Why do people think New Vegas was actually good?

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by chunglord420, Apr 2, 2020.

  1. chunglord420

    chunglord420 First time out of the vault

    15
    Apr 2, 2020
    Title says it all.
    Just finished playing New Vegas up to OWB. Have finished the game without any DLC before this though.
    New Vegas is really bad. There's no point in siding with Yes Man or House or the Legion. Yes Man is just a fallback if you were a smooth-brain and failed every other faction's quests. House is almost exactly the same as Yes Man. The Legion would be worth it if it wasn't so lacking in quests and companions. Almost every single companion will despise you unless you choose NCR. Not to mention there's more NCR content than any other faction.
    Besides that, the world is very boring. Despite having a more locations than Fallout 3, New Vegas feels a LOT more empty.
    And, unlike in 3, if you kill someone who has a lead on Benny, there's always a fallback. No consequence for killing Manny Vargas or Beagle. In 3, if you nuked Megaton, you would fail the main quest and get a new one without any quest markers. Why doesn't that happen in New Vegas?
    And why are the Enclave and BoS in this game? They almost never play a significant role in the story. They feel like they were shoehorned in there.
    The only part I *really* enjoyed from New Vegas was Dead Money. It was really well done. Probably because less people made the story. Too many cooks in the kitchen and all that.
    Honest Hearts was just OK. Though there was not a lot of choice and a lot of scripted events.
    Old World Blues was the stinkiest shit I've ever sniffed though. I've seen a lot of complaints about Bethesda's Fallout being "le wacky 60s themed nuke game", but OWB fits that bill exactly. It feels like an episode of Rick and Morty. It's just too wacky to be in Fallout.
    Some people say that all of New Vegas's faults is because of it's 18 month development cycle but I don't really think that's much of a problem.
    The real problem is Obsidian's AWFUL time management. IIRC, Chris Avellone wrote millions of lines of dialogue for Ulysses but he never made it into the base game. Why focus on writing this character when you could write some good Pro-Legion quests to make them actually worthwhile? Why? You could be focusing on much more crucial things than Mr. Bull and Bear dude.
    In my honest opinion, this game is complete and utter garbage.
     
  2. TheOtherManInTheRoom

    TheOtherManInTheRoom Watchman

    143
    Mar 28, 2018
    Is this supposed to be a late April fool? Would make a long reply, just don't want to get egg on my face.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 4
  3. chunglord420

    chunglord420 First time out of the vault

    15
    Apr 2, 2020
    What a very well-constructed argument. I keep posting about this on /vg/ but everybody replies with "that's bait"
    I'm starting to believe everyone who likes this game is a lobotomite.
     
  4. TheOtherManInTheRoom

    TheOtherManInTheRoom Watchman

    143
    Mar 28, 2018
    Okay, well here goes, you stuck around more than one day so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I'll ignore the slightly personal jabs.

    Yes there is, depending on what your character deems best for the mojave. Legion (to put it simply) is the pure justice where the harshness of the world is reflected in the harshness of the society that governs. Characters in the world also talk about potential benefits that the Legion has, such as greater security for caravans and less harassment of homes and businesses by raiders.

    House is perhaps the most intelligent of all of the characters and given his track record in saving and Vegas, amassing the securitrons and negotiating with the casino tribes and NCR, you can make a convincing case that being loyal to him will bring you the most rewards.

    But why be second in command when you can be at the very top? Disagree with all the rest of the faction's intentions? Then go with Yes Man, which has rather more customisation to tailor your relationships with major and minor factions as you please.

    So, as demonstrated, no. House is different to Yes Man by what you make of him. One easy way- House demands the BOS be exterminated. If you don't want that to happen, then you go Yes Man, remove House and boom, you can still have BOS.

    If the value of the factions was in quests and companions then fine. If the value is actually in ideology and roleplaying, like it perhaps should be, then this is not a problem. Yes, every NV fan wanted the cut content to be in the game, and bemoaned the lack of development time, but there is enough in the game to make that faction enjoyable if playing with a character that way inclined.

    Yep, I can agree with that, though I don't see why that's a problem. I would be more unhappy if most companions did not mind me aligning with seemingly genocidal fascists.... Its good that the companions don't just follow me whatever I do. And yes there is more NCR content though most of the NCR content is relatively easy to do even when doing a House or Yes Man run.

