Would anyone take issue with the Enclave in future games?

[Akratus]

Yeah for me it wouldn't be a problem to reintroduce them after Fallout 2, but for me Fallout 3 ruined them completely. In the next fallout game we should get completely original factions.

But, there is the possibility that Bethesda will introduce some hackneyed plot to save androids in the next game. The Androids shouldn't even exist, nobody should care about them, and it's simply making a slavery analogy in the most unsubtle way.

So if that's the alternative, I wouldn't hate a return of the enclave. But I guess both would be equally boring.

 

[Mistrz]

They did know about Chicago cause that`s where most of Zeppelins crashed.

What? They didn't knew about Vaut 0, but knew where zeppelins crashed, from what source? Magic 8 ball?

I don`t know, maybe from the wrackage of crashed Zeppelins?

Imagine BoS coming from Lost Hills to DC... and they didn't met midwestern BoS until(!) Chicago. Not in bunker Gamma or Epsilon, what proves mid BoS isn't wide and is only SMALL group in Chicago.

As for Vault 0, Caesar's Legion and it story only support above version, that mid BoS lost all it western regions.

And where did I said it is rulling whole regions?

But location of Vault 0 was deep secret

It is joke?

FT ending

The Brotherhood is quick to establish Vault 0 as its main base of operations, all though much destruction was wrought here it still represents a massive store house of knowledge and technology.
The ancient structure becomes the central hub of operations, coordinating between outposts far and near and reinforcing their supply lines and transport routes across the countryside. Ironically mimicking the original purpose of their defeated enemy.

Lost Hills was main hub of operations for BoS and really nobody knew about it.

Hidden Valley is main hub of operations located on NCR territory and they also don`t have a clue it`s there.

Vault 0 could have been easily ommited by Legion`s troops while still being fully operational base. Or it is abandoned. My point is we have no possibility to know for sure, so don`t act as you have something more then just a guess.

If mid BoS would survived, I doubt Ceasar and his poeple would miss something like that under(!) his Denver.

Also, if mid BoS would prosper, not pass away, Ceasar would say more about them, than only this one line:

Some of the Brotherhood scribes we captured further East didn't even know the name of their founder, Roger Maxson.

Cool, maybe it`s true. Or they are hidding cause Legion is massive threat and they haven`t recovered from wounds after war against machines. We don`t know. The fact is they are alive and due to different politics then original BoS they still have potential to grow big.

 

[woo1108]

I saw plate of T-45 is attached in Centrion's armor.
maybe Legion get that part from east bos
and actually, they have good enough weapon to kill bos paladin(thermic lancer, ripper, power fist, etc) and skill too.

if they appear in capital wasteland, they can break both bos and enclave. and have good reason to supported:at least they can make road safe which both bos and enclave(maybe they can though) can't.

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

Lost Hills was main hub of operations for BoS and really nobody knew about it.

Man, EVERYONE knew about Lost Hills.
Just look at Hub caravans, which were heading there, or just look at dialogues about BoS, Lost Hills wasn't secret. EVEN TOWN WAS BUILT ABOVE LOST HILL, to have protection from BoS

The most funny fact, you're using arguments without references! Man, if you want to prove something, give some evidences FROM GAMES, not "maybe it's like this, or like this". Really? Discussion can't happen like this, especially while you spreading a lot of false facts, like this one about Lost Hills... basically, I gave facts about mid BoS dying, and you're only arguments are "MAYBE NO?". Bullshit.

I don`t know, maybe from the wrackage of crashed Zeppelins?

Wreckage of Zeppelin is some kind of mountain, seen from every part of America?
To see zeppelin, they must be close to it, like tens of meter, and same thing apply for Vault 0...
Also, some zeppelin crashed at Osceolla, but they still talking only about Chicago, because it's place where they met mid BoS, which was SMALL.

And where did I said it is rulling whole regions?

You said it can rule more than Chicago, there is 0 evidences for it.

Cool, maybe it`s true. Or they are hidding cause Legion is massive threat and they haven`t recovered from wounds after war against machines.

