a major lore inconsistency) is primarily considered to be a lore inconsistency by most of the fandom.

It is not a good idea to add in what seems 'cool' all because it makes it fun.

Ironically, the Sierra Madre is pretty much iconic of the design philosophy I favor despite how much I did not enjoy that DLC. The Sierra Madre is a ghost story. It is a ghost story about a haunted casino. Everything in the game is facilitated around making the player character play by the rules of a ghost story (no equipment, invincible enemies) with the rest of the game thrown out for the fact it's a different genre. However, it's a COOL Ghost Story which justifies all the ghosts and supernatural elements with the lore of the setting.

It is helped that the game acknowledges the extremely high tech in the Madre while keeping in mind that tech in pre-War times was extremely advanced and later establishes how all that tech only works as prototypes. The writers were able to justify the interesting elements and not add it in because it was sounded cool. @Dr Fallout explains it better than me.

 

[CT Phipps]

Ghost story about a haunted casino? Firstly, the holograms are rarely found and they're well explained taking out any mystery for them. The mutants, maybe so but they're very upfront about it and more akin to conventional enemies then ghosts. Calling it a ghost story misses the point and well written story in my opinion.

It's symbolically a ghost story is what I'm saying and I'm actually saying. I also don't disagree with it being a good thing to justify the holograms that way.

But the intro...

You've heard of the Sierra Madre Casino. We all have, the legend, the curses. Some foolishness about it lying in the middle of the City of Dead, a city of ghosts. Buried beneath a blood-red cloud, a bright, shining monument luring treasure hunters to their doom.

Well I think it's evocative of that is all I'm saying. Just like Old World Blues is a B-science fiction movie parody.

It is helped that the game acknowledges the extremely high tech in the Madre while keeping in mind that tech in pre-War times was extremely advanced and later establishes how all that tech only works as prototypes. The writers were able to justify the interesting elements and not add it in because it was sounded cool. @Dr Fallout explains it better than me.

My point, just to clarify is, "You don't have to break lore to have weird and awesome stuff."

 

[CerberusGate]

You've heard of the Sierra Madre Casino. We all have, the legend, the curses. Some foolishness about it lying in the middle of the City of Dead, a city of ghosts. Buried beneath a blood-red cloud, a bright, shining monument luring treasure hunters to their doom.

Well I think it's evocative of that is all I'm saying. Just like Old World Blues is a B-science fiction movie parody.

It also brings an idea to mind: the idea that the legacy of the pre-War era lives on and continues to plague the present. That the past has ways to haunt you in the present which is presented by each character haunted by their pasts and unable to let go of them.

 

[Dr Fallout]

It's symbolically a ghost story is what I'm saying and I'm actually saying. I also don't disagree with it being a good thing to justify the holograms that way.

But the intro...

You've heard of the Sierra Madre Casino. We all have, the legend, the curses. Some foolishness about it lying in the middle of the City of Dead, a city of ghosts. Buried beneath a blood-red cloud, a bright, shining monument luring treasure hunters to their doom.

Well I think it's evocative of that is all I'm saying. Just like Old World Blues is a B-science fiction movie parody.

Oh sure, but that's the set up. It's supposed to be a legendary location, but the story moves on to other themes.

My point, just to clarify is, "You don't have to break lore to have weird and awesome stuff."

True, but in doing so also don't be stupid. Many of the things you found cool was retarded beyond measure (Chinese invasion of East coast? Umm how would that work? And so on).

 

[CT Phipps]

The problem with that idea when applied to Fallout is that it actually has established rules, systems and lore. The world of Fallout has enough norms and background attached to it that outlandish ideas and changes are noticeable. Imagine mentioning the idea of Wifi in the Fallout world and placing said idea in the game. NMA and lore purists everywhere will notice this and call out Bethesda for such a fallacy. Even the X-01 found in Nuka World (a major lore inconsistency) is primarily considered to be a lore inconsistency by most of the fandom.

It is not a good idea to add in what seems 'cool' all because it makes it fun.

Nuka World is pretty much an ideal DLC for me and yet it does suffer severe flaws for the fact its developers don't try to weave it closer to established lore and writing. The Nuka Armor is fine as the relationship between propaganda, corporations, and the United States military is a well-established one. The XO-1 Nuka Armor, however, is just ridiculous and lore-breaking because they don't even TRY to justify it.

It could be weird or funny or serious.

"Sierra Petrovita and her sister Maggie grew up in Raven's Rock where Nuka Cola was their shared obsession under the Enclave's rule. Eventually, Sierra ran away from the Enclave and abandoned her duty but Maggie remained loyal. Maggie eventually journeyed to Nuka World like she and her sister promised. While her squad didn't understand her obsession, she indulged herself up to the point of painting her power armor Quantum blue. Dying saving her squadron from Nuka Lurks, they erected her armor as a makeshift tombstone and locked it away before retreating with Project Cobalt's data."

You could then give the holotape of this factoid to Sierra if you haven't murdered her by that point.

 

[CerberusGate]

"Sierra Petrovita and her sister Maggie grew up in Raven's Rock where Nuka Cola was their shared obsession under the Enclave's rule. Eventually, Sierra ran away from the Enclave and abandoned her duty but Maggie remained loyal. Maggie eventually journeyed to Nuka World like she and her sister promised. While her squad didn't understand her obsession, she indulged herself up to the point of painting her power armor Quantum blue. Dying saving her squadron from Nuka Lurks, they erected her armor as a makeshift tombstone and locked it away before retreating with Project Cobalt's data."

Too bad this is only your head-canon and not what actually happens since the armor is in a display case rather than some make-shift tomb.

 

[CT Phipps]

Too bad this is only your head-canon and not what actually happens since the armor is in a display case rather than some make-shift tomb.

It's absolutely a headcanon as Bethesda just threw it in. I think the armor is gorgeous and would love to wear it but it's lore-breaking and that's off-putting.

For a less melodramatic and fanficcy example. "It's not actually X0-1 armor but something which looks similar."

Or hell, put it on the damn T-60 armor. Why put it on the most singularly difficult to justify armor?