    New Vegas was not really designed for exploration. Neither, funnily enough, are Fallout 1 and 2. In those games its just an overworld map with cities that unless you have pre-ordained knowledge of (i.e repeat playthroughs) you have a hard trouble finding. If that does not satisfy you, see the development time, and the fact that Obsidian evidently felt more time was worth spending on the writing and storytelling than whether everywhere had audiologs which people felt like they had to record just as they died.

    This would not be a problem given that if people played the game properly, nobody would nuke Megaton unless they were roleplaying an edgelord or a psycho. (before you perhaps reply about legionaries, there are plenty of people who like the legion and plenty of characters who could reasonably join it)

    Also. the opening NV main quest can be circumvented with relative ease on repeat throughways, by just going north instead of to Primm, if you know what you are doing. Also, aside from that bit for the main quest in fallout 3, nuking megaton has no other consequences, or so minor as to not be noticed.

    They are consequences of their fates in Fallout 2. Yes fine they are kinda there cause they gotta be there, but are written well and with morally grey characters. Quite unlike the hideous BOS in Fallout 3 which is all about doing the RIGHT THING (very unlike the BOS at all) Ditto with the Enclave, but of course in F3 they are just bad. NV actually has the most sympathetic depiction of the men and women who were a part of it.

    Excellent. Dead Money is fantastic.

    Honest hearts is my favourite but that's just me. Mainly cause Sawyer decided to write characters who took religion at least a little seriously, instead of like a 12 year old discovering atheism for the first time.

    I am not the hugest fan of OWB either, but can appreciate the humour as a one-off. The actual weakness, somewhat ironically is the amount of walking around exploring to do, in the garbage engine and shooting mechanics that Bethesda gifted Obsidian with.

    I mean, 18 months seems really too short to make a game that size, however you really slice it. All games have discarded ideas that never made it. And yes, I am that big a fan of Ulysses either, given he is basically Mebbeth/Kreia mk3. and the idea has gotten a tiny bit stale now.

    Do please tell us a good Fallout game here. Given your only reference point was Fallout 3.... I am not hopeful.

    There we go. Long reply, but you did ask.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 12
  5. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    @TheOtherManInTheRoom no need to get caught in his pace. I'm not one to immediately accuse someone of trolling, but this guy came knocking at our door screaming like he owns the house and that we're trashing the place.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 3
  6. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Fossil

    Mar 16, 2013
    Did you mean /v/? /fog/ tends to have lots of fine gentlemen with opinions such as yourself. From what I recall of the waifuposting, anyway.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  7. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    Wait, are you saying the guy with a profile pic such as this

    Is actually a fucking weeb?
    :lol:
     
  8. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Fossil

    Mar 16, 2013
    Nah I'm not accusing him of being a waifu, uh, dude but just saying that /fog/ generally has the same strand of opinions, though they're more transparent about why they like BethFallout being due to tits.
     
  9. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    Oh right, yeah I can see coomers playing Fallout 4 for the Loverslab mods.

    Yuck.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  10. SquidVan

    SquidVan Literal Vampire Potbelly Goblin

    Jun 1, 2018
    That wasn't an argument, he asked you a question. Jesus who is the lobotomite here? Glad he clapped back at you with a detailed response.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 9
  11. chunglord420

    chunglord420 First time out of the vault

    15
    Apr 2, 2020
    As much as the characters say "muh safe roads", it hardly outweighs how everyone calls them faggy misogynistic fascist slavers.

    But it's really hard to roleplay when the game doesn't enable your decisions. You can't easily feel like a Legion soldier when you hardly ever get missions, like a soldier would. It's easier to be immersed in being an NCR soldier because you can do missions for them.

    Well it doesn't really make since. I had to explore the map while playing Fallout 1 to find any of the fucking settlements. The difference is that in Fallout 1 and 2 you "fast traveled" across the map most of the time. You're only stopped when there's a random encounter. You have to walk across a boring ass desert in New Vegas. In fact, I'm pretty sure they scaled down New Vegas to combat the inane walking.

