What is your favorite Deus Ex game

[Ausdoerrt]

Now I am not asking that extreme ridiculous stuff like 'Hollow Earth' theory, or Nazis on the moon, or Hitler surviving through cloning would be incorporated, but it seems to me the major appeal to you was that the game was a cyberpunk corporate thriller.

Assuming that Illuminati is any less ridiculous than Nazis on the moon etc. Just because it defines Deus Ex for some people, doesn't mean I need to appreciate it or "miss the point". You can easily have a cyberpunk corporate thriller without over-the-top conspiracy theories - see Ghost in the Shell.

As for consumables, I did not mean snacks but stuff like expendable combat armor, hazard suits, and that sort of stuff that was included in Deus Ex 1 for gamers who did not invest skills or augmentation points in such abilities.

I personally found those pretty useless, you had to invest into the skill to use them to make them actually last for a significant amount of time. Plus they didn't stack, and took up inventory space. Anyway, HR was obviously not designed with those in mind, and frankly I never missed them. In HR, most of such obstacles are simply shorter, easier alternate routes unlike DX.

I think gamers who would prefer to play a non hacker would have loved to have this item in the regular game editions, they are now forced to invest into hacker skills which sort of goes against the spirit of the original game in which any type of player (action, hacker, stealth) could continue the game.

The original spirit of the game has already been screwed over by boss battles, which tell you you better invest into combat skills OR ELSE. A non-hacking character is absolutely feasible, though, since all "important" doors are security rating 1. Challenging, since you'd be constantly short on XP and money, and missing out on some side-quests, but doable. Especially since often enough you can just find codes or alternate routes. I do agree that stuff in the special edition should've been in the full game - not so much concerned about the silenced sniper (tranquilizer's just as good) or grenade launcher (smaller faster rocket basically, with next to no ammo available.), but I see no reason for the AUDs not to be there. Those are for locks only though, computers still have to be done by hand.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Assuming that Illuminati is any less ridiculous than Nazis on the moon etc. Just because it defines Deus Ex for some people, doesn't mean I need to appreciate it or "miss the point". You can easily have a cyberpunk corporate thriller without over-the-top conspiracy theories - see Ghost in the Shell.

Deus Ex is not Ghost in the Shell.

 

[Multidirectional]

The original spirit of the game has already been screwed over by boss battles, which tell you you better invest into combat skills OR ELSE.

I played through it with non-lethal (mostly) stealth character and I killed all the bosses on hardest difficulty anyway. I did not invest a single point in aiming or resistance augs. Yes those encounters weren't exactly examples of good design but they are doable with any character and there are usually helpful pickups in the area, like heavy rifles or grenades.

 

[Ausdoerrt]

Deus Ex is not Ghost in the Shell.

Your point? Or did you just not read my post?

I played through it with non-lethal (mostly) stealth character and I killed all the bosses on hardest difficulty anyway. I did not invest a single point in aiming or resistance augs. Yes those encounters weren't exactly examples of good design but they are doable with any character and there are usually helpful pickups in the area, like heavy rifles or grenades.

I don't know, I played as hacker (mostly), and I had trouble until I discovered the cheese, and boss battles went from impossible to boring. "Doable" is a nice word though; something may be doable, but I don't really want to sit through the loading screen 20-30 times in a row just because the boss kills you in 10 seconds if you don't have the "right" augs and/or equipment. In any case, I think my point that the game forcing you into a situation where direct confrontation is the only option goes against the original flexible spirit still stands.

 

[Crni Vuk]

yes I did. maybe to your surprise

And my point is that Deus Ex is not Ghost in the shell.

The illuminati have been a quite important part to the story. Not to mention the conspiracy and the paranoia around it.

That not everyone likes this is alright. But for me it was something I loved about Deus Ex. - It was over the top and I think it is what made Deus Ex somehow Deus Ex. I mean com on you also had mutants and alien-like creatures in the end. Ghost in the Shell is a much more serious kind of story.

 

[Wintermind]

LIke I said earlier, blame Square for the boss battles. That's not how Eidos planned on doing them.

They're also not hard without any of the combat skill purchses, either. Or do you just roleplay someone who can't aim without spending Praxis points on it?

 

[Crni Vuk]

you could always try to role play someone who sucks in boss battles.

 

[Wintermind]

you could always try to role play someone who sucks in boss battles.

I can't they're too easy

 

[Ausdoerrt]

Ghost in the Shell is a much more serious kind of story.

Well, my problem with DX's story was that it did try to take itself seriously, despite being ridiculous at times. Besides, the whole Illuminati/Knights Templar bullshit didn't fit very well into the cyberpunk setting.

