Xbox World 360 article

Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude said:
I thought it did. Sure it wasn't a Tolkien novel, but it had a decent die-system under the hood along with some interesting quests.


In Morrowind you actually had to read the quests (which were often interesting and contributed to the story, although there were plenty of UPS runs as well) as opposed to spam clicking the first option and following the pretty red arrow to your destination.

Many locations were VERY difficult to find, and exploring the map was very rewarding. In Oblivion if it isn't marked on the map from the start; it doesn't matter, and is nothing more than a generic goblin/vampire/bandit/skeleton cave/fort/ruin with the same loot as everywhere else.


In Morrowind you start off as a weak adventurer, but develop into an epic hero over time. Good equipment is rare, and finding a legendary item is a huge deal. Leveling is actually rewarding.

In Oblivion EVERYTHING levels with you. You're punished by doing quests early because you'll get an inferior reward that you're stuck with for the rest of the game. You're punished for clearing dungeons early because all of the loot is scaled for low-level players. You're punished for leveling, because for every level you gain, every enemy gains one as well (and their gear automatically improves). When you hit level 20 and notice every bandit running around in full glass/daedric armor, you might as well just stop playing right there.


There is a bunch more I'd like to type, but I'm freaking exhausted at the moment.

I couldn't agree more. While the story in Morrowind wasn't anything that will win a Hugo or Nebula award, it was still interesting, and meshed in very well with the pre-existing Elder Scrolls lore. MW is a game that I still play to this day, and enjoy immensely.

I enjoyed how in MW finding one of the two sets of Daedric armour actually meant something, as there were only two complete sets of this high powered gear in the entire game.

Oblivion's retarded levelling system meant that after a while, bandits would end up wearing full sets of high level armour, which made no sense at all.

This article does put a damper on my own enthusiasm for FO3. I've been trying to keep an open mind, but this particular article has made me begin to wonder.

---

Edit: as for Planescape, yes, I run it under DOSBox. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planescape_torment it was designed to run under Windows 95/98, which was still DOS based. Give it a try.
 
Fallout 3 is a true Fallout game

Fallout 3 is Oblivion 2.

PICK ONE!!!! You can't be both.

Seriously though. I don't even know where to start to pick this thing apart. Jeez.

The fact that people buy into this, would read that article and think "Wow!! this game sounds awesome!!!" makes me shake my head in disgust.

And whoever called Todd Howard a genius....needs their heads checked as well. I've never heard him say anything remotely close to an intelligent statement.
 
rcorporon said:
Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude said:
I thought it did. Sure it wasn't a Tolkien novel, but it had a decent die-system under the hood along with some interesting quests.


In Morrowind you actually had to read the quests (which were often interesting and contributed to the story, although there were plenty of UPS runs as well) as opposed to spam clicking the first option and following the pretty red arrow to your destination.

Many locations were VERY difficult to find, and exploring the map was very rewarding. In Oblivion if it isn't marked on the map from the start; it doesn't matter, and is nothing more than a generic goblin/vampire/bandit/skeleton cave/fort/ruin with the same loot as everywhere else.


In Morrowind you start off as a weak adventurer, but develop into an epic hero over time. Good equipment is rare, and finding a legendary item is a huge deal. Leveling is actually rewarding.

In Oblivion EVERYTHING levels with you. You're punished by doing quests early because you'll get an inferior reward that you're stuck with for the rest of the game. You're punished for clearing dungeons early because all of the loot is scaled for low-level players. You're punished for leveling, because for every level you gain, every enemy gains one as well (and their gear automatically improves). When you hit level 20 and notice every bandit running around in full glass/daedric armor, you might as well just stop playing right there.


There is a bunch more I'd like to type, but I'm freaking exhausted at the moment.

I couldn't agree more. While the story in Morrowind wasn't anything that will win a Hugo or Nebula award, it was still interesting, and meshed in very well with the pre-existing Elder Scrolls lore. MW is a game that I still play to this day, and enjoy immensely.

