What the fuck happened to Fallout 4's weapons?

Of course Bethesda is lazy.

Look at all their new games, hilariously backwards in design in most areas from RPG elements, to damage mechanics.
 
Bethesda summed up with one image:


im-number-one-so-why-try-harder.jpg
 
ThatZenoGuy said:
Of course Bethesda is lazy.

Look at all their new games, hilariously backwards in design in most areas from RPG elements, to damage mechanics.
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I disagree.

While I don't like any of their last few games, (or consider them RPGs really), I do think that they are calculated efforts, and are carefully targeting the largest consumer-base possible.
One rarely ever sells that many copies of a game by random fluke (and/or repeats this with their next game). It may not be Fallout ~it may not even be TES anymore, but it sells to an enormous audience, and that can't be accidental.

Rather: I think they simply do not care about the IP (or its fans), beyond mere profitability... but for that they put in a hell of a lot of skillful effort.
These 'lazy' aspects of their games I do think are (mostly, if not entirely) intentional on their part; but not out of laziness.
 
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Gizmojunk said:
I disagree.

While I don't like any of their last few games, (or consider them RPGs really), I do think that they are calculated efforts, and are carefully targeting the largest consumer-base possible.
One rarely ever sells that many copies of a game by random fluke (and/or repeats this with their next game). It may not be Fallout ~it may not even be TES anymore, but it sells to an enormous audience, and that can't be accidental.
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I disagree. If they weren't lazy they wouldn't have grab a game and made it special edition without even patching the original game's bugs. They are so lazy they didn't even went to the effort of just get the unofficial patch and merge it with their game in the special edition of Skyrim. If that isn't lazy I don't know what is...
Even just grabbing a 5 years old game and making a port of it to new gen consoles instead of making TES VI is lazy in my opinion.
Also the sales of Fallout 4 and Skyrim were mostly due to two factors that have nothing to do with them not being lazy, first factor is the huge marketing and publicity media campaigns, the second is that many sales after the marketing and the game being released are due to mods. Mods fix many lazy things that Bethesda does not implement or change. SkyUI is such a mod that many people said they will not touch Skyrim SE until SkyUI or a mod like it will appear for example. Bethesda didn't even made any effort to make the UI better and more intuitive for PC in their Special Edition, that is ridiculously lazy since it was one of the biggest complains by the fans of the game on PC.
Another thing to show how lazy they are, Fallout 4 DLCs... Only 2 DLCs that are in scope and size comparable with the Fallout 3/ Skyrim (with exception of Hearfire) DLCs, one that is way smaller in scope and 3 that are settlement stuff.
 
Risewild said:
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I cannot help but see these as proving my point. :smug:

But one does have to ask why they would need to do any of that ~if the game will sell almost as-is, to those they are really trying marketing it to?

I think you may have misunderstood my point... It is that I think their simplification, and total lack of consequence in the games, is intended to flatter the ego of those seeking empowerment fantasy (rather than roleplaying); where all that matters is that they win, and look cool doing it. That and paired with Bethesda's seeming terror of confusing or annoying players with complex dialog, story; and by ever telling the player 'no', instead of 'not yet'. :(

Their intention is never to make a good RPG; they are making reactive sandbox activity apps, and they only care about maintaining the experience indefinitely ~even at the expense of common sense and plausibility. It's why the PC in FO3, can murder a town, and buy back their good name by donating water bottles to vagrants.
 
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I think what is happening, is that some of us classify intentional dumbing down/casualisation as 'lazy'.
 
Is it lazy to meticulously refine a formula... as they have done, and continue to do?
To relentlessly tweak the game to be just tolerable enough for most gamers ~no small task, since it entails blending mutually exclusive game elements, where adding more of one ticks off the audience for the other.

The Fallout IP was ruined because of their policy for inclusion of all gaming tastes in one product; trying to make some mythical thing one can sink their teeth into, while at the same time being soupy, and unseasoned. To actually have the gall to call it an RPG with the tagline, "go anywhere you want, be who you want, do what you want"... when the basis for any RPG is "go where they are able, be who they are, and do what they would ~in the situation". RPGs are about limits, not freedoms.
 
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Gizmojunk said:
Is it lazy to meticulously refine a formula... as they have done, and continue to do?
To relentlessly tweak the game to be just tolerable enough for most gamers ~no small task, since it entails blending mutually exclusive game elements, where adding more of one ticks off the audience for the other.
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I think its pretty lazy to intentionally program simple to play and overall easier to make (barring graphics) due to simpler dialogue and scripts.

Yes.
 
ThatZenoGuy said:
I think its pretty lazy to intentionally program simple to play and overall easier to make (barring graphics) due to simpler dialogue and scripts.

Yes.
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I think it is careful design, directed by well informed marketing. Irrespective [of] and indifferent to fans and established series gameplay, or even IP reputation. They seem to have no qualms about branding something utterly alien to a series, as the next installment of that series.

*It's not laziness, it is impenitent pragmatism. :(
 
Even weapon mods in Fallout 4 have problems. If you are using a rifle with a pistol grip there is a problem when you are in 1st person view. You hold the gun so far out, you can see the stock. (Something to do with having to use the smg animations) So that makes using iron sights a pain in the ass.
 
