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Deleted member 93956
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I hadn't seen the first line so I thought that Ediros had found common sense for himself somewhere 
What was the Funniest Argument You've had with a Bethesda Apologist?
- Thread starter FlashBash64
- Start date
Ediros
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
Didn't miss much:I hadn't seen the first line so I thought that Ediros had found common sense for himself somewhere
https://comicbook.com/gaming/2018/1...estigates-bethesda-deceptive-trade-practices/
Told You, bugthesda sucks. Fallout is dead. I was right all along.
mithrap
Ring a ding-ding, baby
You know what ? In retrospect and in the light of Fallout 76, even that monstrosity had some rare qualities. Not redeemable ones, but still. Sometimes, it landed almost funny jokes. The different characters allowed for actual different playstyles and the environments were pretty diverse. It was sold honestly ; full price for a full game, and the trailer didn't lie about the... er, horrible content.7.Let’s be absolutely clear. Fallout 76 is a bad game. One of the worst games released to date. But saying that it’s the worst Fallout game is simply not correct.
That title will always belong to this monstrosity.
Even this horror of a game had qualities that I cannot find in Fallout 76. Except for weapon degradation, I can't find any quality that could nuance my feelings about it. It just sucks.
I never thought I'd see the day where I'd say good things about Brotherhood of steel, by retrospect. That's the state of Fallout right now.
Bethesdaretconman
First time out of the vault
"Ms. Bishop used jet before Myron invented it. Chris Avellone said in the Fallout Bible it was a mistake. Chris said years later the fallout bible is not canon. Jet is prewar."
LuciusCorneliusSulla
First time out of the vault
Ms. Bishop used jet before Myron invented it? I'm sorry but weren't they both in Fallout 2 where Myron had invented jet before the PC left Arroyo? I haven't played in a while but that sounds pretty dubious.
Chris said the FO bible is not canon because he was no longer associated with the ip. Were it still owned by black isle studios it would very likely be canon.
Who are you quoting btw?
Highplainsdrifter
First time out of the vault
The argument itself wasn't all that funny but the guys rabid defense of Bethesda was.
I don't have the specific argument because that was several Reddit accounts ago but the gist of it was this guy defending 76's only online/multiplayer no NPC game play by saying "It wont effect the main line fallout games" (Discounting the fact that we all saw this coming with Fallout 4). I responded by saying that if 76 makes them enough money they wont abandon that formula for Fallout 5. He just could not understand that point. just didn't compute for him. we went back and forth for a while before i gave up.
I don't think that my fears of 76 being a massive money maker for Bethesda can pan out anymore though, and that's for the best. This game got absolutely shit on for good reason. Full of bugs and bad server connectivity, the cheating that's sure to happen eventually and on top of that, the horrific PR of the canvas bag debacle, the MASSIVE personal identifying information leak that violated US law, the EUs GDPR and most other countries data protection laws that will undoubtedly incur some hefty fines from the EU especially and that class action lawsuit i dont think 76 will be looked at fondly over at Bethesda and Zenimax. Ironically, if they had made a MMORPG in the vein of Elder Scrolls online, it would have been a better game AND would have been closer to the original games.
Its not a good sign that 76 went down to $30 in some stores a week after launch...
I don't have the specific argument because that was several Reddit accounts ago but the gist of it was this guy defending 76's only online/multiplayer no NPC game play by saying "It wont effect the main line fallout games" (Discounting the fact that we all saw this coming with Fallout 4). I responded by saying that if 76 makes them enough money they wont abandon that formula for Fallout 5. He just could not understand that point. just didn't compute for him. we went back and forth for a while before i gave up.
I don't think that my fears of 76 being a massive money maker for Bethesda can pan out anymore though, and that's for the best. This game got absolutely shit on for good reason. Full of bugs and bad server connectivity, the cheating that's sure to happen eventually and on top of that, the horrific PR of the canvas bag debacle, the MASSIVE personal identifying information leak that violated US law, the EUs GDPR and most other countries data protection laws that will undoubtedly incur some hefty fines from the EU especially and that class action lawsuit i dont think 76 will be looked at fondly over at Bethesda and Zenimax. Ironically, if they had made a MMORPG in the vein of Elder Scrolls online, it would have been a better game AND would have been closer to the original games.
