LuciusCorneliusSulla
First time out of the vault
I believe he meant as in exploration. Literally how many paths you can take from the start (the start being after the prologue i.e. after doc mitchell or after escaping the vault).
What was the Funniest Argument You've had with a Bethesda Apologist?
- Thread starter FlashBash64
- Start date
First time out of the vault
I believe he meant as in exploration. Literally how many paths you can take from the start (the start being after the prologue i.e. after doc mitchell or after escaping the vault).
D
Deleted member 93956
Guest
Well, neither can you say it's fully intentional. That's why I'm not claiming it is. Also, a single extra option hardly turns something into the whole opposite.
You guys are mixing up the intro with the whole openness of the early game.
LuciusCorneliusSulla
First time out of the vault
Except a linear path implies there is only one way to go from point A to point B. The open is nonlinear with the black mountain path as it now has two ways to get to B. There are two other ways (through deathclaws or cazadores) that I'm excluding due to the sheer difficulty of passing them.
A Mario level is linear. You move right to finish the level or left to back track. As the level is linear you can only go two directions. In New Vegas upon reaching the highway you can go right through primm to get to Novac and then Vegas or left through the Black Moutain Path to get to Vegas. Had the path not existed, Vegas' open would resemble Mario.
Edit: forgot to finish the analogy. New Vegas' opening has 4 directions you can go with the black moutain path. Without it there are two directions. Forward and back for each.
You guys might be using a looser definition of linear. In comparison to fo3 maybe it seems linear but the reality is it is not.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
Doesn't FO3 have literal physical walls railroading you into the metro tunnels? I mean, at least New Vegtas let's you comeback higher leveled and better equipped and take out the critters, and it offers more experienced sneak oriented players the Great Khans route. In FO3 even a Power Armor wearing, Gauss Rifle using, Almost Perfect perk picking, level 30 player is still gonna get blocked by those walls, and on pointless to explore, that is basically FO3 in an nutshell too.
LuciusCorneliusSulla
First time out of the vault
His arguments were mainly:
A) Fo3 is much larger than Vegas
B) Fo3 has more content than Vegas
C) Vegas had a linear start
I don't know about the actual map size but I'm sure Vegas beats 3 in content and the start thing is objectively false.
naossano
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Which is a number above one, more that the other games combined, bar Fo1.
Norzan
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Yeah, saying New Vegas has a linear start is just objectively wrong. I have done playthroughs for basically every direction and didn't had much issue doing them.
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That is true. I guess the only way I can say FNV is better is because there are many factions that play a role rather than the handful of ones from Fallout 3 and 4. But one can also consider that as filler, hmm.
BTW now that I think about it, Obsidian really should have included the Super Mutants. The player either convincing Marcus or Tabatha to send a couple to Hoover Dam to assist whatever side the player is joining.
I know it would have been a bit of a stretch but if the Khans had made it into the end game the Super Mutants could have as well and it would have helped integrate them better into the campaign.
Okay they are not linear but what this guy was also saying was that a lot of locations in FNV are unnecessary to visit (unless you want to see everything, something that also goes up for Fallout 3 and 4)
FNV does have a more set path of locations to follow unless the player really wants to make it past the Deathclaws and Cazadores and hoof it directly for New Vegas.
FO3 is more non linear in how to go to Washington, there not being any barriers or obstacles of any type, allowing a player to explore the place immediately. I can't argue why FNV's approach is better but I guess all three cities (Washington, Las Vegas, Boston) are rather disappointing outside the locations within you really have to visit.
For me the road to Las Vegas was pretty rewarding on its own as I really liked exploring places like the rocket factory, Helios One. Passing all of that and you loose quite a lot of opening content.
Making Harold mandatory? No but I do think his appearance is rather wasted in any case.
He is mostly there because he appeared in Fallout 1 and 2.
D
Deleted member 93956
Guest
And that’s what i’m saying, per se they are the exact same, because the technicals are identical, but content is spread differently. In NV, if you stick to the roads you’ll miss perhaps 1% of the game’s content. It just doesn’t do “you can go there, if you can see it” (obviously within reason and suspense of disbelief), and added to some other details, it’s really just not all that successful when it comes to the open world portion of itself.
Of course, people considering it highly don’t do so unfounded. It is way better than average when it comes to making it a believable setting (see above parenthesis), weaving its narrative and plot to the game world and player agency. And obviously, most everything else more detached from it’s open world setting.