Gizmojunk said:
But one does have to ask why they would need to do any of that ~if the game will sell almost as-is, to those they are really trying marketing it to?
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That is the very definition of laziness, isn't it? Why do things that will improve the product if it sells well without that extra work.
What I meant is that Bethesda is a lazy company, no wonder how much people report bugs and complain about things they could fix or improve in less than a week just by having 1 to 5 people work on it, they just go "no need to fix or improve the product because we already cash a lot from it.".

That is what I mean by being lazy :nod:.

For example CDPR released The Witcher 2 Remastered and went the extra mile to improve and even add new features and content. They didn't need to do that since The Witcher 2 was a successful game, they could have just improve the graphics a bit and sell it again, but they didn't because they are not lazy.

I don't mean that making games that have little to no RPG in them these days and calling them RPGs, or the simplification of the games is what makes them lazy, it is all the little work and effort they put into their own products that makes them lazy. :whistle:
 
I still don't see that as lazy. When you are making a product on a budget & schedule, you try to stick closely to both. Otherwise you could end up with a losing gamble [a flop, or a Pyrrhic victory] that cost more than you were prepared to lose in either case. Consider a restaurateur who goes all out to please and impress... and does... but loses money on every plate of food served. You can't run a business like that. It probably costs Bethesda about a ½ a million a year just on the electric bill alone; (and then there is the rent, the other utilities, the technology costs, and the employee salaries, and/or wages... and insurance for the company and the employee medical benefits... and the PR events, which are likely scheduled in advance, and the game needs to be ready for them).

What you describe as laziness, could just be them finishing the game on time, and avoiding dumping another [couple!] million into it. This is not a bad thing; it's the mark of a well run company that will likely be around for a while. One can lament what they will about their beautiful shovel-ware, but I don't think it's the result of laziness.
 
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Gizmojunk said:
I still don't see that as lazy. When you are making a product on a budget & schedule, you try to stick closely to both. Otherwise you could end up with a losing gamble [a flop, or a Pyrrhic victory] that cost more than you were prepared to lose in either case. Consider a restaurateur who goes all out to please and impress... and does... but loses money on every plate of food served. You can't run a business like that. It probably costs Bethesda about a ½ a million a year just on the electric bill alone; (and then there is the rent, the other utilities, the technology costs, and the employee salaries, and/or wages... and insurance for the company and the employee medical benefits... and the PR events, which are likely scheduled in advance, and the game needs to be ready for them).

What you describe as laziness, could just be them finishing the game on time, and avoiding dumping another [couple!] million into it. This is not a bad thing; it's the mark of a well run company that will likely be around for a while. One can lament what they will about their beautiful shovel-ware, but I don't think it's the result of laziness.
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Half a million on eletric bills ? That seems alot but I guess they will use alot of computer power. But fallout 4 made 750m and more ? Plus seasson passes that could atleast keep them going for liek what 10 years ? They also have a parent company in bethesda who publishes games. This also generates alot of money so yeah that pretty soild in terms of keeping everything going. You are right though they would probably have to make atleast 250m of a game like fallout 4 that took a long time produce or they might lose money. However they probably made 250m in like one day of the game reales maybe not even day one. Theny you have the seasson pass witch was like 6 months work for $40 or whatever. :ok:

Do bethesda need hand outs ? No even if the next skyrim for example din't sell well they would still be okay right ? Yes they would would be. There a massive coperate comapany they really don't need money sympathey. Serirersouly they don't need that there to make money at the end of the day and their more than capable than that. You need to stop tieing emition to them like that. But you know they defintly need our money. No your wrong. If they don't sell 10 games in a row and they go bust they will have no one to blam. In my job in retail if the store didn't sell enough stuff then it will get shut down. Maybe you cna blame the omuser etc but thats they way it is.

Bethsda want your money nothing else, I think the fallout 4 seasson pass makes this apparent. Their a company and their goal is to make money
 
Gizmojunk said:
I still don't see that as lazy. When you are making a product on a budget & schedule, you try to stick closely to both. Otherwise you could end up with a losing gamble [a flop, or a Pyrrhic victory] that cost more than you were prepared to lose in either case. Consider a restaurateur who goes all out to please and impress... and does... but loses money on every plate of food served. You can't run a business like that. It probably costs Bethesda about a ½ a million a year just on the electric bill alone; (and then there is the rent, the other utilities, the technology costs, and the employee salaries, and/or wages... and insurance for the company and the employee medical benefits... and the PR events, which are likely scheduled in advance, and the game needs to be ready for them).

What you describe as laziness, could just be them finishing the game on time, and avoiding dumping another [couple!] million into it. This is not a bad thing; it's the mark of a well run company that will likely be around for a while. One can lament what they will about their beautiful shovel-ware, but I don't think it's the result of laziness.
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I would say the game was unfinished or even that lazy but what I will say is they didn't really engage their brains as much as they did when making fallout 3. I mean like they forgot some of the writing maybe. I dunno it just feels like they cut conners with choise because their arn't that many in the game.
 
IMO, if you intentionally fuck something up by making an inferior 'mass produced' product, at the cost of your loyal followers, you're lazy.

You can't be bothered to be more efficient and effective, to make better games, you just want to make money ASAP, so you can make another one a year down the line.
 
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