    That's awfully dumb to say. A good roleplaying game does not have a "proper" way to be played.

    But you get a lot of caps, Chinese assault rifle and a nice suite in Tenpenny Towers. But what's wrong with enabling people to roleplay? Isn't that what RPGs are supposed to do?

    I know almost every route in New Vegas. I have more hours in FNV than any other Fallout game. You can go north of Goodsprings, get your cheeks clapped by Cazadors. Or you can head north of Jean Skydiving to Sloan and get your butthole touched by Deathclaws. There's also heading through Scorpion Gulch from Hidden Valley into Helios One. But you'll probably get assraped by Giant Radscorpions. I can usually get pass them but that's only because of the Courier's stash. The way the world is designed almost forces you through Primm to Nipton.

    Idk about that, Chief. The Enclave are locked behind a companion quest and not everyone will even finish their quests in their first couple of playthroughs.

    Where does this come from? I think fighting the Enclave would be aligned with the BoS's goals. Especially when they have a ton of Pre-War tech and are occupying a crucial resource. They also do it reluctantly, I might add.

    Well, BoS is pretty good :^)
    Just kidding. I would rank the games like this

    1 > 3 > NV > 2 > Tactics > 4 > BoS > 76

    Seriously through, 2 fucking sucks dude. It made me want to kill myself. Who though Monty Python references every 5 seconds was a good idea?
     
  12. chunglord420

    chunglord420 First time out of the vault

    15
    Apr 2, 2020
    Nah, /vg/ loves FO4 and 76. I see people defending it 24/7. There's always a Bethesda hate thread on /v/
     
  13. Alphons

    Alphons National Beholder

    767
    Aug 9, 2017
    3 words: Josh Sawyer singing



    And also some other stuff, but it's not as important.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  14. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign No Original Thought Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005
    Kids have shit taste in games. News at 11.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 5
  15. KingArthur

    KingArthur My Name Is Actually Arthur

    Jun 25, 2018
    I’m not even gonna bother with the Legion part, because as a Legion supporter it’s hard to be unbiased.

    As for 3 and role playing, can you name another quest besides Power of the Atom that really has an actual moral choice? Even the Tenpenny Tower quest has your choices fuckin wiped when the ghouls just kill everyone anyways.

    And the BoS don’t do things reluctantly in 3. At all. They’re literally the super heroes of the wastes. President Eden calls them “power armored Boy Scouts” to boot, and the whole reason the Brotherhood Outcasts exist is because THE MAIN BROTHERHOOD WAS PLAYING HERO.

    And the Enclave not being shoehorned in?! They fucking died in 2. Which you’d know if you finished it instead of going “I hate dated pop culture” and just quit because apparently that’s just TOO MUCH to overlook. The Enclave Remnants in NV make sense, at least. They’re older survivors of the death of their organization. The ones in 3 are a younger “new breed” that literally materializes out of fucking nowhere.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 3
  16. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign No Original Thought Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005
     
  17. Norzan

    Norzan Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2017


    I'm not gonna even bother explaining to you why 3 being above New Vegas and Fallout 2 is such utter bullshit.

    But welcome as the new "i'm gonna try to convince NMA that Fallout 3 is worth anything and claim one or more of the games they like are bad" poster.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 6
  18. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign No Original Thought Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005
    He thinks he is cool because he likes Fallout 1 first.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 3
  19. chunglord420

    chunglord420 First time out of the vault

    15
    Apr 2, 2020
    They do. IIRC, one of the characters has to BEG Elder Lyons to take back the Memorial.

    Obviously not since the Remnant exist. Is it not possible that some other "Remnants" (the ones at Raven Rock) to proclaim themselves as the new Enclave?
    Anyway, the boys at the oil rig had expanded their operations to mainland. There's Enclave bases all across America.

    Even so, the "main" Brotherhood was cut off from the rest of the BoS BECAUSE of what they did. Can there not be conflict in the BoS?
    The BoS and Enclave are not shoehorned because they are the CENTRAL factions in the game.
     
  20. chunglord420

    chunglord420 First time out of the vault

    15
    Apr 2, 2020
    Because you can't lmao.
    2 was fucking shit man you can't even TRY to help the Enclave.