I wish I could say in what way FNV does open worlds better than Fallout 3 and 4 but when it comes to it I really can't other than that I find a lot of the optional locations Fallout 3 and 4 a waste of something that could have been used so much better than just be another dungeon.
That is probably why I also argued in the past for a smaller but more cohesive designed world.
When there is this much space it needs to be filled up, but the content does not mean much when it is concept wise the same.
That is probably why I also argued in the past for a smaller but more cohesive designed world.
When there is this much space it needs to be filled up, but the content does not mean much when it is concept wise the same.
Big No
Watch as I open and close this door
I think the invisible walls are located at the map boundary and atop large amounts of rubble within the city. Though I assume the metro's are just there because if the entire city was open with no rubble the game might slow to a crawl loading everything. Freeside and New Vegas did something similar by adding "checkpoints" so it didn't need to load everything, which I must say, I would've preferred in F3 as opposed to using the metros. Or you know, have both because it'd give the player more places to explore while making it easy to get around.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
Difference is in New Vegas the gates where smpel checkpoints that you just went through by pressing the action button, in FO3 they were there to railroad you into same looking labyrinths to get anywhere plot relevant.
Big No
Watch as I open and close this door
Well, yeah. I did say I would've preferred it if F3 did the whole "checkpoint" thing rather than just metros or even have both checkpoints and leave the metro's for exploration purposes.
Cobra Commander
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
Reach vegas at level 1:
Goodsprings -> jean sky diving -> bos bunkers (forget the name). There you pass a hole in a fence and RUN LIKE CRAZY from the scorpions in the scoprion gulch (it's actually really easy, just use a light armor or no armor) and you will find yourself in helios one. From there, follow the roads (near a gas station close to helios one there always a raider ambush, guys with grenade launchers, just be careful and stick to the ants in the open area, they are more easy to avoid)
Can be done in.......20 minutes more or less.
Goodsprings -> jean sky diving -> bos bunkers (forget the name). There you pass a hole in a fence and RUN LIKE CRAZY from the scorpions in the scoprion gulch (it's actually really easy, just use a light armor or no armor) and you will find yourself in helios one. From there, follow the roads (near a gas station close to helios one there always a raider ambush, guys with grenade launchers, just be careful and stick to the ants in the open area, they are more easy to avoid)
Can be done in.......20 minutes more or less.
LuciusCorneliusSulla
First time out of the vault
Or you can walk up the black mountain path until you see a patrol going up a dirt road. It's trapped with a boulder and bear traps. Trigger those and sneak up the path. Then just hop down the cliff face. You should be close to the NCR ranger stache. From there just walk to new vegas.
You can also swipe Doc Mitchell's stimpacks and antivenom from a shelf. Climb the mountains to the northeast, reach the cazadores, climb down the mountain when the cazadores are the farthest away possible, run like crazy through the mountain path. Usually a cazador will be able to hit you, but using the stimpaks and later (once the cazador decided to give up chasing you), use the antivenom. You are now free to reach Vegas.
This is even easier if you have the pre-order packs/Courier's Stash that give you free stimpaks and/or super stimpaks.
This is even easier if you have the pre-order packs/Courier's Stash that give you free stimpaks and/or super stimpaks.
Cobra Commander
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
This is actually the route that I take it. I did not mention because I blow up the cazadores from above with the mercenary pack grenade launcher, and I do not think the dlcs should be taken into account. But as you said you can run from them, then it's a valid path.
Ok, so I start NV right now determined to find another way. And I did.
Goodsprings -> Primm. There you can pass without enter the city. Now instead of follow the road, go to your left, straigh to Nipton. It can be done without combat since you dont need to enter in the desert area with all that ants.
Then you will reach this spot.
If you go into that path, you avoid some bark scorpions and soon you are in Ullyses' bighorn ranch. From there, Novac (again, without enter in a combat if you know your ways). Novac to Vegas we all know what to do.
So, there are already many ways to get to Vegas at level 1? 4? So it's a fallacy from the Bethesdrones to say it can not be done.
EDIT: Oh yeah, forgot to say. Of course, getting into Vegas via Freeside is not a good idea. You want to go in high style using the monorail.
If you, like me, find it stupid to running into the door that leads to the monorail like a madman, trying not get shot by the soldiers, go to Contreras and buy an NCR uniform. Now you can pass quietly.
