What the fuck happened to Fallout 4's weapons?

Discussion in 'Fallout 4' started by ThatZenoGuy, Nov 9, 2016.

  1. Zerginfestor

    Zerginfestor dear god, the scrapping

    405
    Apr 18, 2015
    guys are taking his bait pretty hard, I suggest making a new thread for this level of discussion and derpiness.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  2. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    You have an actuall link to that? Despite the fact that I think Tim said something about Fallout 3 beeing fun, I have my doubts that they endorsed it to such a degree. But if they ever made such comments, I am sure it would be an interesting read.

    Just for the record, many here think that Bethesda did a decent job when it came to the looks of Fallout 3, at least in most instances. The art direction was definetly Fallout-like. But as we all know, the look alone doesn't make the game.

    Bethesda rather throws mechanics out than improving them.
    Quite a shame if you ask me.
     
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  3. Greed

    Greed Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    318
    Nov 4, 2016

    Here's is the one I recall off the top of my head for Tim Cain. Its the only time I can recall him actually talking about it really.

    Beginning at 1:50
    -"I actually enjoyed playing the game, and I know some of my fans were disappointed when I said I actually enjoyed playing it"(laughs while saying it)
    -"I thought they did a good job of understanding what the universe was like, and then setting a different kind of game in it."
    -"They understood SPECIAL. I think they adapted that well to a first person style RPG, and a real time RPG"
    -"I think they did a good job understanding the lore of the game. I think they got a lot of that done well"
    His two negatives were that he didn't agree with some of the humor in the game, and he thought Beth should have used some more original factions.

    And I recall Chris talking about Fallout 3/4 in various places like
    https://core-rpg.net/articles/feature/interviews/fallout_new_vegas_interview_with_chris_avellone
    https://www.primagames.com/games/fallout-new-vegas/strategy/interview-chris-avellone-obsidian
    http://www.sugarbombed.com/forums/threads/chris-avellone-interview-part-1.21018/
    http://forums.obsidian.net/blog/1/entry-127-fallout-fan-question/

    Hes said a lot, praising Bethesda's design and world exploration, which he feels has always been a major point of Fallout. He also said several positive things about the settlement system in Fallout 4, due to how it fits with Fallout being about humanity rebuilding. And has generally praised many things in Fallout 3 from its handling of skills, the addition of the radio, and a lot of other stuff.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2016
  4. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    They barely talk about Fallout 4. Avellone doesn't even give his opinion though he's played a bit of it. None of them has really spoken of how Fallout 4 fits the theme, apart from settlement building (which theoretically I like, but doesn't practically work).
     
  5. Greed

    Greed Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    318
    Nov 4, 2016
    Like I originally said

    I heard this exact same thing in regards to Fallout 3, and yet Tim Cain, Chris Avellone, and Josh Sawyer, have given thumbs up to the game, with Tim Cain even explicitly stating that Bethesda got the lore, and setting of the game right, and did well with things like VATs and SPECIAL. And both Chris and Josh have said many positive things about Fallout 4. Including things like Chris saying the settlement thing was a great addition because of how much it fits with Fallout.

    Tim Cain hasn't ever talked about Fallout 4 to my knowledge(though he rarely talks about anything), and Josh has only said some stuff about Fallout 4 on his twitter some time back. Apparently being hyped over how Yao Guai meat or something turned him into a killing machine, or some silly thing like that. I do think he commented on Fallout 4's weapon modding system during that livestream for charity they had or something.
     
  6. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Talking about how the settlement system fits (which doesn't say if it's good or not) isn't 'many'. Also, Tim Cain is really the only one I consider 'worthy' so to speak, because he worked on the original game and hence understands it the most. He even said that Fallout New Vegas got the lore better then Fallout 3.
     
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  7. Greed

    Greed Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    318
    Nov 4, 2016
    Ahh sop its the "I am going to select who I want as a valid source because others are disagreeing with me" tactics. Cute

    Where?
     
  8. CerberusGate

    CerberusGate I should save my game in a whole new slot

    Jun 6, 2016
    Why take issue with that? It seems to me that @Dr Fallout is co-opting your strategy in handling discussions here too.
    (No offense, Dr Fallout).
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  9. Greed

    Greed Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    318
    Nov 4, 2016
    Because its disingenuous? I have accepted the words of Tim Cain, and Chris A, even when Tim Cain didn't agree on certain aspects about Fallout 3, such as Bethesda's use of factions.
     