I enjoyed how in MW finding one of the two sets of Daedric armour actually meant something, as there were only two complete sets of this high powered gear in the entire game.

Oblivion's retarded levelling system meant that after a while, bandits would end up wearing full sets of high level armour, which made no sense at all.

This article does put a damper on my own enthusiasm for FO3. I've been trying to keep an open mind, but this particular article has made me begin to wonder.

---

Edit: as for Planescape, yes, I run it under DOSBox. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planescape_torment it was designed to run under Windows 95/98, which was still DOS based. Give it a try.

That is bizarre and makes no fucking sense. I can't run Gabriel Knight on DOSBox (the CD version) because it is a Windows 95 executable. The same goes for PS:T.
You sure you didn't make a mistake?

Also, Morrowind has as much depth as my left toenail and I just clipped that son of a bitch. I see nothing spectacular about the game, it has more depth than Oblivion perhaps, but it's still the same brainless drivel that the series was degenerating into.
What's so good about locations being hard to find? That sounds like a big fat negative to me, there should definitely be some exploration in order to provide a sense of satisfaction, but saying that difficulty in looking for things is a virtue is unusual, people like exploring levels to find secrets in a game for example, but they don't like looking high and low for some frustratingly obscurely hidden exit.

Quite frankly, the game is boring and dull, and the quests are no more interesting than Oblivion's, in fact, they're quite more generic. The game was better in certain regards but worse in others, they're both bad games in my opinion, with their minor discrepancies. Yeah, Oblivion's leveling sucks, but in Morrowind leveling is just as dull because there are so few skills and boosting the ones you have as your major/minor skills just serves to inch you along.

Daggerfall circumvented that by making it incredibly difficult for you to level skills that you did not choose as your primaries, while the ones you did pick developed quickly and efficiently, leveling made more sense in relation to progressing your character. In Morrowind it's just a slow ride to maxing out your character. Certainly a fighter won't have as much magic as a caster, but in the end he's still going to be able to fling around spells and use nearly any type of armor or weaponry.

That'll never happen in Daggerfall. As far as it goes for me, Bethesda was trying to do in Morrowind with what they eventually did in Oblivion they were just overcame with their own excuse of "technological limitation".

Please note Morrowind's previews and pre-release hype. It was the same junk about graphics, AI, broken promises and major dissapointments. There was nothing separating the aura of that game's release from Oblivion, I just think people weren't as largely engrossed in it back then as they tend to be right now because western RPGs hadn't really eeked onto consoles yet like they did now.
 
Eyenixon said:
That is bizarre and makes no fucking sense. I can't run Gabriel Knight on DOSBox (the CD version) because it is a Windows 95 executable. The same goes for PS:T.
You sure you didn't make a mistake?

Also, Morrowind has as much depth as my left toenail and I just clipped that son of a bitch. I see nothing spectacular about the game, it has more depth than Oblivion perhaps, but it's still the same brainless drivel that the series was degenerating into.
What's so good about locations being hard to find? That sounds like a big fat negative to me, there should definitely be some exploration in order to provide a sense of satisfaction, but saying that difficulty in looking for things is a virtue is unusual, people like exploring levels to find secrets in a game for example, but they don't like looking high and low for some frustratingly obscurely hidden exit.

Quite frankly, the game is boring and dull, and the quests are no more interesting than Oblivion's, in fact, they're quite more generic. The game was better in certain regards but worse in others, they're both bad games in my opinion, with their good and bad. Yeah, Oblivion's leveling sucks, but in Morrowind leveling is just as dull because there are so few skills and boosting the ones you have as your major/minor skills just serves to inch you along.

Daggerfall circumvented that by making it incredibly difficult for you to level skills that you did not choose as your primaries, while the ones you did pick developed quickly and efficiently, leveling made more sense in relation to progressing your character. In Morrowind it's just a slow rode to maxing out your character. Certainly a fighter won't have as much magic as a caster, but in the end he's still going to be able to fling around spells and use nearly any type of armor or weaponry.