Its not a good sign that 76 went down to $30 in some stores a week after launch...
BigGuyCIA
Yer fond of me Lobster!
That hack, sycophantic fluffer on the Bethesda forums - Awesomepossum.
When he wasn't weaponizing another user's depression as a counter-argument to why Fallout 4 sucks, he was writing exhaustive, bullet-point lists on why Bethesda "RPGs" were superior.
You didn't have to mention Fallout New Vegas and he would still find a way to drag it in the mud in order to prove something. Case in point the RPG Codex review thread that is now dust. It mentioned FNV maybe twice, indirectly, and he dedicated almost 3 pages to talking about how shit FNV was while not addressing the core points against Fallout 4.
He felt factions in FNV were bad because the disguise system didn't have smart conditionals for when you put on a Legion outfit in front of an NCR trooper (they'd immediately shoot you). He praised Fallout 4's factions even though you couldn't kill Maxson (or any other faction leader) from stealth without the whole faction telepathically knowing it was you.
He was just as quick to ignore the FO bible as a legitimate source of information, as he was to use it as proof for one of his unlettered diatribes.
In a thread about sex, gambling and other vices (and lack thereof) in Fallout 4, he immediately used Magnolia as proof of there being prostitution. Even though it was a one-night stand by way of flirting with Robert Altman's, voice actor for scale, digital wife. He dismissed gambling because it didn't fit the "theme" of the game. As if gambling is something exclusive to Las Vegas, and that people looking to survive and make caps are going to respect pre-war gambling boundaries and laws. An entire fucking faction is based on the Mafia, notorious for gambling dens and drug dealing, and the reason to not include gambling is because it's not thematic. There's even an arena in the game and it's still not thematic.
He was the culmination of an untreated abscess that just kept growing with garbage and nonsense. If you gave him an enema you could bury him in a matchbox. Truly, the only person I can reliably say I hate.
When he wasn't weaponizing another user's depression as a counter-argument to why Fallout 4 sucks, he was writing exhaustive, bullet-point lists on why Bethesda "RPGs" were superior.
You didn't have to mention Fallout New Vegas and he would still find a way to drag it in the mud in order to prove something. Case in point the RPG Codex review thread that is now dust. It mentioned FNV maybe twice, indirectly, and he dedicated almost 3 pages to talking about how shit FNV was while not addressing the core points against Fallout 4.
He felt factions in FNV were bad because the disguise system didn't have smart conditionals for when you put on a Legion outfit in front of an NCR trooper (they'd immediately shoot you). He praised Fallout 4's factions even though you couldn't kill Maxson (or any other faction leader) from stealth without the whole faction telepathically knowing it was you.
He was just as quick to ignore the FO bible as a legitimate source of information, as he was to use it as proof for one of his unlettered diatribes.
In a thread about sex, gambling and other vices (and lack thereof) in Fallout 4, he immediately used Magnolia as proof of there being prostitution. Even though it was a one-night stand by way of flirting with Robert Altman's, voice actor for scale, digital wife. He dismissed gambling because it didn't fit the "theme" of the game. As if gambling is something exclusive to Las Vegas, and that people looking to survive and make caps are going to respect pre-war gambling boundaries and laws. An entire fucking faction is based on the Mafia, notorious for gambling dens and drug dealing, and the reason to not include gambling is because it's not thematic. There's even an arena in the game and it's still not thematic.
He was the culmination of an untreated abscess that just kept growing with garbage and nonsense. If you gave him an enema you could bury him in a matchbox. Truly, the only person I can reliably say I hate.
Cobra Commander
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
heeh. This guy still exist? 
I remember once someone told him that argument that Fallout 3 has no farms and livestock and such.
and he replied that the Geck of Fallout 3 indicates that there are more brahmins there than in NV, so this argument should be applied to NV.
Then I said: "what about the bighorners?"
He replied that that was not what they were talking about, so it did not matter.
I wonder what he thinks about Fallout 76
I remember once someone told him that argument that Fallout 3 has no farms and livestock and such.
and he replied that the Geck of Fallout 3 indicates that there are more brahmins there than in NV, so this argument should be applied to NV.
Then I said: "what about the bighorners?"