  10. CerberusGate

    CerberusGate I should save my game in a whole new slot

    Jun 6, 2016
    Is that what you're doing? Because I'm seeing you simply reinterpreting sentences and quotes to suit your agenda...

    Plus you may be reading to deep into their praise over 3 (after all, tact and diplomatic responses are mandatory in the industry lest they not be granted work over a less tactful and non-diplomatic response).

    I do acknowledge that they would have genuine liking for aspects of 3 (and may even like 3) but that does not mean I would presume what they like based on that alone. After all, I'm not any of them.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  11. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Nah, it's the more 'original creator is original creator' tactic.
    I literally posted it.... ugh...
    http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=8416
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  12. Greed

    Greed Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    318
    Nov 4, 2016
    I read that, and where in that did he say
    As you said?

    The closest he comes to saying anything similar is.
    "If I were to compare the two games, I would say that Fallout New Vegas felt like it captured the humor and style of the Fallout universe better than Fallout 3,"
    Which says nothing about lore.The world lore isn't even used in that interview.
     
  13. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Yeah whoopsee, I made a mistake there, it wasn't lore it was style/humor.
     
  14. Prone Squanderer

    Prone Squanderer A bit of a Sillius Soddus.

    Jan 3, 2016
    As I was testing an NPC I'd made in New Vegas I noticed that NPCs also get weapon jams if their guns are in poor shape. Bethesda should have kept that.

    Also a bit of a nitpick but I dislike how your weapons just vanish in Fallout 4 when holstered. Sure they just stick to you without a holster in 3/NV but at least you can see them.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  15. Greed

    Greed Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    318
    Nov 4, 2016
    Yes, its unfortunate, and annoying, but people just had to keep asking for a Morrowind style armor system.
     
  16. Tom Bishop

    Tom Bishop It Wandered In From the Wastes

    117
    Dec 12, 2015
    What does that have to do with it?
     
  17. Greed

    Greed Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    318
    Nov 4, 2016
    Go play Morrowind, and holster your weapon. What do you see? Nothing, it's not there.

    Morrowind just pulled weapons out of thin air like Fallout 4 does. It did that because of clipping issues with weapons and armor stemming from having so many armor pieces that the devs couldn't account for all possible armor/weapon combinations to make them not clip terribly.

    They reduced the number of armor pieces in Oblivion, and Skyrim, and were able to make weapons visible since there was far less issues regarding clipping.

    Fallout 3 and New Vegas just had two armor pieces, body+helm, so there was very few clipping issues in regards in weapons. Though there were obviously still some present on some of the larger guns.

    Fallout 4 not only increased the number of armor pieces to 6, but also gave weapons tons of mods that altered the size of them, AND made power armor its own separate vehicle. This would have made the weapon/armor combination problems even worse then Morrowind, and power armor would require it's own separate holstering system and weapon placement for every weapon in the game + DLCs.
     
  18. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Carbon Dated and Proud

    Nov 26, 2007
    Unfortunately, I have one:

    Code:
    https://youtu.be/m4XVW6qcuzM?t=2m
     
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  19. whirlingdervish

    whirlingdervish Brahmin Cavalry Commander

    Jul 3, 2007
    So what we're saying is that they were too lazy to bother making decent models that don't have clipping issues with their giant stupid looking guns that appear to be designed by people who have never fired a gun or seen one before.. and that's why somehow Fallout 4 isn't worse than New Vegas which it totally is by most objective standards.

    There's nothing about having lots of types and pieces of armor that precludes not having your holstered weapon clip into things.

    They just had to do actual work (during that 7 year development cycle), and apparently that was tough and they were unwilling.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  20. Greed

    Greed Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    318
    Nov 4, 2016
    No. Laziness has nothing to do with it. Lots of games don't have holstered weapons for the same reason.
    1. No one made any arguments of one game being better
    2. If that was so, why does Fallout 4 have a better review score then NV?
    Besides the fact that not even modders who spend years making mods that try to fix clipping issues manage to fix all the clipping issues to to the inherent difficultly in fixing all clipping issues.
    You are aware that development cycles include things like time spent doing things like concept art, and that Bethesda didn't move the vast majority of their team onto working on Fallout 4 until after Skyrim's Dragonborn DLC, and patch 1.9, came out in March 2013?

    Like, they only actually spent 2.5 years actually making Fallout 4, doing things like actually modelling/texturing the game, making quests, and making things like weapons/armor. Before that they just had some guys do concept art, some basic scripting, and fundamental level engine work.