FAR EAST What is there hard to understand? And no, you can't hide:
" the central hub of operations, coordinating between outposts far and near and reinforcing their supply lines and transport routes across the countryside."
Especially to great Legion's scouts like Twisted Hairs for example.

The fact is they are alive and due to different politics then original BoS they still have potential to grow big.

Faction, which was once powerfull and now is just loosing and dying haven't potential to grow big again... (unless like Enclave from FO3 or BoS from FO3, but we are not taking insane Bethesda style plots into account.)

 

[Mistrz]

First of all chill man, we are talking no need to be rude. Ok. I was wrong about lost hills. Still hidden valley is secret. Cesar and legion did ture some scribes. That's all. They were most likely from midwestern bos and that's all we know about it from F:nv. It's not much info and saying that bos is dead based on those informations is jumping to conclusion. F3 is bad source but still based on info in it what we can say for sure is they encountered mid bos in Chicago. Still saying there is no more mid bos is jumping to conclusion.

 

[DarkCorp]

Just looked at the wiki info on bos and yea, it is assumed that the entire chapter of BoS had been eliminated. Enclave in Chicago really wouldn't waste resources in a futile war against a numerically superior foe hundreds of miles away.

Meh, I have always liked the idea of some badass lost technology faction in any PA literature or movies, so it kind of stinks to see Fallout essentially end with the NCR taking over everything, peace brought back to the wastelands, etc.

Well it was a good ride.

 

[Walpknut]

There are still lots of unexplored places in wasteland.

 

[mevernore]

No more Enclave, no more Brotherhood of Steel. They've both been milked to death, it's exhausting.

 

[Oppen]

First of all chill man, we are talking no need to be rude. Ok. I was wrong about lost hills. Still hidden valley is secret. Cesar and legion did ture some scribes. That's all. They were most likely from midwestern bos and that's all we know about it from F:nv. It's not much info and saying that bos is dead based on those informations is jumping to conclusion. F3 is bad source but still based on info in it what we can say for sure is they encountered mid bos in Chicago. Still saying there is no more mid bos is jumping to conclusion.

Fallout 3 is (sadly) canon.
And I believe NCR knows about Hidden Valley, don't they ask you to kill them if you do the NCR end quests?

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

Nope, NCR didn't knew about Hidden Valley.

But comparison of Hidden Valley, which has special camouflage systems and almost no one is entering/going out to the capital of big empire, which was "central hub of operations, coordinating between outposts far and near and reinforcing their supply lines and transport routes across the countryside" is madness.

Or rather Mistrz haven't any logic arguments, and must use like this, completely pointless...

 

[Mistrz]

Pointless discussion is pointless. Now I know I`m not able to convince you we have no possible way to judge strenght of mid bos. When I say they may have more bases of operations then bunker in chicago I here they are not having empire cause legion would notice. I don`t know why they would have empire etc. in first place but it dosent metter.

 

[DarkCorp]

In for the republic part 2, Colonel Moore? sends the pc out to destroy the facility but a peace can be negotiated if the pc has high enough rep with BoS.

 

[Oppen]

In for the republic part 2, Colonel Moore? sends the pc out to destroy the facility but a peace can be negotiated if the pc has high enough rep with BoS.

The point is, do Colonel Moore knows that the BoS is there? If so, NCR obviously knows of Hidden Valley. Or is it the Courier who has to find out?

 

[woo1108]

The problem isn't about where the Bos is but the problem is how to infiltrate and sabotage base. for lock 100, it can only be openned by lock picking master and threre's too little people to do it. but openning it is just solving a little part of it. the real problem is how to defete Bos. NCR can use ranger to infilterate aand sabotage it but Bos has great security and there's little chance to ranger to infilterate(since Bos don't open the door not untill their member come)and survive.

But for Courier there's lots of way to go inside and sabotage safely: get in by favor of Veronica or loot from corpse of Bos palladin, gain their faith, know how to sabotage it by collecting information.

so it wouldn' be strange to Moore to command you to do that not with her's soldiers even she already knows where the Bos hide.