He replied that that was not what they were talking about, so it did not matter.
I wonder what he thinks about Fallout 76
Norzan
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
What the fuck did that person expect? Two factions at war with each other, killing each other on sight. Of course you are gonna get shot on sight if you wear a Legion outfit near NCR people.
It seems one of those people that have been appearing lately. The ones that find things to criticize New Vegas while elevating Fallout 3 and 4 in the process, because New Vegas is much more praised than those two by a large amount of people in the community. It's the "backlash to the backlash" approach.
BigGuyCIA
Yer fond of me Lobster!
Norzan
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Oh lord, it's the highest level of shilling. That guy is a lost cause.
The one about the game going on sale so soon after release is the most hilarious. Battlefield V went on sale because it's actually failing as hard as Fallout 76. The game actually has less people playing than the game that came before and it was like this one week after release.
The one about the game going on sale so soon after release is the most hilarious. Battlefield V went on sale because it's actually failing as hard as Fallout 76. The game actually has less people playing than the game that came before and it was like this one week after release.
Cobra Commander
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
BigGuyCIA
Yer fond of me Lobster!
I think only gizmo still has the patience to put up with this guy
Gizmo had a very eloquent response to possum on the, now dead, BethSoft forums and I'll never forget it. Paraphrasing:
Circa 2011.
Norzan
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
There's an user in the Grim Dawn forum that has a name very similar to that guy. Don't know if they are the same person, but it would be kind of funny if he was.
But seriously, that man has been shilling for Bethesda for at least 7 years based on the year of that quote from Gizmo. At this point it must be really fucking sad to spend this much time being a zealot. Like, what does this guy want? A medal from Bethesda?
Haven't met a zealot that has defended a company for this long, all the others i have met eventually notice how shit the company is or just move on to another company.
But seriously, that man has been shilling for Bethesda for at least 7 years based on the year of that quote from Gizmo. At this point it must be really fucking sad to spend this much time being a zealot. Like, what does this guy want? A medal from Bethesda?
Haven't met a zealot that has defended a company for this long, all the others i have met eventually notice how shit the company is or just move on to another company.
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Highplainsdrifter
First time out of the vault
Some people can never be saved.
Jogre
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
I know this thread has been inactive for a couple years, but hell, need somewhere to post this:
I've noticed a lot of Fallout 3 apologists will shit out the words "Show not tell", and MATN seems to do this constantly "Fallout New Vegas ending bad because show not tell, Fallout New Vegas intro explaining factions bad because show not tell"
I just wanted somewhere to rant about how greatly this annoys me. It's like, literally a primary school level understanding of media analysis. It reminds me of when people will spunk themselves about how Star Wars "Is the perfect encapsulation of the Heroes' Journey." or whatever(Not to shit on Star Wars, just people who think they're smart for applying basic media concepts)
Guess what: stories aren't like repairing a clock. There aren't a specific series of parts you need to slot in to place in order for them to be good. "Show not tell" is generally thrown around like general standards, like Chekov's Gun. The reason these exist are to A. set up general advice for writing a storyline and B. To create a general theory to why media is bad (Not one that exists in any context regardless of whether it makes sense for the narrative)
Guess what, Aesthetic Standards aren't Ironclad Laws of the Universe. You can't use one specific concept, say New Vegas fails to live up to it, and therefore shut off your brain from critical discussion because you found it violates the law or whatever.
"Don't tell me about senatorial elections, farming, supply lines, and Caesar's interpretation of history and Hegelian Dialectics. Show them to me through subtle clues" is some of the biggest fucking bullshit that you can throw at a game.
The "Show not tell" arguement is so popular for Media Criticism in the same way that "Any Housewife knows that her purse has limited amounts of money" is, at least over here post-Thatcherism, a popular arguement for economics. It takes complex topics and reduces them down to simple slogans or understandable ideas, that reduce the core complexities of things like Media or Economics to ideas so simple, that they are basically worthless at having any explanatory power whatsoever.
Aesthetic standards exist within context. There are no ironclad laws of storytelling that can't be intentionally broken: For an example Pulp Fiction utilises non-linear storytelling, breaking standard conventions by introducing you to concepts you won't understand because the earlier point in the narrative comes later.