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Cobra Commander
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
Oh my, find another one.
Goodsprings - > NCRCF -> Emergency Service Ralyard - > Primm Pass* - > Novac.
* There´s a blind deathclaw there. Just use a stealthboy (there´s one in Goodsprings school) and you good to go. That's if he's there. It was not there now when I walked that path.
edit: no, you can´t sneak. I reload a save and he was there. I could not pass even with the stealthboy. 2 turbos do the job, but I do not know if you can find two copies of this item at the beginning of the game. I'll check the GECK later.
Goodsprings - > NCRCF -> Emergency Service Ralyard - > Primm Pass* - > Novac.
* There´s a blind deathclaw there. Just use a stealthboy (there´s one in Goodsprings school) and you good to go. That's if he's there. It was not there now when I walked that path.
edit: no, you can´t sneak. I reload a save and he was there. I could not pass even with the stealthboy. 2 turbos do the job, but I do not know if you can find two copies of this item at the beginning of the game. I'll check the GECK later.
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Ediros
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
Brand New Stuff. Posted a thread about Failout 76, guess what happened?
ME:
https://comicbook.com/gaming/2018/1...estigates-bethesda-deceptive-trade-practices/
Told You, bugthesda sucks. Fallout is dead. I was right all along.
1. Congratulations on being a pessimistic, fatalistic asshole?
2.Fallout 76 is a enjoyable game, i fail to see why every asshole on the internet thinks they need to be so flipping negative about it.
3.
I’d like to say a few things...
Fallout 76 is overpriced in the current state of the game, it’s buggy and to a lot of people not very enjoyable.
Fallout 76 isn’t a good fallout game, but it’s an alright MMO, it’s fun with friends and that’s what it’s good at, but solo-players aren’t having fun and don’t have a lot of replay ability.
Fallout 76 has bugs, Bethesda is probably gonna fix that like with their other games, but as it stands some people don’t agree that it’s finished enough for release.
Fallout 76 has microtransactions, a lot of people don’t like how it’s implemented, others might like how Bethesda did it.
All in all I don’t like the game, but some do, I’m not saying the Fallout franchise is dead or Bethesda sucks, I just feel like my trust has been betrayed, with how they gave us information at interviews and such, they made it seem like everyone could enjoy the game equally, to me it doesn’t seem so.
But the game is getting way more hate than it should, it’s not the worst game ever, it’s not the best either, it’s want you want to get out of it that matters, it’s an alright MMO in a universe many have enjoyed before.
4.
Fallout 76 is bad but doesn't kill the Fallout series.
One, its bad because (for me) the MMO aspect ruins the solo atmosphere.
Two, the amount of bugs and weird gameplay mechanics that were presented in the game.
5.
I still think Oxhorn put it best.
"This is not Fallout 5."
It's different, it's buggy, and it needs fixing, but I still incredibly enjoy this game.
6.
People like to ignore that this is not only a side project, but for the most part this game was made by BGS Austin, not BGS proper, who are currently neck deep in Starfield.
7.Let’s be absolutely clear. Fallout 76 is a bad game. One of the worst games released to date. But saying that it’s the worst Fallout game is simply not correct.
That title will always belong to this monstrosity.
8.
That too. I'm not gonna yell at anyone who doesn't like the game, cause no one's wrong in disliking it. It's very different than any fallout before it, but I will say it's wrong to say bethesda sucks and fallout is dead because they made a different game.
9.Hope for the best expect the worst, my friend, I think you got it backward.
10.
not sure if i get the game with the nuking the other idiot house feature and with all those bug there at every bethesda launch i feel it going to turn into a griefer wet dream with game exploit and all
i hope it dont turn like gta online
11.
I'm not saying that it's a good game, but even Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel beats Fallout 76 in several ways. While the game's content wasn't very Fallout-like, at least it had content. At least it wasn't a buggy mess. At least you didn't need to have an internet connection in order to play it. At least it didn't have microtransactions. At least it didn't have freakishly large patches you needed to download. At least it had a purpose; It had actual characters, a story, and a set goal to work towards. And it had the late, great Tony Jay among its cast. That alone makes it worth at least one playthrough.
But of course, it still doesn't forgive all its faults and foibles. It's still a watered-down clone of Baldur's Gate: Dark Allliance, its dialogue and music are every hormone-addled teenage edgelord's wet dream, it led to Interplay going bankrupt and being forced to sell the rights, etc.
