Why do people think New Vegas was actually good?

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by chunglord420, Apr 2, 2020.

  1. Morgan_

    Morgan_ Duckerz

    Jul 3, 2020
    Shitpost threads and pol threads are the heavy hitters in terms of daily total. I'm posting more in fallout discussion myself moving forward.
     
  2. Sicknessoverload

    Sicknessoverload Still Mildly Glowing

    247
    Dec 28, 2020
    I'll be sure to check that out, talking about Fallout can get heated I don't even want to go near politics.
     
  3. Risewild

    Risewild Carbon Dated and Proud
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    I usually tend to rant about random stuff in the middle of my posts, I also tend to start repeating myself but in different ways... Usually ends up like a wall of text.
    It's one of the side effects of my health problems, so please don't pay any attention to it and hope it doesn't bother you.

    Although I don't post much lately due to be super busy and super tired too.
     
  4. TheodoreRoosevelt

    TheodoreRoosevelt First time out of the vault

    74
    Nov 21, 2020
    enslaving people is the only evil morality that is welcomed. Nuking megaton was so cartoonishly evil i don't see why any character would do it beyond just simply role-playing as an cartoonishly evil character. I wish there a was a quest you gather slaves for the legion though in new vegas like with a mesmatron thing and you can enslave random NPCs like Sunny Smiles or something. New Vegas definitely needs ways to lose more karma. i prefer both systems then one or the other.
     
  5. Sicknessoverload

    Sicknessoverload Still Mildly Glowing

    247
    Dec 28, 2020
    Nuking Megaton could have been fixed if Burke or Tenpenny simply said something like: "Megaton's been getting too much business, we need to make them disappear." I love your username.
     
  6. TheodoreRoosevelt

    TheodoreRoosevelt First time out of the vault

    74
    Nov 21, 2020
    i don't know i still don't like that reason in particular As well. Really the way you fix the quest is simply make it a more reasonable evil choice for the player. maybe someone pays you to go in with some talon company mercs you work with in the quest and murder everyone or slavers wishes to enslave the entire town or most of it's "named" inhabitants and turn it into a slave-trading hub. there could be relatively a lot of options for the "Power of Atom" quest completion. not just one. Lucas Simms could have you deal with these groups that threaten megaton imaybe something akin to "Ghost town gunfight" quest where you round up a bunch of megaton settlers and named npcs to fight against Talon Company or Slavers threatening the town.

    another option for the Power of Atom quest is to blow up megaton is if the Church of Atom wanted to blow it up to prove their theory on how the universe(s) are created though the Church of Atom would have to be re-located outside Megaton most likely for this to work.
     
  7. Sicknessoverload

    Sicknessoverload Still Mildly Glowing

    247
    Dec 28, 2020
    I don't think the Church of Atom idea would work but I do think the Talon would. It would be a much better way to introduce the player to the Talon Company and have a opportunity to do evil quests than take two useless perks. The same thing happens in 4, you should have had an option to finish off the Minutemen in Concord.
     
  8. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013


    Sure. For starters it's worth noting that Obsidian said the core original theme of New Vegas was "gambling" on numerous levels. Risk/Reward, uncertainty. The Forecaster defines the Courier's future as being a gamble, a big one where they "Play the hand they've been dealt".

    So, on a story structure level I think that a "definitive" version of New Vegas has to either be House or Wild Card. The way that the Platinum Chip is established, this illusive object of mystery that sets the entire storyline off and is pivotal to its first segment, and it's only actually carried to fruition in the House/Yes Man storylines. If you were constructing a definitive narrative tale of New Vegas, the Chip becoming entirely irrelevant with NCR and Legion would be poor structuring. Same thing with Victor being this mystery figure in the first part of the story, being a form of establishment/foreshadowing of other forces at play and the Securitrons. Similarly, NCR winning again or Legion winning "this time" are pretty safe odds. Vegas becoming its own faction is more of an unexpected gamble. Betting on NCR or Legion is like betting on red or black, betting on Vegas is like betting on green. Sounds like a real gamble.

    As for why I think it's Wild Card rather than House, I have several reasons. The first among these is that Yes Man is another seemingly pivotal introduction. It turns out Benny (the man who tried to kill you) actually has his own plans of grand conspiracy and is planning on pulling the completely unexpected and changing who runs the show in Vegas? One that gives the boot to all the major players all at once? One that involves a lone protege of House, equipped with the platinum chip which you now have? (Sounds like playing the hand you've been dealt, no?) How very intriguing! And then, in any other faction if this were a definitive story, this would be completely forgotten and ignored as the Courier just forgets about Yes Man and doesn't really care. So, I feel that Yes Man is the Chekov's Gun of New Vegas.

    The second among these is the Brotherhood of Steel. Personally, I think the Mojave BoS gets too much of a spotlight in the story of New Vegas with Veronica, Elijah, Christine, HELIOS ONE for them to be a faction that the Courier unceremoniously and blood-thirstily wipes out. Especially because the method of wiping them out isn't hugely well established in the narrative (i.e the keycard thing) and taking them on straight-on as a lone soldier is the actions of a meta-game god protagonist, not a fallible wasteland courier. Particularly, I think the story of Veronica with "I Could Make You Care" leading into Dead Money, and then Old World Blues provides such a strong arc of the double-edged nature of technology (its equally limitless terror, but also its potential) and clinging to the past that it would be criminal not to have it in a definitive version of Vegas.