Bethesda fans use "Show Not Tell" because it's an easy arguement that means that they don't have to actually understand what they're talking about, they can use a general rule made about Media, apply it with no extra context(Like how important explaining the mechanics of the world IS to Fallout New Vegas's entire strengths), and then walk away like they've won, because they've applied this Kantian axiom that's supposed to exist and be unbreakable in any circumstance.
Critical analysis of themes?, Analysing Ideology?, Figuring out personal meaning within a narrative? Analysing the narrative through a wider societal context and social ideas relevant in our world and how they play in to the game? Fuck all that.
If I can use a basic rule of Media, and apply it Haphazardly, I can basically dismiss any critical analysis of Fallout New Vegas, and triumphantly declare that Fallout 3 is, in fact, way better, without ever explaining the relevance of any of my points.
Pisses me off so fucking much.
I've noticed a lot of Fallout 3 apologists will shit out the words "Show not tell", and MATN seems to do this constantly "Fallout New Vegas ending bad because show not tell, Fallout New Vegas intro explaining factions bad because show not tell"
I just wanted somewhere to rant about how greatly this annoys me. It's like, literally a primary school level understanding of media analysis. It reminds me of when people will spunk themselves about how Star Wars "Is the perfect encapsulation of the Heroes' Journey." or whatever(Not to shit on Star Wars, just people who think they're smart for applying basic media concepts)
Guess what: stories aren't like repairing a clock. There aren't a specific series of parts you need to slot in to place in order for them to be good. "Show not tell" is generally thrown around like general standards, like Chekov's Gun. The reason these exist are to A. set up general advice for writing a storyline and B. To create a general theory to why media is bad (Not one that exists in any context regardless of whether it makes sense for the narrative)
Guess what, Aesthetic Standards aren't Ironclad Laws of the Universe. You can't use one specific concept, say New Vegas fails to live up to it, and therefore shut off your brain from critical discussion because you found it violates the law or whatever.
"Don't tell me about senatorial elections, farming, supply lines, and Caesar's interpretation of history and Hegelian Dialectics. Show them to me through subtle clues" is some of the biggest fucking bullshit that you can throw at a game.
The "Show not tell" arguement is so popular for Media Criticism in the same way that "Any Housewife knows that her purse has limited amounts of money" is, at least over here post-Thatcherism, a popular arguement for economics. It takes complex topics and reduces them down to simple slogans or understandable ideas, that reduce the core complexities of things like Media or Economics to ideas so simple, that they are basically worthless at having any explanatory power whatsoever.
Aesthetic standards exist within context. There are no ironclad laws of storytelling that can't be intentionally broken: For an example Pulp Fiction utilises non-linear storytelling, breaking standard conventions by introducing you to concepts you won't understand because the earlier point in the narrative comes later.
Bethesda fans use "Show Not Tell" because it's an easy arguement that means that they don't have to actually understand what they're talking about, they can use a general rule made about Media, apply it with no extra context(Like how important explaining the mechanics of the world IS to Fallout New Vegas's entire strengths), and then walk away like they've won, because they've applied this Kantian axiom that's supposed to exist and be unbreakable in any circumstance.
Critical analysis of themes?, Analysing Ideology?, Figuring out personal meaning within a narrative? Analysing the narrative through a wider societal context and social ideas relevant in our world and how they play in to the game? Fuck all that.
If I can use a basic rule of Media, and apply it Haphazardly, I can basically dismiss any critical analysis of Fallout New Vegas, and triumphantly declare that Fallout 3 is, in fact, way better, without ever explaining the relevance of any of my points.
Pisses me off so fucking much.
Norzan
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
There's a place for a "show not tell" and for "tell not show". Thinking the former is better than the latter by default is retarded.
RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
MATN and his fans are a perfect example on why not everyone should have a YouTube channel especially when you have no understanding of storytelling, game design or RPG elements. There is a reason why the Codex view MATN as a massive faggot.
Sicknessoverload
Still Mildly Glowing
I'll still say my case of why I think Fallout 3 is better, even though I'm grossly outnumbered.
RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
That is fine but my only warning to you is to not go on to the Codex. They have a reputation as being, uh, less then civil then NMA when it comes to Beth fans or fans of Fallout 3 and 4. Just trust me dude.