They're also not hard without any of the combat skill purchses, either. Or do you just roleplay someone who can't aim without spending Praxis points on it?

I dunno, unless you're lugging around lots of explosives and/or invested into the typhoon skill, the bosses can be pretty damn hard. Considering that you can empty two combat rifle clips into the head from point-blank and that'd do nothing...

 

[Crni Vuk]

I've seen a couple of cyberpunk stories with "templar knights" and such.

It all depends on the writing really.

I mean do dragons and orcs really fit to cyberpunk ? Yet Shadowrun is one of the most famous cyberpunk/fantasy games out there. - I am not saying fantasy and magic should be part of Deus Ex or even fit to "everything". I am just saying that depending on the skill of the writers it would be not completely impossible to have templar knights, illuminati and other organizations in the game. What I never liked about Deus Ex 2 for example was how "visible" everything was with the Templars for example. Particularly the end part of the game was absolute shit in my eyes.

 

[Ilosar]

It wasn't their presence, but their omnipresence that was the problem. Make no mistake, Deus Ex had a good story, but it got ridiculous at times. Especially with all the power MJ12 had (Commandos and the like just walking in the streets and gunning people down? ain't they supposed to be a secret organization or somesuch?) and the technology, mostly the Universal Constructors; I know, experimental tech and nanites and all, but creating living beings out of thin air is more 50-s Old World Blues style Science! than anything taking itself seriously. I liked how Human Revolution tackled the fact that technology and augmentations aren't to be trifled with, have limits, and are something more than shiny toys to be called on as the plot demands.

Incidently, what are you guys's positions on augmentation? At first I was like, hell yeah, robot arms of awesomeness, but then you realize you basically have your limbs chopped off, replaced by metal, and you need to take a crippling drug so that it actually stays there. Stuff like what Malik has, neuro-enhancements to help you do your job, that is something else I guess, but I wouldn't get full augs. Well, maybe Sarif's stylish arm. Just maybe.

 

[Sabirah]

It wasn't their presence, but their omnipresence that was the problem. Make no mistake, Deus Ex had a good story, but it got ridiculous at times. Especially with all the power MJ12 had (Commandos and the like just walking in the streets and gunning people down? ain't they supposed to be a secret organization or somesuch?) and the technology, mostly the Universal Constructors; I know, experimental tech and nanites and all, but creating living beings out of thin air is more 50-s Old World Blues style Science! than anything taking itself seriously. I liked how Human Revolution tackled the fact that technology and augmentations aren't to be trifled with, have limits, and are something more than shiny toys to be called on as the plot demands.

Incidently, what are you guys's positions on augmentation? At first I was like, hell yeah, robot arms of awesomeness, but then you realize you basically have your limbs chopped off, replaced by metal, and you need to take a crippling drug so that it actually stays there. Stuff like what Malik has, neuro-enhancements to help you do your job, that is something else I guess, but I wouldn't get full augs. Well, maybe Sarif's stylish arm. Just maybe.

I would like something to make me smarter. Although, I'd wait until the drug became obsolete. What's the point of having a neuro enhancement if you are selling yourself to pay for the drug to make it not kill you?

In the real world I love the idea of augmentations but honestly I'd rather look like myself than be a clunky tin can walking around

 

[Wintermind]

Ghost in the Shell is a much more serious kind of story.

Well, my problem with DX's story was that it did try to take itself seriously, despite being ridiculous at times. Besides, the whole Illuminati/Knights Templar bullshit didn't fit very well into the cyberpunk setting.

They're also not hard without any of the combat skill purchses, either. Or do you just roleplay someone who can't aim without spending Praxis points on it?

I dunno, unless you're lugging around lots of explosives and/or invested into the typhoon skill, the bosses can be pretty damn hard. Considering that you can empty two combat rifle clips into the head from point-blank and that'd do nothing...

I think you just suck, because I never had that much a problem with the bosses. With just shooting 'em. with a pistol. Grenades/mines only make things easier, and if you're going non-lethal you have plenty of room for them.

 

[Ausdoerrt]

I think you just suck, because I never had that much a problem with the bosses. With just shooting 'em. with a pistol.

Awright, Mr. 1337sause gamer, you're so keewl and awesome. This makes you an elite species and all blahblah. Not really though.