    The third is the precedent of in-game support for it, The Followers of the Apocalypse are arguably the only dyed-in-the-wool morally good faction in all of NV, and they are supportive of Independence. Ulysses, the closest thing to the Courier's "virgil" (Of Dante's Inferno, but also DmC lmao) that offers moral judgement and introspection, the picture of an Independent Mojave seems like it's the most moral outcome. Much like the Divide, the Mojave is a place bewteen NCR and Legion, that has the limitless potential to become something of its own and better than both, but House (A ghost-like remnant of the Old World misusing technology for despotism and forcing his nostalgic obsession) is also a stranglehold. An Independent Vegas would be the truest form of redemption for what happened at the Divide.

    The fourth is the quest-structure. It involves much more travelling than House. Under Wild Card, the Courier takes a tour of the Mojave's tribes and has active motivation to do their work and garner their support. I also have the belief that such a "definitive" narrative would involve the Courier working primarily under NCR (since so much of the game's content is levied in helping NCR prepare for the dam) whilst reporting back to Yes Man in secret, only implanting him in the Lucky 38 when the NCR orders House's assassination. This way the Battle of Hoover Dam has an extra layer of suspense: The Courier's betrayal (I also think the BoS-NCR alliance is the most fitting conclusion to their arc) Something that is actually referenced in one of Hanlon's slides, and also in Oliver's dialogue. It seems to suggest that Wild Card Couriers were "playing" NCR the whole time. Playing your hand at the perfect time. New Vegas is a western story, and the third party wanderer playing all the sides off of eachother is an iconic trope.

    The last, is that the Wild Card ending is the ultimate "gamble" choice (It's even in the name.). It's symbol is Vault 21, a blackjack reference. It's an uncertain future, you're "playing the hand you've been dealt" and you don't know how it will play off. What will come of the Mojave? Will Independence flourish, or succumb to chaos? What did Yes Man mean by his "changes"? The best you can hope is that the plays you've made throughout the game to make the Mojave a better place will pay off in the bigger picture.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 2
  9. Sicknessoverload

    Sicknessoverload Still Mildly Glowing

    247
    Dec 28, 2020
    I think you're basing too much of that on a few sentences however it was a interesting read. I always thought thematically the NCR would be the best choice as another theme is to let go of your past which while the NCR is like an Old World republic, showing that not everything in the past needs to be forgotten and ignored and while it's full of problems it's a better solution than the Legion or even the Vegas factions because it has stability unlike the Legion. I actually loved how they treated the Brotherhood and Veronica's quest even if I don't like Veronica that much, it shows how fear can hold you prisoner and how you need to embrace new ideas or you won't change at all. It was a nice change of pace from the altruistic BoS of Fallout 3. And House gives a good point, in Veronica's quest if you sent her to the Followers the BoS will wipe out everyone in Old Mormon Fort based on the SUSPICION that she MIGHT tell them something about the BoS. Now, imagine what they would do with House's Vegas and Securitrons.
     
  10. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    Well yeah there is no definitive choice to New Vegas hence why the devs have kept their mouths shut on it for a decade, but that's my take. As for the BoS, Worth keeping in mind that the BoS Paladins who do that are going AWOL. McNamara doesn't order them to do that. It's obviously illustrative of greater problems that they produce people like that, but it wasn't an action of the Chapter. The peace with NCR shows to me that there is a way out, but it's just like pulling blood from a stone.
     
  11. Sicknessoverload

    Sicknessoverload Still Mildly Glowing

    247
    Dec 28, 2020
    Well, even McNamara didn't deliberately order them to do it their mentality proves my point all the same. So, can I do a Melee build in Fallout 1 as a first playthrough? Or will my Vault surely die, as I have?
     
  12. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    Wouldn't massively recommend it if it's your first rodeo in New California, but it is absolutely viable yes. Fine for your first time if you're really willing to commit yourself.
     
  13. Sicknessoverload

    Sicknessoverload Still Mildly Glowing

    247
    Dec 28, 2020
    So, you'd recommend a regular guns build? And is unarmed any good or is it like Fallout 3 where it's useless?
     
  14. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    For your first playthrough I'd recommend early game Small Guns that specs into Energy Weapons by the late game. That was how I carried myself through when I was a wee little 14 year old zoomer child back in 2013. If it's your first time, you'll want to be bullseyeing Deathclaws from a half mile off with a Plasma Rifle and not taking a hammer to them. But, if you feel like you want to really try it, go for it. It's not some kind of gimp/challenge build to do Melee.

    Unarmed is also viable but it's a lot easier in 2.
     
  15. Sicknessoverload

    Sicknessoverload Still Mildly Glowing

    247
    Dec 28, 2020
    Can't wait to do a Melee build on Fallout 1. I'm a huge Star Trek fan so I can't wait to use the Phaser in Fallout 2.
     
  16. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    Phaser is not actually in Fallout 2, it was cut IIRC
     
  17. Sicknessoverload

    Sicknessoverload Still Mildly Glowing

    247
    Dec 28, 2020
     
  18. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013


    It means "If I remember correctly." There might be a restoration mod for Fallout 2 that restores it, but even then it was only available in a rare special encounter that wasn't canon.

    Personally if you're going to do a melee build and an energy weapon build, I'd do the EW build for Fallout 1 and the melee build for F2. With the whole tribal theme of 2 I always liked making primitive characters anyway.
     
  19. Sicknessoverload

    Sicknessoverload Still Mildly Glowing

    247
    Dec 28, 2020
    Primitive? I will tennoheika banzai charge their asses until I die, don't say primitive.
     
  20. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    grug hits people with a stick, they die