That'll never happen in Daggerfall. As far as it goes for me, Bethesda was trying to do in Morrowind with what they eventually did in Oblivion they were just overcame with their own excuse of "technological limitation".

Please note Morrowind's previews and pre-release hype. It was the same junk about graphics, AI, broken promises and major dissapointments. There was nothing separating the aura of that game's release from Oblivion, I just think people weren't as largely engrossed in it back then as they tend to be right now because western RPGs hadn't really eeked onto consoles yet like they did now.

You make it sound as if you're a fan of Daggerfall?
 
Daggerfall was a buggy piece of shit that tore my PC to shreds but somehow I enjoyed it even though it had its problems.

Morrowind and Oblivion are the opposites, pretty functional things that are just eternally dull and subtly broken.
Daggerfall had its heart in the right place, something that the modern Bethesda cannot say for itself without deceitfulness.
 
Eyenixon said:
Daggerfall was a buggy piece of shit that tore my PC to shreds but somehow I enjoyed it even though it had its problems.

Morrowind and Oblivion are the opposites, pretty functional things that are just eternally dull and subtly broken.
Daggerfall had its heart in the right place, something that the modern Bethesda cannot say for itself without deceitfulness.

Ah, good - I've seen some folks come along, often at TESF, decrying Morrowind and Oblivion yet praising Daggerfall without acknowledging its flaws. It frustrates me. Would've been cool if they had of implemented a lot of the cut features (being able to use language skills to converse with and befriend creatures, incite wars between nations, having actual conversations with NPCs so they actually serve as more than a walking direction sign) and of course done some decent bug-testing before release. Daggerfall had a lot of concepts going for it that Bethesda seem to have forgotten since then. I recall the game manual even had a section on "role-playing" advice, nowadays all you see in your 16-page booklet are tips on how to walk, run and shoot/swing.
 
Per said:
"Hi, we're the Alpha Sections."

"Join the Alpha Sections in fighting the DomZ, and rooting out the IRIS Network conspirators."

radnan said:
* An example of bleak humour: one house contains two skeletons hugging each other on a burnt-out carpet, a couple who died when the bombs fell.

Humour ? Where ?

*snicker* They were...doin' it...*snicker* How could you possibly get more funny than that?

* The yellow, even "banana-coloured" super mutants go around kidnapping humans.

Banana orcs, look out!!! (he's got that nabbin' look in his eyes!)

bananaman%20el.png
 
horst said:
the fact that you KNOW this game speaks volumes.

I know all and see all.

edit@radio: from which i know, radio stations need a LOT of energy for maintaining service. so, a message looping for 200 years, receivable for almost anybody in range, raises so many questions i am no longer worried about my fat ass. ofc, the enclave wouldve traced it. or some gangbangers wouldve destroyed it etc etc

homersmash2oq6.png
 
Yellow said:
I think a better version of "bleak humor" would be stumbling upon a classroom with 30 skeletons hiding beneath the desks.

I'm appalled that I'm the only person yet to respond to your idea; it's brilliant. Awesome irony, great job.

But of course Bethesda cherishes the lives of children above all other principles, so we'll never see it in FO3.

I can't stand Oblivion, but Morrowind still interests me, however solely as a timesink which I would only indulge in perhaps 1-3 hours a month. I just haven't had the time to get XBox-compatible mods sorted for it, and I don't want to start it until I do. I couldn't stand the computer version because the Wiki-dialogue font was so small on my high resolution screen that it was a chore to read through. If there were a mod to increase its size, I'd try it again on the PC perhaps. As for the merits of the game itself, there was little that I was impressed by apart from the sense of exploration and the difficulty of acquiring sufficient funds to buy nifty shit.