If there's one thing Fallout 76 has that stops it from being a complete franchise-killing shitshow like BoS, it's that, as Livingdeath pointed out, it was clearly just a side project to hold people over while Bethesda worked on Starfield and The Elder Scrolls VI, and it's definitely not the direction the company actually wants to take with the franchise. Unlike Brotherhood of Steel, which Interplay was so completely in love with that they delayed and then eventually cancelled Van Buren to work on it and its sequel (which also got cancelled).
ME:
https://comicbook.com/gaming/2018/1...estigates-bethesda-deceptive-trade-practices/
Told You, bugthesda sucks. Fallout is dead. I was right all along.
1. Congratulations on being a pessimistic, fatalistic asshole?
2.Fallout 76 is a enjoyable game, i fail to see why every asshole on the internet thinks they need to be so flipping negative about it.
3.
I’d like to say a few things...
Fallout 76 is overpriced in the current state of the game, it’s buggy and to a lot of people not very enjoyable.
Fallout 76 isn’t a good fallout game, but it’s an alright MMO, it’s fun with friends and that’s what it’s good at, but solo-players aren’t having fun and don’t have a lot of replay ability.
Fallout 76 has bugs, Bethesda is probably gonna fix that like with their other games, but as it stands some people don’t agree that it’s finished enough for release.
Fallout 76 has microtransactions, a lot of people don’t like how it’s implemented, others might like how Bethesda did it.
All in all I don’t like the game, but some do, I’m not saying the Fallout franchise is dead or Bethesda sucks, I just feel like my trust has been betrayed, with how they gave us information at interviews and such, they made it seem like everyone could enjoy the game equally, to me it doesn’t seem so.
But the game is getting way more hate than it should, it’s not the worst game ever, it’s not the best either, it’s want you want to get out of it that matters, it’s an alright MMO in a universe many have enjoyed before.
4.
Fallout 76 is bad but doesn't kill the Fallout series.
One, its bad because (for me) the MMO aspect ruins the solo atmosphere.
Two, the amount of bugs and weird gameplay mechanics that were presented in the game.
5.
I still think Oxhorn put it best.
"This is not Fallout 5."
It's different, it's buggy, and it needs fixing, but I still incredibly enjoy this game.
6.
People like to ignore that this is not only a side project, but for the most part this game was made by BGS Austin, not BGS proper, who are currently neck deep in Starfield.
7.Let’s be absolutely clear. Fallout 76 is a bad game. One of the worst games released to date. But saying that it’s the worst Fallout game is simply not correct.
That title will always belong to this monstrosity.
8.
That too. I'm not gonna yell at anyone who doesn't like the game, cause no one's wrong in disliking it. It's very different than any fallout before it, but I will say it's wrong to say bethesda sucks and fallout is dead because they made a different game.
9.Hope for the best expect the worst, my friend, I think you got it backward.
10.
not sure if i get the game with the nuking the other idiot house feature and with all those bug there at every bethesda launch i feel it going to turn into a griefer wet dream with game exploit and all
i hope it dont turn like gta online
11.
I'm not saying that it's a good game, but even Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel beats Fallout 76 in several ways. While the game's content wasn't very Fallout-like, at least it had content. At least it wasn't a buggy mess. At least you didn't need to have an internet connection in order to play it. At least it didn't have microtransactions. At least it didn't have freakishly large patches you needed to download. At least it had a purpose; It had actual characters, a story, and a set goal to work towards. And it had the late, great Tony Jay among its cast. That alone makes it worth at least one playthrough.
But of course, it still doesn't forgive all its faults and foibles. It's still a watered-down clone of Baldur's Gate: Dark Allliance, its dialogue and music are every hormone-addled teenage edgelord's wet dream, it led to Interplay going bankrupt and being forced to sell the rights, etc.
If there's one thing Fallout 76 has that stops it from being a complete franchise-killing shitshow like BoS, it's that, as Livingdeath pointed out, it was clearly just a side project to hold people over while Bethesda worked on Starfield and The Elder Scrolls VI, and it's definitely not the direction the company actually wants to take with the franchise. Unlike Brotherhood of Steel, which Interplay was so completely in love with that they delayed and then eventually cancelled Van Buren to work on it and its sequel (which also got cancelled).
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Cobra Commander
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
There some things; beside war; that never changes.