 

[Oppen]

Nah, the point was if it was plaussible that the midwestern BoS hides a number of people enough to make a shot against the NCR worthy, and Lost Hills and Hidden Valley were used as examples. And both were public knowledge, so they are invalid as evidence they can.
Hidden Valley is actually just the bunch who survived, and the NCR knows of their presence, it seems.

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

Oppen, if you say they know GIVE SOME REFERENCES!
Especially, when I said "Nope, NCR didn't knew about Hidden Valley." and you again saying that they knew, they did NOT.

Cassandra Moore: "After the battle, we consolidated our hold on the plant before pursuing our enemies. It was a mistake, to be sure, but there wasn't really any place for them to go. When we finally gave chase, however, they had simply vanished. Some of our people think they had some means of conveyance, like the vertibirds the Enclave used, and hightailed it out of here. I think that they found someplace to hide close to HELIOS, and never went that far at all. Any other questions?"

It was a crushing victory, but no one's heard a peep from the Brotherhood since. Most people assume the Brotherhood is scattered and not a threat.

Recently we've had scouts go missing in an area west of HELIOS, and I'm concerned that the Brotherhood is involved.

I want you to find them, and once you do, finish them for good. Any questions?

You played even FNV?
No, NCR for most time didn't even knew that BoS survived around Mojave, and later, they didn't knew, where BoS was hiding.

 

[woo1108]

A ranger hide in side one of bunker of hidden valley didn't know about BOS.

Cassandra Moore: "After the battle, we consolidated our hold on the plant before pursuing our enemies. It was a mistake, to be sure, but there wasn't really any place for them to go. When we finally gave chase, however, they had simply vanished. Some of our people think they had some means of conveyance, like the vertibirds the Enclave used, and hightailed it out of here. I think that they found someplace to hide close to HELIOS, and never went that far at all. Any other questions?"

I didn't remember that because I just ignored what Moore that bitcx says.

 

[Scribe Kortum]

They're pretty much disbanded or at least through most of the states. I personally like the Enclave, they're tough (especially early on) and to have the remnants help fight the Legion or NCR was great to have by my side. If anything, let them be the center plot point but not around anymore. Such as trying to continue where they left off but with control in certain areas that can make a better difference to the wasteland in the good guys' hands in the next game as opposed to the Enclave's hands. Perhaps let us loot and explore old Enclave bases and find out what they were up to that wasn't covered in older games.

 

[Oppen]

Oppen, if you say they know GIVE SOME REFERENCES!
Especially, when I said "Nope, NCR didn't knew about Hidden Valley." and you again saying that they knew, they did NOT.

Cool down, man.
I asked, and when you told me, I believed you. Then, there was this post:

In for the republic part 2, Colonel Moore? sends the pc out to destroy the facility but a peace can be negotiated if the pc has high enough rep with BoS.

Then, I answered, again, asking if you are sent to find out who's there or if they already know, and the answer I got was this:

The problem isn't about where the Bos is but the problem is how to infiltrate and sabotage base. for lock 100, it can only be openned by lock picking master and threre's too little people to do it. but openning it is just solving a little part of it. the real problem is how to defete Bos. NCR can use ranger to infilterate aand sabotage it but Bos has great security and there's little chance to ranger to infilterate(since Bos don't open the door not untill their member come)and survive.

But for Courier there's lots of way to go inside and sabotage safely: get in by favor of Veronica or loot from corpse of Bos palladin, gain their faith, know how to sabotage it by collecting information.

so it wouldn' be strange to Moore to command you to do that not with her's soldiers even she already knows where the Bos hide.

With this, would you rather assume they do not know, or that they do?
Because this sounds like they do know, the "the problem isn't about where the BoS is" sounds a lot like "they already know where the BoS is". And you didn't give any references either to prove your point before this post. I looked for it at the time, couldn't find anything to clarify this, so I had to just interpret the posts here and take them as valid data.

About if I played NV, yes, I did, but didn't pay attention what Moore had to say on this quest because I had already decided to go diplomatic with the BoS (I found the bunker a lot of time before I started for the republic quest, and I liked the idea of get them the good ending).

 

[BonusWaffle]

I just did an ncr playthrough and moore says they think that brotherhood are hiding somewhere near helios one, but thats all that they know.