That having been said, I like Daggerfall in most regards, but I've a heck of a time finding my way around - because the graphics are necessarily in low detail and much pixelated, it's hard for me to really tell if I'm going somewhere I haven't yet been - or somewhere I want to go in any case.

But back to the topic -

Somehow, I hadn't heard that there was going to be a lockpicking minigame in FO3 - I had thought Beth would get rid of it. Odd, isn't it, how they acknowledge the problem with level-scaling, but then stubbornly cling to other mechanics and designs that received just as much criticism from players? Not to mention that everyone hates similar minigames in other action-RPG's too...

The fact that Beth's "core" for FO3 consisted of visceral gunfighting ought to immediately betray their true aim for the game. Todd is quite sensitive about the lack of "action" in his last two TES games, and, still carrying a torch for his Terminator days, is doing his utmost to impress in that regard with FO3.

Skill affecting damage is the least logical effect possible. Reloading, rate of fire, accuracy or stability (that is, accuracy over the course of bursts or full-auto fire, or the extent of recoil or "kick" after a single shot) rate of deterioration or repair, etc., all would've made some sense, and I do think I recall reading somewhere before that skill will in fact have a slight effect on a few of those categories. But, judging from the interviews and Q&A, by far the greatest affect of skill is to damage, which is just ludicrous.

I think that the fact that they had to resort to this particular mechanic is a good indication that the combat system is shallow; that is, because of the FPS-style controls, combat is so "easy" now (as compared to stat-checks and random rolls) that the only way they could make stats of some value was to cause those stats to relate directly to one's capacity for lethality in the terms of the classical mechanics of FPS gameplay. Meaning, where Deus Ex 1 strayed from FPS mechanics for the sake of RPG-like influence, FO3 is tending instead to use RPG influences to exaggerate otherwise unaltered FPS mechanics.

We already know, for example, that by bringing up your ironsights you will negate almost entirely any penalty to accuracy (strange that in so many interviews that fact is neglected). I suppose this is Bethesda's way of "doing what they think is cool" from STALKER - but it breaks their system, as has been pointed out before. If they're QA team could play through the game without using VATS, then it can't possibly be as "hard" to do so as Todd insists. This means that VATS is just candy, just show, hardly a combat equalizer. And because Beth insists of maintaining FPS control and feel, there's nothing else for stats to have a big effect on apart from damage, which turns skill into little more than a constant-effect damage powerup.

"Bethesda settled on a system where your level considerably affects damage but only marginally affects accuracy. At low levels your bullet spread is larger than you'd find in a regular first-person shoot-'em-up, but as you grow, your accuracy will sharpen and your death-dealing power will increase."

How can anyone write, in a mere two sentences, two sentiments diverging so extremely? At first, the effect on accuracy is downplayed as much as possible and, when taken in combination with other information we've been given, seems to assure us that accuracy will not be significantly affected. In the second, however, it is the exact opposite that stressed - but in the terms constituted by the preceding statement, it has no foundation; it is preemptively negated. And yet there it is - conceived, written and printed. Mind-boggling...

Again and again, I see Todd delighting in malign glee at the fact that FO3 will consist of hundreds upon hundreds of gory cutscenes in the form of VATS. What kind of human intellect could possibly be entertained by that sort of thing, when repeated on the timescale and at the intensity that he indicates it will be? Astonishing...

"Another example of bleak humour: in an unopened post box you can find a letter informing the receiver they weren't selected for the vault programme."

Another NMAite writes that it would be funnier and more ironic if the letter said that they HAD been accepted. I propose that it would be even funnier still had the letter apologized for the "delay in the mailing system" -- and been clutched in the hand of a skeleton in a tattered bathrobe.

Finally, I can't fathom how the defenders of Bethesda can still rationalize the direction being taken for FO3 on the basis of "technological upgrades" and "modernization" when every single statement from Bethesda makes it abundantly clear that they did not approach the development of FO3 from the standpoint of how to improve on the Fallout series' own qualities, characteristics and mechanics, but instead wholly with the notion of squeezing FO3 into the conventions, restraints and systems of Bethesda's own most recent games. By definition, it is not an upgrade, but rather a conversion.