 

[Wintermind]

There was supposed to be a might in there. Didn't intended for it read so dickish. But seriously, I'm not jumping 360 no-scope-headshot from across the map dude, but after figuring out the bosses they were relative cakewalks. I do think they're dumb cakewalks that should not be in the game (with instead actually interesting challenges as a 'boss' fight, whether it's some story related dude or whatever, but I jus don't see how they're so difficult.

 

[ramessesjones]

I was disappointed with Human Revolution. I found the writing and the choice/consequence to stuff to be really lacking, especially playing it right after New Vegas and Alpha Protocol. The story just seems to try to jam as many cyberpunk cliches in as possible. I didn't like the leveling system much as their didn't seem be all much flexibility to create a good variety of characters, and some upgrades seemed way better than others and I didn't like Adam was basically set in appearance, voice and personality. Basically the role playing side of the game I thought was really weak.

As the stealth/shooting side was good, but didn't seem like anything too amazing. The boss fights were weak and I didn't like that very specific upgrades (the emp shielding for example) made some much easier. I also still don't know I defeated the final boss, nothing I did seemed to do anything, but eventually I won anyway.

I still thought it was a fairly good game, but I don't ever see myself replaying it.

 

[ZeusComplex]

It's kind of hard to be a hidden threat when you already know who they are.

I'm rather glad it played down the conspiracy elements. We know who the Illuminati are and seeing another conspiracy "who is really the bad guy" storyline would of made the game seem like it was trying hard to be like the original. It still was a mystery though, if a bit predicable, but served a great way of telling another side of the Illuminati threat without repeating too many of the same plot points of the first.

The bosses where not hard. It was the lack of choice that pissed me off. Where where the kill switches? The different ways to approach a fight using turrets or robots? Heck, one element missing from the game was how they handled many of the antagonists encounters. I could run into some of them in low mundane moments of the game. Killing them in these moments would simply mean you wouldn't have to deal with them later. If you did pass up these opportunities, they would fight you more prepared making the encounter much more harder.

 

[Ilosar]

The only bosses who returned were Navarre and Walton Simons, IIRC; Gunther you almost had to kill unless you kinda exploited his AI and made him run after you; you could do the same to Simons. Bosses in Deus Ex weren't extraordinary (they didn't even use special abilities, like those in HR, despite being either advanced mechano augs or a nano-aug suposedly as strong as JC himself). What made them special were the killphrases, and Eidos wanted them in but Square Enix said no for whatever reason. Combined with the outsourcing, it explains why boss fights are so jarringly different from the rest of the game. At least you can use alternate methods for two of them.

 

[Guiltyofbeingtrite]

Just finished HR, pacifist, no alarms, hardest difficulty, woo.

At first I was utterly in love with the game, I thought the world was amazing and loved the interactions with Sarif in his office, I felt like I was really in an epic cyberpunk adventure. Detroit itself was also great and I was floored with the amount of options one had in the Police station, I spent hours there and can't wait to replay it for that area.

However, I think the story and locations fell apart by the time I hit Hengsha. I didn't know upper Hengsha was cut but now it makes sense based on how many times it was referenced. I think the game could have done a lot better with at least 3 more hubs and more sidequests in the vein of Detroit's, which were great. I also thought it was a huge cop out to return to both detroit AND Hengsha so early in the game.

Back on the plot and setting, I thought they handled the politics of enhancement extremely well and I was expecting it to be even deeper, but found that like everything else, it sortof fizzled away once I hit Hengsha.

On the mechanics: the guard routes were too easy and predictable for the most part, I liked the occasional walking backwards while looking around, but it should have been random. Boss fights were incredibly simple, and it was the absolute easiest final boss fight i've ever encountered.

I'll probably post more as a digest it further, I'm just feeling pretty bummed by the enormous potential for story telling it had but how predictable it ended up.

 

[Ausdoerrt]

I also thought it was a huge cop out to return to both detroit AND Hengsha so early in the game.

To be fair, the original Deus Ex did the same thing, and its areas were smaller, too.

Back on the plot and setting, I thought they handled the politics of enhancement extremely well and I was expecting it to be even deeper, but found that like everything else, it sortof fizzled away once I hit Hengsha.

I guess you missed all the conversations (and even a side-quest) about employers forcing employees to get them against their will, a sort of flip-side of the American political/legal battle. They did fail to tie the two well, I'll give you that, but that's more of the end-game fault.

On the mechanics: the guard routes were too easy and predictable for the most part, I liked the occasional walking backwards while looking around, but it should have been random. Boss fights were incredibly simple, and it was the absolute easiest final boss fight i've ever encountered.

Yes and no, the routes become a lot more random and complex if they're actively looking for you ("alarmed" state). At least I found them challenging enough.