Please smoke pipe tobacco; the industry needs your patronage.
 
Decorating your home - it is something extremely stupid.It would've fit into GTA, but Fallout, hey. It's ridiculous.
And does that mean you'll be able to get some home?
 
While the idea of getting a house might not be so bad, you could have some similar in Van Buren, the whole 'dressing up' is definitely a console thing, plus its pretty stupid.

Would be more interesting if you could get a workshop or laboratory where you can put weapons, armor, devices or various chems together.
 
Kyuu said:
Jarf said:
Even if they annouced that they were removing all RPG elements and turning it into a pure FPS I would still buy it because it's Fallout 3 and not a spin-off.
Perhaps you should try looking up the definition of what a spin-off is instead of just going "oh well they say it's a true sequel so it must be true!"

MrBumble said:
Jarf said:
At least they're honest I suppose.

Even if they annouced that they were removing all RPG elements and turning it into a pure FPS I would still buy it because it's Fallout 3 and not a spin-off.

How exactly is it not a spin-off ? Because the little 3 says so ?

Yes, because they now own the franchise and are making the third. It might not be made by the same people and it is surely spinning wildly away from its roots but it is the next iteration of Fallout and not a spin-off.

And whilst you're at it go cry me a river.
 
Jarf said:
Yes, because they now own the franchise and are making the third. It might not be made by the same people and it is surely spinning wildly away from its roots but it is the next iteration of Fallout and not a spin-off.

Sure, technically, that's true.

On the other hand, the "3" on the end does not magically make this a more satisfying extension of the series than Fallout Tactics was. Replacing Tactics with 3 would not magically make Tactics a satiety sequel, nor will it do the same for this FPSRPG.

But sure, technically and legally, it's a sequel, not a spin-off.
 
Brother None said:
But sure, technically and legally, it's a sequel, not a spin-off.

That's what we have to come to terms with, the reality of it all.

This is Fallout 3 in its only form.

But if it is based on the same engine as Oblivion then I would expect a "Classic Fallout" mod in a couple of months.
 
That's what we have to come to terms with, the reality of it all.

This is Fallout 3 in its only form.

The reality is that Fallout 3 in its only form was cancelled in 2003.
 
Ausir said:
The reality is that Fallout 3 in its only form was cancelled in 2003.

Well, and before that, at least once.

How very unlike you to say this, Ausir. At least, to my memory.
 
Well, and before that, at least once.

How very unlike you to say this, Ausir. At least, to my memory.

I never concealed the fact that I think VB was the real Fallout 3.

Mikael Grizzly said:
You see, Ausir needs to yap how great Bethesda is

Huh?
 
Bethesda said:
"We've had a focus test to see how well our tutorials were working, and in the initial run-through we forgot to tutorial VATS. People were playing without even knowing it existed and they just played it as a first-person shooter. That's reassuring."
Or incredibly depressing, depending on your point of view.

It's Fallout! It's Oblivion! It's Fallout! It's Oblivion! It's both! Who knows anymore?
 
"The initial design for VATS was the following pitch I made to people: "I don't know how it starts, but the end of it looks like Burnout's Crash Mode, but with body parts," Todd explains, with a gigantic grin. "We wanted them to be able to go into a room and go boom, boom, boom, boom and see views of their character blowing guys away from crazy angles."

This can't be pandering to a semi-retarded audience, I believe the man actually thinks this way..
 
Jarf said:
But if it is based on the same engine as Oblivion then I would expect a "Classic Fallout" mod in a couple of months.

Which is one of the reasons I am looking forward to this game more then I would otherwise, they have gotten a significant amount of the art and world design right in my opinion (except for the creature design), and with a sufficiently devoted modding community it is likely to be vastly improved. That is why any design based issues I have with the game not as important as they would be otherwise.
 
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